QF Upgrades

[goldy]

...

Dont get me started on QF upgrades...... but allowing N and O class upgrades is long overdue, despite my reservations that they probably never clear on such low fare classes. a Q for the more learned members, Is there really that much difference in upgrading an O class Vs a Y class? The same empty J seat gets filled and the same amount of points gets deducted. This seems same-same to me...but I could be missing something.....

 

[medhead]

Qantas Upgrades

Dont get me started on QF upgrades...... but allowing N and O class upgrades is long overdue, despite my reservations that they probably never clear on such low fare classes. a Q for the more learned members, Is there really that much difference in upgrading an O class Vs a Y class? The same empty J seat gets filled and the same amount of points gets deducted. This seems same-same to me...but I could be missing something.....

Actually more points are required to upgrade a discount economy fare. There is also the difference in the cost if the fare, which can be vast.

 

[NM]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

Dont get me started on QF upgrades...... but allowing N and O class upgrades is long overdue, despite my reservations that they probably never clear on such low fare classes. a Q for the more learned members, Is there really that much difference in upgrading an O class Vs a Y class? The same empty J seat gets filled and the same amount of points gets deducted. This seems same-same to me...but I could be missing something.....

It makes a sidderence to Qantas! If people can reliably purchase a N or O fare and upgrade to business class, then that is what they will do. If they have to purchase a more expensive fare in order to upgrade, then QF can earn more revenue from people wanting to play the upgrade roulette game.

For Qantas, its not about letting a business class seat go empty. Its about protecting the revenue of business class fares by making upgrades "unreliable". That way people who believe the have to travel in the business class cabin will purchase a business class fare rather than purchasing an economy fare with a high expectation they will be able to upgrade with the pointstey have earned through frequent spending.

Just look at some other aairlines and you will notice that the premium cabins are full up premium status passengers who have been upgraded. They have purchased an econpmy fare knowing they can get the upgrade - often confirmed at the time of booking. So in that case why on earth would they spend the $$$ for a purchased premium cabin seat?

While I am as frustrated as anyone with playing the upgrade waitlist game (yes, I have an upgrade spinning on the waitlist roulette wheel at the moment), I can understand Qantas's business process in protecting their premium cabin revenues. For my upgrade waitlist flight I have a paid Premium Economy fare and waitlisted for business class (I only do this for overnight long-haul flights). So at least if the upgrade is not successful I know I have a PE seat reserved. If I knew I could score the upgrade, especially if able to confirm at the time of booking, I would have purchased a cheap discount economy fare. So in my case, Qantas's upgrade policy has ensured they received a PE fare rather than a discount economy fare (and my upgrade, if successful, will cost me less QFF points).

 

[goldy]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

Actually more points are required to upgrade a discount economy fare. There is also the difference in the cost if the fare, which can be vast.

Again, If more points are required, then that can only be a good thing for the airline. The $ difference in the cost of fare is IMO, moot. Once the door is about to be closed, that J seat is worth $0. Why an airline doesn't want to make some $$ on it, by allowing a FF to redeeem some points to sit in an empty seat with catering that has in all likely hood already been loaded and paid for, just doesn't make sense to me. As another member has posted, he has very little trouble upgrading trans tasman on NZ, and IMO this generates an enormous amount of customer good will which equals more bookings, more $$ and so it continues......Very short sighted on QF's part, but at least they have finally rectified it!

 

[medhead]

Again, If more points are required, then that can only be a good thing for the airline. The $ difference in the cost of fare is IMO, moot. Once the door is about to be closed, that J seat is worth $0. Why an airline doesn't want to make some $$ on it, by allowing a FF to redeeem some points to sit in an empty seat with catering that has in all likely hood already been loaded and paid for, just doesn't make sense to me. As another member has posted, he has very little trouble upgrading trans tasman on NZ, and IMO this generates an enormous amount of customer good will which equals more bookings, more $$ and so it continues......Very short sighted on QF's part, but at least they have finally rectified it!

As has been mentioned they make more money selling their business seats at business prices and also by selling more expensive seats down the back to those willing to play upgrade roulette.

 

[markis10]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

Again, If more points are required, then that can only be a good thing for the airline. The $ difference in the cost of fare is IMO, moot. Once the door is about to be closed, that J seat is worth $0.

No, the empty seat is very much of value, in terms of having somewhere to move to for a seat that has US IFE or other issues, which is often the case. It also has value in terms if not giving people more than they pay for, so there is no future expectation that booking Y will get J, thereby reducing the perceived value of J fares and paid upgrades. Can you imagine a paid J customer not getting what they paid for?

 

[goldy]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

It makes a sidderence to Qantas! If people can reliably purchase a N or O fare and upgrade to business class, then that is what they will do. If they have to purchase a more expensive fare in order to upgrade, then QF can earn more revenue from people wanting to play the upgrade roulette game.

Did anyone actually buy more expensive fares so that they could play they upgrade roulette? And why now include N and O fares in the roulette if that was their intention??

For Qantas, its not about letting a business class seat go empty. Its about protecting the revenue of business class fares by making upgrades "unreliable". That way people who believe the have to travel in the business class cabin will purchase a business class fare rather than purchasing an economy fare with a high expectation they will be able to upgrade with the pointstey have earned through frequent spending.

IMO, the fact remains that if you want J, you pay for it. I have no issue with QF limiting the number of upgrade seats on any given flight, or making the process "unreliable" for flyers, so that they cant "rely" on it, but flatly refusing to allow an upgrade listing, when your competitors do so, is somewhat misguided

Just look at some other aairlines and you will notice that the premium cabins are full up premium status passengers who have been upgraded. They have purchased an econpmy fare knowing they can get the upgrade - often confirmed at the time of booking. So in that case why on earth would they spend the $$$ for a purchased premium cabin seat?

I never suggested they follow AA's upgrade process and no one is suggesting confirmed upgrades. I know AA sell YUPP's etc, but IMO, Its only those who want J but dont want to or cant pay for it that would play the roulette. If it clears, great. If it doesn't, bad luck.

While I am as frustrated as anyone with playing the upgrade waitlist game (yes, I have an upgrade spinning on the waitlist roulette wheel at the moment), I can understand Qantas's business process in protecting their premium cabin revenues. For my upgrade waitlist flight I have a paid Premium Economy fare and waitlisted for business class (I only do this for overnight long-haul flights). So at least if the upgrade is not successful I know I have a PE seat reserved. If I knew I could score the upgrade, especially if able to confirm at the time of booking, I would have purchased a cheap discount economy fare. So in my case, Qantas's upgrade policy has ensured they received a PE fare rather than a discount economy fare (and my upgrade, if successful, will cost me less QFF points).

Would you have actually paid for a J seat on this flight??
Paying for an upgrade with points still means you've paid for the class of service you're receiving. No one is suggesting you get something for nothing!
I personally have never booked an O fare "expecting" to get the upgrade, but when/if I do get it, im very happy about it. When I dont get it, it doesnt matter, because I never really had it in the first place, and I still get what I actually paid for.

 

[goldy]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

No, the empty seat is very much of value, in terms of having somewhere to move to for a seat that has US IFE or other issues, which is often the case. It also has value in terms if not giving people more than they pay for, so there is no future expectation that booking Y will get J, thereby reducing the perceived value of J fares and paid upgrades. Can you imagine a paid J customer not getting what they paid for?

Im either stupid or missing something here......

I Dont think you can have it both ways. On one hand your saying that an airline should keep empty J seats on the off chance of an IFE going US (as an example) but then talk about not giving people more than what they paid for. NO ONE has suggested giving people more than what they paid for. Youd have paid for the upgrade with points, which they allow you to do.

I also doubt that any reasonable person would book Y with the expectation that somehow magically it turns into a J.

The empty J seat cannot be more valuable than improving your customer relations by allowing your FF's to enjoy a little extra luxury at no real cost to you, with the added benefit of reducing your FF point liabilities (ie: the customer burns points on a product/service that is about to become worthless. for example, if a J upgrade costs 50,000 points and a BBQ in the FF store also costs 50,000 points, which one do you think would cost QF more to provide? the BBQ or the J seat that was going empty anyway? It must be the J seat cos that is worth $8000 and the BBQ is only $500. yeah right!!)

 

[goldy]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

As has been mentioned they make more money selling their business seats at business prices and also by selling more expensive seats down the back to those willing to play upgrade roulette.

So sell as many J seats as you like. i dont have a problem with that. whatever you dont sell, come the time to close the doors, why not flog them off at the published FF rate to those that want them? As for the more expensive Y fare classes, why then do a backflip and allow the lower fares?

This thread has gone way off topic, so can we please bring it back to the cleanliness of Qantas aircraft??

 

[nlagalle]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

Did anyone actually buy more expensive fares so that they could play they upgrade roulette? And why now include N and O fares in the roulette if that was their intention??

N and O are not upgradable on INT legs only DOM. that was the recent change. these fares currently are not upgradable for INT flights, unless you get an email offer from QF, which I have had before..

Nick

 

[goldy]

Re: Does Qantas maintain its aircraft??

N and O are not upgradable on INT legs only DOM. that was the recent change. these fares currently are not upgradable for INT flights, unless you get an email offer from QF, which I have had before..

Nick

I did not know it was only domestic. Thanks for that.

But can we get back on topic now??

 

[medhead]

Did anyone actually buy more expensive fares so that they could play they upgrade roulette? And why now include N and O fares in the roulette if that was their intention??

yes people do buy more expensive fares to enter the upgrade lotto.

Upgrades are not available for international flights from N and O class. Only for domestic and those are confirmed at time of booking.

. for example, if a J upgrade costs 50,000 points and a BBQ in the FF store also costs 50,000 points, which one do you think would cost QF more to provide? the BBQ or the J seat that was going empty anyway? It must be the J seat cos that is worth $8000 and the BBQ is only $500. yeah right!!)

The points values and costs when doing redemptions are around 0.88 cents per point. If making a cash copayment with an ASA it cost about 0.95 cents per point not used. The cash copayment option on the range of BBQs (to use your example) give a value of 0.67 to 0.73 cents per point. In terms of profit to be made by qantas I believe anything purchase via the QFF store is a much better proposition for qantas.

 

[Awesom Andy]

The points values and costs when doing redemptions are around 0.88 cents per point. If making a cash copayment with an ASA it cost about 0.95 cents per point not used. The cash copayment option on the range of BBQs (to use your example) give a value of 0.67 to 0.73 cents per point. In terms of profit to be made by qantas I believe anything purchase via the QFF store is a much better proposition for qantas.

That's pretty much on the spot, I think. Although, while generally it is very poor value to use points in the QFF store in the accounting sense, you would also need to look at the time value of the points, and how points seem to be constantly devalued (not specific to QF - very much the same across most airlines across the world). Basically, if it's going to take you 5+ years to save up enough points for a free flight, which you probably can't take anyway since redemption bookings can be very limited, you might as well just go grab a $50 Woollies voucher and spend it on something you need now.

 

[Danger]

When an upgrade request is submitted, the booking has an annotation saying something "status of upgrade will be shown 5 hours before departure". When an upgrade is unsuccessful, does it also note this?

I'm getting close to my departure. A shadow has finally appeared in the seat next to my Y seat but my upgrade is still pending. I'm trying to work out if there's an indication that my upgrade request is denied.

(My flight is currently 9s across the J buckets.)

 

[nlagalle]

When an upgrade request is submitted, the booking has an annotation saying something "status of upgrade will be shown 5 hours before departure". When an upgrade is unsuccessful, does it also note this?

I'm getting close to my departure. A shadow has finally appeared in the seat next to my Y seat but my upgrade is still pending. I'm trying to work out if there's an indication that my upgrade request is denied.

(My flight is currently 9s across the J buckets.)

I had the same (5 hours before departure) however my upgrade and that of my bronze companion confirmed at T-24. how long til your flight?

 

[Danger]

I had the same (5 hours before departure) however my upgrade and that of my bronze companion confirmed at T-24. how long til your flight?

Circa 72 hours.

 

[nlagalle]

I reckon you will find out at T-24 like I did..

 

[Danger]

I reckon you will find out at T-24 like I did..

Cool. So will it say something like 'denied' or do I effectively not know in finality until I'm actually sitting in my Y seat?

 

[I hate Alan]

When an upgrade request is submitted, the booking has an annotation saying something "status of upgrade will be shown 5 hours before departure". When an upgrade is unsuccessful, does it also note this?

I'm getting close to my departure. A shadow has finally appeared in the seat next to my Y seat but my upgrade is still pending. I'm trying to work out if there's an indication that my upgrade request is denied.

(My flight is currently 9s across the J buckets.)

says "upgrade denied" i have had this that many times it should be my username

 

[Danger]

says "upgrade denied" i have had this that many times it should be my username

Good to know, thank you.