Preselecting Seating leaving Open Seat between you. Is it gaming?

[downgraded]

That was never my point. The issue is the 'gamers', with as little as silver membership, taking the A+C seats - for free - in the hope to actively discourage someone from sitting in the middle seat so they can score themselves a free seat and extra space.

Those gamers have no intention of actually sitting in A+C if the flight is full, they claim they will offer a person seating in the B seat the choice of the window or aisle.

The issue for the gamers is that they don't really know how full the flight is. And the poor person left with nothing but B has to wait till they board the plane before they realise their flight isn't going to be as miserable as they thought it was going to be for the previous 80 hours (when check-in opened). It's an awful feeling to be left thinking how uncomfortable a flight of 24 hours can be. I'm sure most have been in that situation at one time or another.

If the flight isn't full the people who book A+C have as much right to be in the lottery to have an adjacent empty seat as any other solo traveler.

Last time we booked A+C and ended up with an interloper he was bemused that we were quite happy to keep our selected seats. Mrs D slept in the window seat and I did my usual and fidgeted for much of the flight.

If people choose not to pay for seat selection then they are accepting they could be allocated a seat anywhere on the plane. It's not gaming the system, it's using the services and benefits the airline chooses to make available, or not.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And if the airline chooses to proactively move A+C gamers, as they did to my sister and her traveling companion, then I’m saying that’s fair enough.

 

[Toad]

No. I had paid and pre-allocated 2 aisle seats opposite each other. They then moved my wife and daughter to a different aisle seat to give her a vacant middle seat as she was with an infant but then moved me to that middle seat as they want families to sit together. This logic makes no sense to me. When I asked for original seats back they said wife and daughter can't have vacant seat and sure enough they left the middle seat we vacated as vacant for someone else with no infant.

Amateur hour. You can't make up this stuff.

Warning: Jetstar seat selection fees

Yes definitely does't make sense

 

[JohnK]

And if the airline chooses to proactively move A+C gamers, as they did to my sister and her traveling companion, then I’m saying that’s fair enough.

Proactively? How? Surely I can choose aisle for myself and window for my wife and would be comfortable knowing my seat selections will stick?

The airline cannot possible guess intentions such as family must sit together when they've preallocated separate seats.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Proactively? How? Surely I can choose aisle for myself and window for my wife and would be comfortable knowing my seat selections will stick?

The airline cannot possible guess intentions such as family must sit together when they've preallocated separate seats.

For commercial reasons, an airline may decide that couples travelling together, but choosing A+C to game the system is unfair and bad for business. It upsets a whole bunch of single travellers stuck in B seats. Sometimes an airline may assess the situation correctly and identify the true gamers. In others they may get it wrong. That’s the risk passengers take when not selecting seats next to each other.

 

[kpc]

I book rhe A and C seat...if someone sits in B, +1 and I don't talk for the flight duration

 

[dajop]

For commercial reasons, an airline may decide that couples travelling together, but choosing A+C to game the system is unfair and bad for business. It upsets a whole bunch of single travellers stuck in B seats. Sometimes an airline may assess the situation correctly and identify the true gamers. In others they may get it wrong. That’s the risk passengers take when not selecting seats next to each other.

I suspect it is not bad for business, as those trying "game" the system to paraphrase your post. probably fly a lot more than the average passenger sitting in the middle seat (not always, but I expect usually) We do it on the occasions we fly together (albeit we are often on separate bookings anyway), but only for the centre seats in a wide body, as we both prefer aisles. Won't choose window/empty/aisle, only aisle/empty/aisle if three across in the middle). If we luck out, and someone sits between us we don't communicate with each other. Last time we did this was on Jetstar 787, and we paid extra for seat selection. When there are oodles of aisle seats available for selection, why should we feel bad about someone who hasn't paid for seat selection be upset they are stuck in the middle seat? That goes with the territory of not paying for seat selection, you take your chances.

On one particular airline, as we are both high tier, several times they have seen our seating allocations and proactively blocked the middle seat for us, when not full. It makes sense to do so for higher tier customers, like the infamous WP shadows on QF. .

 

[Daver6]

For commercial reasons, an airline may decide that couples travelling together, but choosing A+C to game the system is unfair and bad for business. It upsets a whole bunch of single travellers stuck in B seats. Sometimes an airline may assess the situation correctly and identify the true gamers. In others they may get it wrong. That’s the risk passengers take when not selecting seats next to each other.

I don't understand how this is "gaming the system"? Why is an individual selecting their preferred seat not gaming but a couple doing so is gaming? Why is a single traveller somehow disadvantaged. The single traveller could select an aisle or window seat as well. What if two unrelated single travels are in an aisle and window. Is that third single traveller disadvantaged in the same way as if a couple were in the aisle and window?

 

[JohnK]

For commercial reasons, an airline may decide that couples travelling together, but choosing A+C to game the system is unfair and bad for business. It upsets a whole bunch of single travellers stuck in B seats. Sometimes an airline may assess the situation correctly and identify the true gamers. In others they may get it wrong. That’s the risk passengers take when not selecting seats next to each other.

This is not gaming the system. I can choose any seats I want and the airline has no right to change them regardless of what they suspect is happening.

If we were to choose A + C I would not he so rude as to talk over someone.

 

[RichardMEL]

I feel it's "gaming" in the sense of leaving the middle empty in the hopes it will not be taken because nobody would willingly select a middle in between two occupied seats (unless possibly a bulkhead or bassinet position). It's not doing anything wrong or anything, it's just hoping the a/c won't go out full, but it's "gaming" in respect of the gamble that that seat will not be occupied when the door closes... result is 3 seats between two pax for more room together. Worse case, someone shows up and likely they negotiate to move the 2 together and the "middle seater" can take the aisle or window(whatever their choice, which for them would be an upgrade).

I see nothing wrong with the practice.

I disagre with JohnK's assertion that the airline has no "right" to change the assignments. They have every right in the world under the CoC. Thy may not have a "moral right" in terms of what most people would think is moral or reasonable, but frankly an airline can assign seats or reassign if they wish (please, let's not get into the whole other argument about status and preassigned seats and all that, that's a whole other issue to me). You purchase "a seat" for transport not a "specific seat" - a seat request is that.

my 2 cents.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't understand how this is "gaming the system"? Why is an individual selecting their preferred seat not gaming but a couple doing so is gaming? Why is a single traveller somehow disadvantaged. The single traveller could select an aisle or window seat as well. What if two unrelated single travels are in an aisle and window. Is that third single traveller disadvantaged in the same way as if a couple were in the aisle and window?

Because they’re not selecting their preferred seats. They’re selecting them to try and secure an empty middle seat. I accept some couples choose the window and aisle and that’s where they’ll stay, and not talk over the person in B. But many of those trying to game the system have no intention of not sitting next to each other... they just want to try and see if they can get a spare seat.

An airline may see a commercial disadvantage in that... if all the windows and aisles are taken by couples, relegating everyone else to middles, those people may not wish to continue flying the airline (middle seats suck!)

 

[Pushka]

And if the airline chooses to proactively move A+C gamers, as they did to my sister and her traveling companion, then I’m saying that’s fair enough.

I don't understand how this is "gaming the system"? Why is an individual selecting their preferred seat not gaming but a couple doing so is gaming? Why is a single traveller somehow disadvantaged. The single traveller could select an aisle or window seat as well. What if two unrelated single travels are in an aisle and window. Is that third single traveller disadvantaged in the same way as if a couple were in the aisle and window?

Agree. Why is an individual any different because they travel with a partner?

Because they’re not selecting their preferred seats. They’re selecting them to try and secure an empty middle seat. I accept some couples choose the window and aisle and that’s where they’ll stay, and not talk over the person in B. But many of those trying to game the system have no intention of not sitting next to each other... they just want to try and see if they can get a spare seat.

An airline may see a commercial disadvantage in that... if all the windows and aisles are taken by couples, relegating everyone else to middles, those people may not wish to continue flying the airline (middle seats suck!)

Of course they are selecting their preferred seats. To do anything else means that their preferred seat is the middle one and we all know that’s just not the case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Agree. Why is an individual any different because they travel with a partner?



Of course they are selecting their preferred seats. To do anything else means that their preferred seat is the middle one and we all know that’s just not the case.

Except the A+Cers say it’s not their preferred seat! They want to sit together, but try to game the system with a spare. With the exceptions stated on this thread, I can’t imagine many A+Cers that would actually be happy sitting in the window, trapped and unable to get out, and unable to speak to their partner in C, with a stranger in the middle! I can’t say i know anyone (except those who have mentioned otherwise here on AFF) that would fit in that category.

 

[JohnK]

I disagre with JohnK's assertion that the airline has no "right" to change the assignments. They have every right in the world under the CoC. Thy may not have a "moral right" in terms of what most people would think is moral or reasonable, but frankly an airline can assign seats or reassign if they wish (please, let's not get into the whole other argument about status and preassigned seats and all that, that's a whole other issue to me). You purchase "a seat" for transport not a "specific seat" - a seat request is that.

You can disagree with me but an airline really has no right to change seats for anything other than serious operational reasons and I will challenge any airline that tries to pull that stunt of thinking they know where is best for me to sit.

 

[RichardMEL]

You can disagree with me but an airline really has no right to change seats for anything other than serious operational reasons and I will challenge any airline that tries to pull that stunt of thinking they know where is best for me to sit.

With respect you've twisted ever so slightly my argument. I wasn't suggestng "they" know the best place you should sit etc.

I was simply asserting that under the terms of the Contract of Carriage.... an airline can seat a pax wherrever they like within the cabin purchased and appicable to the fare conditions purchased.

Now, if you can find concrete evidence to the contrary I say your argument is a "moral" or ethical one rather than a technical one in terms of the CoC.

for the record I do not in any way agree with moving pax around at the whim of an agent (or even another pax's request) without asking. I want to be clear on that.

 

[TheRealTMA]

You can disagree with me but an airline really has no right to change seats for anything other than serious operational reasons and I will challenge any airline that tries to pull that stunt of thinking they know where is best for me to sit.

Of course they do. The airline can change seats as they see fit for all sorts of reasons. They usually don’t but it’s their plane. Whether it’s polite or moral to do so, and whether you like it is not relavent. No seating is “guaranteed” it’s a condition of the travel. You can chose to not accept their change and you can chose not to travel, apart from that a pax has very few “rights”.

 

[Kerrodt]

Oh this deserves its own separate thread. I can see this beauty taking on a life of its own.

Mods....please?

*Wanders off to get popcorn*

Oh I never imagined in my wildest dreams that we would be mining such vast quantities of AFF Gold in one single thread.

I’m on my 54th bag of popcorn and I haven’t left the house for 5 days. I’m hooked.

 

[Hvr]

I’m on my 54th bag of popcorn and I haven’t left the house for 5 days. I’m hooked.

With that much popcorn I wouldn't be venturing too far from the toilet.

 

[JohnK]

I was simply asserting that under the terms of the Contract of Carriage.... an airline can seat a pax wherrever they like within the cabin purchased and appicable to the fare conditions purchased.

Now, if you can find concrete evidence to the contrary I say your argument is a "moral" or ethical one rather than a technical one in terms of the CoC.

for the record I do not in any way disagree with moving pax around at the whim of an agent (or even another pax's request) without asking. I want to be clear on that.

Does the last statement sound ok? Should it be "I do not in any way agree with moving pax around at the whim of an agent without asking".

Let's leave this argument at the point where I don't give up in regards to seating. Whether that's right or wrong is debatable and I don't simply accept any changes without a fight.

Take note that I'm not a nasty person. I do like to help out but not when forced into helping out because that is what someone wants. A number of years ago I was in aisle bulkhead window side on a QF 767 with a youngish bloke with an infant in the window seat. His wife was somewhere down the back. After take-off I found an aisle seat a few rows back for me and the lady in window seat did not mind me moving there. I asked the FA about moving and bring the persons wife up from the back and I was escorted to business class seat instead.

 

[Matt_01]

A bit OT and although I will sit on the fence around the rights of an airline to move passenger seating I do get a bit annoyed when it just randomly happens. Only today, a flight for MrsM and MissM hit my email account, QF ticketed flights with a MU internal china flight. Thinking something must have changed I looked at their booking and the only thing I initially noticed was that MU added allocated seating for the connecting internal flight. On closer look the QF booking system has also reallocated seats on the SYD-PVG and the NRT-MEL sectors and also just wiped out the ADL-SYD and MEL-ADL sectors. I am not seat gaming as I have a different first world problem as they are travelling in J.

What irritates me is that when travelling on the QF a330 MrsM and MissM prefer to travel in the odd numbered A and E seats as these both have seating directly on the aisle and it is easier to manage for MrsM with MissM (if on a 787 even number rows are on the aisle). The QF system automatically allocates them 2E and 2F and it is well known that these seats are not the best for pairs due to unmovable divider and the fact to get to one seat from the other you basically have to move around the entire cabin. MissM is to young and small to manage putting HL in the bins so being one the separate aisles is annoying.

I have got used to watching their bookings and do not get why the QF system seems to want to reallocate seats on what seems to be a random basis. As I said first world problem.