V Australia to fly to South Africa

[dajop]

Shame they can't make MEL-JNB work. It's not fun looking out the window, knowing it's going to take over 4 hours to get back to the spot directly beneath you, only 11km away ....

 

[browski]

Shame they can't make MEL-JNB work. It's not fun looking out the window, knowing it's going to take over 4 hours to get back to the spot directly beneath you, only 11km away ....

Similarly, you'd hope someone would have a shot at Mel/Syd - Cape Town

 

[NYCguy]

Lindsay they can be quite strong 200-350km/hr and the routing can go up to 70deg south, over parts of the pole.

A very lonely part of the world, especially if batteries needed charging or oxy tanks require refilling............

Also fire-suppression systems have to able to do their job adequately for such isolated routes. Problems for both twin and quad-engined craft.

 

[dajop]

Similarly, you'd hope someone would have a shot at Mel/Syd - Cape Town

Now that's a good idea. Not intuitive, but the tool I use puts the distance from SYD-CPT 20 miles shorter than SYD-JNB.

I guess CPT, like MEL (& countless other "second" cities, such as BCN, YUL, RIO, KUL, KIX, LED, MUC, MAN, DEL, SFO) is more of a secondary hub or destination in its own right than main hub.

 

[comint]

I think forming a "relationship" with an SA carrier (Kulula ?) and connecting via Durban to South Eastern Australia makes more sense xx_-DUR-MEL-xx_.

 

[Sprucegoose]

A twin jet operating a commercial service is not going to be going that far south. It haas to remain within the certified ETOPS coverage area.

Its not a twin jet. From Sydney 747 LR RR and 340-200/600 from Perth. Perth is not that far south, Sydney can be depending on winds/economics.

Regards SPRUCE

 

[Sprucegoose]

Shame they can't make MEL-JNB work. It's not fun looking out the window, knowing it's going to take over 4 hours to get back to the spot directly beneath you, only 11km away ....

Melbourne!!! You're lucky. I fly over Perth only to have to fly back once reaching ol sydney town.

Regards SPRUCE

 

[NM]

Its not a twin jet. From Sydney 747 LR RR and 340-200/600 from Perth. Perth is not that far south, Sydney can be depending on winds/economics.

Regards SPRUCE

v Australia are purchasing 777-300, so will not be flying that far south (was the context of my comment).

 

[Sprucegoose]

The issue is more about ETOPS requirements rather than endurance.

CX do HKG-JFK in 777-300 ER, less distance than SYD-JNB.

 

[dajop]

CX do HKG-JFK in 777-300 ER, less distance than SYD-JNB.

You mean that HKG-JFK is more distance than SYD-JNB.

In any event, the time I flew HKG-JFK, we stayed fairly close to land for the whole journey tracking over Japan, Alaska etc. On SYD-JNB, once you get past Tasmania, there is virtually no land anywhere nearby until you reach the South African coast.

 

[serfty]

The direct route HKG-JFK is mainly overland.

SYD-JNB often flys over or very close to parts of Antarctica.

Here's an Aug '05 image from a Trip Report/Blog by Gardyloo of FT:

 

[DJ737]

Hi there

The JNB-SYD flight tracks directly over the MEL VOR situated at the airport, as does the NZ AKL-PER flight, one day the 2 were overhead MEL at the same time on a cloudless day, it was interesting watching the 2 vapour trails on a collision course:mrgreen:

Cheers
DJ737

 

[Sprucegoose]

In any event, the time I flew HKG-JFK, we stayed fairly close to land for the whole journey tracking over Japan, Alaska etc. On SYD-JNB, once you get past Tasmania, there is virtually no land anywhere nearby until you reach the South African coast.[/quote]


Twin engined aircraft flights from SYD to JNB would basically have to fly further north than the QF B744 flights. This would be to remain within the "still air" ETOPS range ((calculated at a fast single engine speed), which I believe is a little over 5 hours for the B777-300ER) of suitable alternate airports such as Perth, Cocos Is, St Denis, Mauritius, Durban etc. The planned route would have to look at the depressurisation case so that at all times the aircraft remains within range of a suitable airport flying at 14,000'/10,000' after loss of pressurisation.

Often, the optimum SYD-JNB route involves flying a long way south over the Antarctic land mass but QF operations limit the flights to remain north of the continent (approx 65 degrees South) due to depressurisation issues - Antarctica has a very high plateau in that area.

The twin engined aircraft would not be at a disadvantage on the return flight from JNB as the optimum route is normally further north to take advantage of the tailwinds ie within the ETOPS/depressurisation limits.

 

[straitman]

The best info I can find has the current maximum ETOPS for a B777 at 239 minutes. Current FAA limits

Attached is a link with a very good explanation of how ETOPS works. Flight Safety & ETOPS

 

[Sprucegoose]

The best info I can find has the current maximum ETOPS for a B777 at 239 minutes. Current FAA limits

Attached is a link with a very good explanation of how ETOPS works. Flight Safety & ETOPS

Good research. I beleive 777-300ER is certified / designed to 330 ETOPS.

They flew one from SYD to GIG (Rio) in 03.

FromToInitial
HeadingDistanceSYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E)GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W)164° (S)7312 nm

Boeing: Boeing 777-300ER Performs 330-Minute ETOPS Flight

Cheers SPRUCE

 

[straitman]

The possibility of 5 hours over the southern ocean on one engine is way outside my comfort zone.

Current water temperature south of the Aust mainland is around 9 deg C. http://www.marine.csiro.au/~lband/web_point/

You would not have to worry about drowning if you survived the ditching as your useful consciousness would be less than 30 min at those temperatures.

 

[Sprucegoose]

The possibility of 5 hours over the southern ocean on one engine is way outside my comfort zone.

Current water temperature south of the Aust mainland is around 9 deg C. http://www.marine.csiro.au/~lband/web_point/

You would not have to worry about drowning if you survived the ditching as your useful consciousness would be less than 30 min at those temperatures.

I would be lucky to do that...if you survived the crash and the water, a walrus would propbably eat you....rescue would be a few days off i would say.

 

[v8Statesman]

The possibility of 5 hours over the southern ocean on one engine is way outside my comfort zone.

Current water temperature south of the Aust mainland is around 9 deg C. http://www.marine.csiro.au/~lband/web_point/

You would not have to worry about drowning if you survived the ditching as your useful consciousness would be less than 30 min at those temperatures.

Swim near the floating/burning fuselage until it finally sinks. That should warm the water for you

 

[Sprucegoose]

Swim near the floating/burning fuselage until it finally sinks. That should warm the water for you

Munch on floating nuts and unserved meals. too cold for sharkes one hopes. although i saw a great white in tassie once....