'Alan Joyce has Qantas stuck in stunt mode'

[TonyHancock]

Interesting piece in the AFR this morning. I believe it is behind a paywall but not sure if AFR allows limited access.

The last couple of paragraphs made me smile

Still unquenched denouncing Branson’s black kettle, Joyce even reckoned “he will find it very difficult to compete against us because … we’ve got this expertise at long-haul flying that no other airline in the world has”.

Which is just the most extraordinary bullshit. Qantas is a thoroughly respected ultra-long haul operator, no question. But its PR joyrides aside, the Perth-London route is 14,449 kilometres with a scheduled flight time of 17 hours and 20 minutes. Singapore Airlines operates to New York (Newark) over 15,344 kilometres and 18 hours, 45 minutes. United, Emirates and Qatar all operate regular services longer than 14,000 kilometres and 17 hours. All manage to do so, mercifully, without David Koch dancing the Macarena in his pyjamas.

Alan Joyce has Qantas stuck in stunt mode

 

[Happy Trails]

Oh dear, no CL for you Joe Aston.

 

[Saab34]

Branson normally comes out swinging with some crazy claims. I recall recently he said he wanted VS to do London to Perth and they are looking at it right now. VS CEO said no we are not doing Perth to London and we are not looking at it!

Even at the Hong Kong launch he was telling the press Virgin is getting all these slots and we will be doing Brisbane soon, next year we are doing Shanghai and Beijing blah blah blah

 

[SeaWolf]

Yeah, there's no doubt these 'research flights' are just a publicity stunt. There's no actual research going on and SQ has been operating flights that are almost this long for many years. I flew the EWR-SIN service back in the A340 days!
It also seems odd to me that they're cranking up the PR on this so soon. Given that even their (optimistic) estimate is a start in 2023 I don't see how they can keep up a (worthwhile) PR push through all that time. By the time they actually launch everyone will have forgotten this.
Joe Aston is right to call QF on their BS and on the fawning reproduction of it by a lot of the press.

 

[justinbrett]

Yeah, there's no doubt these 'research flights' are just a publicity stunt. There's no actual research going on and SQ has been operating flights that are almost this long for many years. I flew the EWR-SIN service back in the A340 days!
It also seems odd to me that they're cranking up the PR on this so soon. Given that even their (optimistic) estimate is a start in 2023 I don't see how they can keep up a (worthwhile) PR push through all that time. By the time they actually launch everyone will have forgotten this.
Joe Aston is right to call QF on their BS and on the fawning reproduction of it by a lot of the press.

They are mostly (an attempt) to convince CASA and the unions that the extended duration is safe.

 

[Saab34]

They are dripping the media to keep the whole thing alive. They will announce if they are doing it or not next month. They next year will announce the aircraft type. Then the flights go on sale. Slowly they are drip feeding the details so it stays in our minds.

I would imagine they already have negotiated the aircraft order and the whole thing is just a waiting game now.

I sort of laughed when I read about the University doing research on the Economy seat and if the human body can handle it. QF don’t give a **** how you feel or how your body is coping in Economy.

All that rubbish with underneath beds and gyms etc...

The media are so dumb.

 

[jakeseven7]

They are dripping the media to keep the whole thing alive. They will announce if they are doing it or not next month. They next year will announce the aircraft type. Then the flights go on sale. Slowly they are drip feeding the details so it stays in our minds.

I would imagine they already have negotiated the aircraft order and the whole thing is just a waiting game now.

I sort of laughed when I read about the University doing research on the Economy seat and if the human body can handle it. QF don’t give a **** how you feel or how your body is coping in Economy.

All that rubbish with underneath beds and gyms etc...

The media are so dumb.

Media are not dumb, don't be so naive!

They are very commercially savvy. As are Qantas. It is a massive WIN-WIN for everyone, including this reporter.

These stories are hugely popular and draw enormous amounts of clicks and revenue.

If anyone is 'dumb' it is the general public who love all of this content.

 

[moa999]

The media laps it up because any story about Qantas gets clicks (and that's all today's media cares about). So if you're QF why not take advantage of it - otherwise its just more Will.i.am and Veronica's doss.

There is still a need to prove these flights to CASA, and Qantas isn't paying $$s to academics just for the fun of it.
The passenger stuff is a sideline - this is about fatigue management for the crew.

 

[amaroo]

He should have disembarked via the luggage belt dressed in top hat and tails surrounded by cucumber sandwiches - missed opportunity.

 

[jakeseven7]

Branson normally comes out swinging with some crazy claims. I recall recently he said he wanted VS to do London to Perth and they are looking at it right now. VS CEO said no we are not doing Perth to London and we are not looking at it!

Even at the Hong Kong launch he was telling the press Virgin is getting all these slots and we will be doing Brisbane soon, next year we are doing Shanghai and Beijing blah blah blah

Agreed, RB is FOS 99.99% of the time. VA can barely make transcon work in wide bodies let alone PER-LONDON!

 

[justinbrett]

I’m not as confident as some that sunrise will go ahead. I’m not entirely sure AJ is confident either - unless that’s a tactic to influence the manufacturers and/or the unions.

 

[jakeseven7]

I’m not as confident as some that sunrise will go ahead. I’m not entirely sure AJ is confident either - unless that’s a tactic to influence the manufacturers and/or the unions.

It will at some point, who knows when though. I think it is more a question of when...

QF are pushing the manufacturers because they are actively fleet planning at the moment.

They have to be thinking 20 years into the future. What is the point of buying aircraft in the next couple of years that won't move to where the market is going to be...

 

[justinbrett]

It will at some point, who knows when though. I think it is more a question of when...

QF are pushing the manufacturers because they are actively fleet planning at the moment.

They have to be thinking 20 years into the future. What is the point of buying aircraft in the next couple of years that won't move to where the market is going to be...

There’s no imperative to buying more (different) long haul aircraft now. The 787 can replace all of the 747 routes (yes there’s an ETOPS hurdle for JNB but that is a formality). They will need an A380 replacement at some point but they can possibly put that off for another decade. The 777 is a good option for sunrise because if nothing else, it allows them to fly current A380 routes with a larger aircraft than 787.

i do agree that SYD-LHR will happen, but it’s not a fait accompli just yet. Perhaps it will require faster or higher capacity aircraft to make the numbers work. That said, there has to be a reasonable level of confidence this will work now, otherwise this is a lot of effort and PR for nothing.

 

[wanderer_au]

For me this is more an interesting mis-step by Joe Aston, Andrew Parker (Qantas group executive of government relations) or both. Both men come from the staffer fringes of the left or "moderate" wing of the NSW Liberal party 15-20 years ago (Aston was Joe Hockey's press secretary for a time in the Howard years and Parker was John Hewson's press secretary and ran the Howard Government's lobbyist shop of choice, the eponymous Parker and Partners). They also share close, trusted friends still in that world. I am surprised they are so off-message with each other.

 

[Melburnian1]

I’m not as confident as some that sunrise will go ahead. I’m not entirely sure AJ is confident either - unless that’s a tactic to influence the manufacturers and/or the unions.

Nor, interestingly, is one of our aviators who "drove" similar equipment.

One can never say "never", but at present to be commercially viable it appears to be a stretch.

I assume SIN to New York succeeds (or at least hasn't been publicly stated as to be withdrawn yet) due to much high yielding business traffic.

My reaction yesterday when I saw AJ's comments was to immediately think of a few other airlines that operate long haul nonstops, just as TonyHancock did.

 

[justinbrett]

Just to clear up some confusion, SYD-LHR is about 1000NM longer than SIN-JFK, so those comparisons aren’t helpful. Whilst it doesn’t seem much, it’s about 2.5 hours flying time and that’s the issue, that PER-LHR (just a few hundred less than SIN-JFK) is already operating on the maximum crew duty window. The fuel is the other issue which exponentially decreases once you start going longer than the useful range .

 

[Melburnian1]

Interesting piece in the AFR this morning...

Rating #1 for online viewing on the 'AFR' site today.

 

[dajop]

Branson normally comes out swinging with some crazy claims. I recall recently he said he wanted VS to do London to Perth and they are looking at it right now. VS CEO said no we are not doing Perth to London and we are not looking at it!

Hosting “The Apprentice” comes with a lifetime license to make crazy claims. It goes with the territory.

 

[jase05]

Agreed, RB is FOS 99.99% of the time. VA can barely make transcon work in wide bodies let alone PER-LONDON!

VA are not trying to make Perth to London work. It’s VS that he has said would look to run that route in a A350 and then onwards to AKL (I doubt that will eventuate either though)

 

[stm1sydney]

It also seems odd to me that they're cranking up the PR on this so soon.

It's given them a huge amount of fawning coverage, which strengthens their brand, drowns out the occasional negative coverage, and papers over the rubbish product. So there are substantial "here and now" benefits from the stunts. And QF marketing dept is a master at it.