"The current Qantas program is the best and most generous in the world."

[Supersonic Swinger]

Reading Ben Sandilands latest blog post about Qantas (Qantas, Joyce version, needs to score some good media fast | Plane Talking), I almost fell of my chair when I read the quote in the title of the thread.

Of course you can get value through using QFF points, but relative to most other programs it is wholly inferior, other than quick achievement of status and lifetime status when flying on Business or First fares (when status becomes meaningless anyway). I thought about some examples of how poorly QFF stacks up and would be interested to hear other examples:

1. SYD-MEL one way on Qantas is 8,000 points plus about $50 in fees. The same flight on Virgin is 6,900 points plus $25 in fees. If all your points are primarily earned from credit card spend then overseas programs are harder to use, but even in that situation you’d be mad to use QFF and should be using Virgin Velocity because you get more bang for your buck. Using the SYD-MEL example above, you need to spend $8,000 on the fee free Qantas Amex to get that, while you only need to spend $6,900 on the fee free Velocity Amex to get the same flight on Virgin.


2. SYD-JFK in Business on Qantas is 128,000 points plus about $600 in fees. The same flight using American Airlines miles is 62,500 plus about $100 in fees.


3. The new QF Diners card earns you 1.5 points per dollar capped at 60,000, when it falls to 1 point per dollar. The regular diners earns 3 DC points per dollar which convert 1:1 into Velocity, no points capping.

I could list more examples, but have I missed something? Is QFF really the best and most generous in the world?

 

[TonyHancock]

FASA & JASA.....I'm not sending my points anywhere else.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

FASA & JASA.....I'm not sending my points anywhere else.

From what I can tell, these generally value your points at less than 1 cent each. SYD-JNB-SYD is currently going for $7,068 all in, or 816,153 QFF for a JASA, or .87 cents per point. You're better off spending $706,800 on a credit card that gives you 1 cent cash back for each dollar than spending $816,153 on a card that earns 1 QFF point per dollar to book the JASA.

The value comes with say a OW RTW in J - generally costs over $10,000, and if you are lucky enough to get availability costs 280,000 points, or 3.6 cents per point.

 

[TonyHancock]

From what I can tell, these generally value your points at less than 1 cent each. SYD-JNB-SYD is currently going for $7,068 all in, or 816,153 QFF for a JASA, or .87 cents per point. You're better off spending $706,800 on a credit card that gives you 1 cent cash back for each dollar than spending $816,153 on a card that earns 1 QFF point per dollar to book the JASA.

The value comes with say a OW RTW in J - generally costs over $10,000, and if you are lucky enough to get availability costs 280,000 points, or 3.6 cents per point.

On Wednesday I'm heading off to the UK on a return JASA - 256,000 points + a few hundred dollars. On this particular trip I'll earn 520 SC's and the best part of 50,000 points. (As a WP)

 

[nlagalle]

From what I can tell, these generally value your points at less than 1 cent each. SYD-JNB-SYD is currently going for $7,068 all in, or 816,153 QFF for a JASA, or .87 cents per point. You're better off spending $706,800 on a credit card that gives you 1 cent cash back for each dollar than spending $816,153 on a card that earns 1 QFF point per dollar to book the JASA.

The value comes with say a OW RTW in J - generally costs over $10,000, and if you are lucky enough to get availability costs 280,000 points, or 3.6 cents per point.

Provided you know how and where to look, ASA's can provide far better value than Classic awards on QF or any other carrier for that matter. They aren't always at the bottom point levels, but no other award allows point and SC earn.

 

[moa999]

On Wednesday I'm heading off to the UK on a return JASA - 256,000 points + a few hundred dollars. On this particular trip I'll earn 520 SC's and the best part of 50,000 points. (As a WP)

Whereas on AA this flight would have cost???
Sure no SCs, but if you already have lifetime?

IMHO the JASA/FASA ability make the QF program bearable.

 

[TonyHancock]

Sure no SCs,

Nail, head, from a very, very happy WP1.

 

[serfty]

... + a few hundred dollars. ...

It would have been over $900, so in the "Higher" range of "a Few".

They have their sweet spots for sure. Last week I spent 168000 QFF points and ~$640 on my pet award. (It is hard to get and I've had to vary my dates by a week from my preference, but I'll earn over 500 SC's and ~50K QFF points.

In spite of that and even with the points earn, they are generally expensive when compared to most other FF program redemption that can be available to Australian residents.

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[tuapekastar]

From what I can tell, these generally value your points at less than 1 cent each. SYD-JNB-SYD is currently going for $7,068 all in, or 816,153 QFF for a JASA, or .87 cents per point. You're better off spending $706,800 on a credit card that gives you 1 cent cash back for each dollar than spending $816,153 on a card that earns 1 QFF point per dollar to book the JASA.

The value comes with say a OW RTW in J - generally costs over $10,000, and if you are lucky enough to get availability costs 280,000 points, or 3.6 cents per point.

I don't believe I got the best value I could have (it's all in the timing) but I have a fully refundable JASA SYD-JNB-SYD booked for about a quarter that points cost (plus ~500 dollars). They are vary variable in 'price'.

 

[ric_melb]

I think if you read Sandilands' article a few times you will realise that he is saying that the Qantas Frequent Flyer scheme is the best and most generous scheme in the world, to Qantas, not to frequent flyers. As usual his sarcastic approach to Qantas is to the fore.
That doesn't necessarily detract from the comments made by posters above. In fact their criticism of the value to them tends to bear out what I believe Sandilands is saying.

 

[TonyHancock]

My strategy is probably a little different to most here because I earn more than 500,000 points per year alone from flying QF and OW airlines. It, along with CC and other earnings, allows me to book three J paid MEL-LHR-MEL and three JASA's (+ occasional FASA's), same routing, per year. Whilst not quite self perpetuating it is a very tidy result, and I cannot see how I can achieve the same with any other program. The 50,000 points at 2400SC's and 4 loyalty bonuses are handy too.

WP1 is the icing on the cake that makes my international QF travel less strenuous. (Such a pity about QF domestic!)

I rarely jump in to defend QF but in this case I am.

 

[JohnK]

1. SYD-MEL one way on Qantas is 8,000 points plus about $50 in fees. The same flight on Virgin is 6,900 points plus $25 in fees. If all your points are primarily earned from credit card spend then overseas programs are harder to use, but even in that situation you’d be mad to use QFF and should be using Virgin Velocity because you get more bang for your buck. Using the SYD-MEL example above, you need to spend $8,000 on the fee free Qantas Amex to get that, while you only need to spend $6,900 on the fee free Velocity Amex to get the same flight on Virgin.

Assuming you only look at credit card spend.

Lets look at flights with no status

- With Qantas 8 x SYD-MEL one-way at ~$89 on sale, or $712, will earn a one-way return SYD-MEL
- With Virgin one needs to spend $1,380, at ~$79 on sale or ~17.5 flights, will earn a one-way SYD-MEL

That to me makes the QFF program a lot more generous. And I am not knocking Velocity but you cannot get a clearer picture than above. And yes I know there will be other routes that may swing Virgin's way but overall I find QFF streets ahead.

 

[madrooster]

And yes I know there will be other routes that may swing Virgin's way but overall I find QFF streets ahead.

International is no better either for DJ. You earn approx twice the amount of points on QF RT to say LAX, than you do on DJ.

I can however think of a case where DJ would come out in front, and that is domestic J on DJ which would earn more points than QF.

 

[Deleted member]

FASA & JASA.....I'm not sending my points anywhere else.

Yep, me too


It is I, Leclerc !

 

[drron]

We have JASAs SYD-JNB at 86000 points + $700.
On the other hand doing some forward planning and have seen F Aawards SYD-LAX or MEL-LAX for 72500 + $US71.40.So still glad I switched to Aadvantage when I did.

 

[serfty]

...

That to me makes the QFF program a lot more generous. And I am not knocking Velocity but you cannot get a clearer picture than above. And yes I know there will be other routes that may swing Virgin's way but overall I find QFF streets ahead.

When was the last time you booked a SYD-BNE on points?

Value is only found where you use it.

Many here have a lot better use for those 8000 point +++ as part of a more substantial award.

Of course, the 140K 35,000 mile oneworrd economy award is close as good as QFF gets for redemption value in economy.

 

[moa999]

Assuming you only look at credit card spend.

Lets look at flights with no status

- With Qantas 8 x SYD-MEL one-way at ~$89 on sale, or $712, will earn a one-way return SYD-MEL
- With Virgin one needs to spend $1,380, at ~$79 on sale or ~17.5 flights, will earn a one-way SYD-MEL

That to me makes the QFF program a lot more generous. And I am not knocking Velocity but you cannot get a clearer picture than above. And yes I know there will be other routes that may swing Virgin's way but overall I find QFF streets ahead.

But what about the businessman/woman who buys flexible tickets, generally last minute. Lets say fares on both Qantas and Virgin are $350 a piece
- On Qantas one still needs 8x SYD-MEL @$350 costing $2,800
- On Virgin one needs to spend $1,380 as Nil status (ie under 4x SYD-MEL flights) or only $690 as a Platinum member (ie under 2x SYD-MEL flights)

So the Virgin attractive is actually FAR more attractive to the higher ticket paying customers --- the ones where the airline actually makes good margin.

 

[chonetsao.co.uk]

I actually agree with the article that the current QFF is one of the best in the world. Yes you get lousy redemption rate in some flights. Look at AA. You have to spend 25K for a US domestic ticket in Y. Where QF member spend 8000-16000 average in the same sectors. However, I agree AA is better to redeem premier class. But QFF do get more points per sector in many flights than AA members. XASA is definitely a great thing. Provide they do not do any more enhancement I think QFF is very decent and top of the world airline FFPs in overall value. (Yes again I know some minor points not as competitive as others but overall it wins. And you win some you loose some, is the game of FFP. There is no ideal one exist so that is why we have multiple accounts)

 

[yohy?!]

I actually agree with the article that the current QFF is one of the best in the world.

if ignoring JASAs/FASAs (which I happen to love ) then QFF is one of the worst for burn rates for points, sure it's great to earn twice as many points as say CX or SQ (for WPs) - the only problem is the awards are twice as many points to redeem (plus the taxes are outrageous)!

 

[TonyHancock]

if ignoring JASAs/FASAs (which I happen to love ) then QFF is one of the worst for burn rates for points, sure it's great to earn twice as many points as say CX or SQ (for WPs) - the only problem is the awards are twice as many points to redeem (plus the taxes are outrageous)!

If QF ditched JASA's/FASA's then my view would turn 180 degrees.