Future of Sub-continent routes

[cmon0005]

With Qantas' recent decision to withdraw from the SIN-BOM (Mumbai) route, options to the Indian Sub-continent have become somewhat limited now.

As a Business traveller and holiday traveller to India, I am now rather stuck with options, Business was mostly done on SQ due to companies agreement with them, occasionally QF, all my holiday flights are on QF to Mumbai because of the shorter stopover and QP benefits etc.

Now the only viable option to India is SQ, abliet with a 3-7+ hour stopover in Singapore, almost a 20-24 hour trip. Whereas Qantas' QF 51/52 service connecting with flights from Melb and Syd/BNE only had a stopover of 50mins - 1 hour.

Post May 6th the only option for booking via QF to India is via the Codeshare with Jet Airways (9W) which I don't mind as its a QF flight number so will still get points/SC's only problem is they have increased the stopover in singapore to over 12 hours.. they're really trying to rule themselves out of the market by the looks of it?

IMHO QF had a golden opportunity here but they never took it seriously hence why the route failed in the end. From talking with lots of other Business travellers to Mumbai, a large % fly SQ despite the longer stopover.
The main concern is price (QF were always ~$9000-10,000 return in J) SQ was always around (~$6000-7500 return in J) or a bit less for corporate deals. Also the frequency on QF was poor for business travellers 3 times per week service, SQ is daily, If QF had of dropped their prices a bit and opted for more frequent services at least 5 times a week, I am sure J would be full more often.


My predictions for the future are this:
1. From May when QF leaves the route, SQ market share will increase.
2. With no viable OW partner in the region, (Kingfisher no longer joining OW) and Malaysia Airlines OW joining status unknown, QF may find themselves loosing a lot of critical sales from SYD/MEL/ BNE to SIN instead with people opting to fly SQ.
3. They introduce J*, if so they can kiss any Business pax goodbye and wave them all towards SQ.
4. They will realise all of the above and "re-launch" SIN -BOM services or even SYD-BOM direct services (which they had prior to the GFC) to try to entice valuable J pax back.


What are others thoughts on this? Does anyone else travel this route?


Later this month I will be flying QF51 and return on QF52, will feel sad that this may be my last trip on QF on this route.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Are you forgetting Thai? They have a significant number of routes to India. Most of my clients visiting India use Thai exclusively.

 

[cmon0005]

Are you forgetting Thai? They have a significant number of routes to India. Most of my clients visiting India use Thai exclusively.

Alot of people I spoke with when flying J in SQ, don't see Thai as good as QF and SQ when it comes to reliability/BKK is not that nice to transit through and it can be hit and miss with their J cabins some with old seating some with new, beds are quite angled.
Maybe for the leisure traveller in Y it may be ok but for a business pax travelling J from what others have told me its more like a 'Budget' J service.

Happy for other opinions though.

Would love to hear others thoughts on my 4 predictions for the future!

 

[moa999]

With only two more A380s due, and 747 retirements starting,
I don't see QF International launching any new flights anytime soon

There was a possibility with RedQ but that seems a dead duck.

 

[markis10]

CX have similar timings in terms of layover to SQ, however seem pretty competitive at $1180 round trip!

 

[mel-world]

With Qantas' recent decision to withdraw from the SIN-BOM (Mumbai) route, options to the Indian Sub-continent have become somewhat limited now.


My predictions for the future are this:
1. From May when QF leaves the route, SQ market share will increase.
2. With no viable OW partner in the region, (Kingfisher no longer joining OW) and Malaysia Airlines OW joining status unknown, QF may find themselves loosing a lot of critical sales from SYD/MEL/ BNE to SIN instead with people opting to fly SQ.
3. They introduce J*, if so they can kiss any Business pax goodbye and wave them all towards SQ.
4. They will realise all of the above and "re-launch" SIN -BOM services or even SYD-BOM direct services (which they had prior to the GFC) to try to entice valuable J pax back.


What are others thoughts on this? Does anyone else travel this route?

Good thread. I do quite a bit of business in Asia including a contract during the Delhi Commonwealth Games from 2008-10. I was always surprised by the number of Indians on the SQ services out of MEL, proving there were not many options for the large number of sub-continent students, their families and businessmen travelling between the two regions and the lesser number of Australians making the reverse journey. SQ always had reasonable connection times, especially when they had two flights a day between SIN-DEL.

I too cannot understand why QF should have abandoned the route to the sub-continent but seems typical of their concentration on ultra long haul to LHR, LAX, DFW etc. rather than shorter, but still long haul routes to Asia that they seem happy to move to J* as quickly as possible.

Being from MEL, I really have no choice given the SYD centric business model that QF has displayed for some time. One flight a day to Asia with few same-day connections to north Asia is not really catering to the market that is obviously available given the loads on the three SQ flights as day from the city. I could use MH, Thai or CX but SQ has always given me the best connections despite their recent messing with the aircraft types serving MEL.

To comment on your options above, obviously #1 will happen although there is not a lot of spare capacity out of MEL anyway. I can see #3 being an option as that appears to be Joyce's plan everywhere, coming as he does from a low cost background. They may retail the student market between Australia and the sub-continent using J* but will loose the business traveller. The one thing I cannot see happening is #4; I do not think QF wants a full-service international business so will do anything to cut back unless they get a JV with some airline in Asia but even MH would not bite so their options are few and far between I cannot see much good news for QF supporters. I am busy burning my QFF points domestically at the moment and moving to DJ as I have lost faith in the 'red kangaroo'.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Alot of people I spoke with when flying J in SQ, don't see Thai as good as QF and SQ when it comes to reliability/BKK is not that nice to transit through and it can be hit and miss with their J cabins some with old seating some with new, beds are quite angled.
Maybe for the leisure traveller in Y it may be ok but for a business pax travelling J from what others have told me its more like a 'Budget' J service.

Happy for other opinions though.

Would love to hear others thoughts on my 4 predictions for the future!

BKK is fine for transit and for J pax includes a massage. Seating out of Australia is now all angled lie flat (the occasional old config 747 has been seen recently but SQ equipment swapping is just as frequent of late). 'Budget' J is priced accordingly and normally significantly cheaper than SQ.

 

[arraitch]

BKK is fine for transit and for J pax includes a massage. Seating out of Australia is now all angled lie flat (the occasional old config 747 has been seen recently but SQ equipment swapping is just as frequent of late). 'Budget' J is priced accordingly and normally significantly cheaper than SQ.

Different aspects will be of greater or lesser importance to different people. As self-funded leisure travellers, bang for buck is paramount. We've just returned from flying J on TG PER-HKT-BKK-BLR, returning DEL-BKK-PER, booked as award flights by redeeming US miles. The F & B offerings were OK but not memorable, the service a little rushed and lacking in some finesse, albeit that the crews were obliging. The seating - even if only in regional configurations - was spacious enough, priority luggage worked (apart from at PER!) the BKK transit efficient and the massage most pleasant! Would we spend $4-5K on cash fares? No, but then we wouldn't pony up the extra cash to fly J on SQ, let alone QF. OTOH, JQ just makes us shudder! So, TG worked for us.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

. The F & B offerings were OK but not memorable, the service a little rushed and lacking in some finesse, albeit that the crews were obliging.

To be honest I don't see the food on QF on BKK/SYD being any better than Thai. Thai at least offer a full hot breakfast.

 

[ReLoad]

I've flown Thai J, MEL-BKK-CCU. the MEL-BKK legs in J of course are very good, the BKK-CCU is ok without being great, an A300 with regional J product which can only be described as "adequate".

Meals were good, just watch out for the terrible departure times (1am) from CCU on the return.

 

[arraitch]

, just watch out for the terrible departure times (1am) from CCU on the return.

And from BLR and BOM and HYD and MAA, as well as one of the two flights from DEL ... you'll never guess why we chose the other one!

 

[cmon0005]

CX have similar timings in terms of layover to SQ, however seem pretty competitive at $1180 round trip!

Never thought of CX, just checked their flight timings seems the min end to end timing is 21 hours.

Y and J pricing is quite reasonable. Why aren't QF using CX more on this route? seems logical using more of a OW partner than a codeshare partner (9W).

 

[markis10]

Never thought of CX, just checked their flight timings seems the min end to end timing is 21 hours.

Y and J pricing is quite reasonable. Why aren't QF using CX more on this route? seems logical using more of a OW partner than a codeshare partner (9W).

I don't think the fact CX used to be an AN partner has been forgiven by some.......

 

[dajop]

I really don't see how removal of 3 services (or was it 4?) a week from SIN-BOM restricts choice significantly and really limits options that much. At the end of the day there is still choice, but it just may be not with QF. Tough, if you don't like what QF offer - jump ship.

One of the big problems with the QF services to BOM, is that is to one city, the other problem was that it wasn't daily. To support India services effectively you need to serve more than just BOM, as it is just one city in India (albeit the biggest and most commercially focussed), but it really not the most pleasant place to transit, especially if heading backwards (eg to BLR, HYD, MAA etc).

Why SQ, TG, MH etc services work well is that they allow connections from a range of Australian cities to a range of Indian cities with just one stop and no bus transfers involved (except for at BKK in many instances where standoff bays are common!). IMHO, without significant onward connections (such as to Middle East or Europe) SYD-BOM is even more problematic than SIN-BOM for QF, as it doesn't service MEL/BNE/PER/ADL any better than SQ does and doesn't provide any better service to SYD pax other than just to BOM, for MAA/BLR/DEL etc it is probably inferior due to the connection at BOM.

There is also EK that services a wide range of Indian cities, and although involving backtracking it may be better than long layovers.

 

[markis10]

Perhaps it was an early reaction by QF to the reintroduction of Air India to SYD?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Perhaps it was an early reaction by QF to the reintroduction of Air India to SYD?

noooooooooooooooooooooo.....................

I'd happily transit 12hrs in SIN or HG to avoid Air India.
once Malaysian join OW mid-2012, I think they will by far be the best option for travelling into India - to multiple city destinations also.

 

[dajop]

Perhaps it was an early reaction by QF to the reintroduction of Air India to SYD?

Haven't seen anything about Air India to SYD. But will it ever happen? MEL-DEL has been on/off again for quite a while, IIRC they have approvals but it was waiting for 787 deliveries.

 

[markis10]

Haven't seen anything about Air India to SYD. But will it ever happen? MEL-DEL has been on/off again for quite a while, IIRC they have approvals but it was waiting for 787 deliveries.

Q3 is the word from the refuellers, a tussle over fees at present!

http://afr.com/p/national/sydney_challenges_melbourne_for_bPWqqGH9juH1KRTaW8vaBN

 

[cmon0005]

I really don't see how removal of 3 services (or was it 4?) a week from SIN-BOM restricts choice significantly and really limits options that much. At the end of the day there is still choice, but it just may be not with QF. Tough, if you don't like what QF offer - jump ship.

More so from a Business traveller perspective it does, even the Jetairways codeshare is now out of timings, it used to arrive about 7:30am in SIN, then a QF flight use to leave at around 9am, for a pretty seemless flight. Now QF10 leave @ 8pm, which means that QF's 3 services a week are out from may Jetairways daily services to SIN are over 12 hours stopover for a connecting QF flight. So realistically 10 flights a week are now 'on the wrong side of the market' (3 being QF, 7 being Jetairways) for Business/consumer travellers alike.

With Kingfisher's financial woes lately & IATA suspension we may well see that route gone too in the future via IT Kingfisher, (They have great domestic connections all over india as do Jetairways).

Regarding 'jumping ship' we didn't have to jump ship QF dismantled the ship before we could jump!!!

 

[cmon0005]

noooooooooooooooooooooo.....................

I'd happily transit 12hrs in SIN or HG to avoid Air India.

Same here!! D