Issues with Oz Medicine and a Potential Medical Practitioner meet-up

[JohnK]

Being clinically depressed is not fun and makes life a challenge.

Medications do help but stay away from anti-depressants.

Our health system refuses to acknowledge it is a serious issue and does not how to deal with it. A good friend committed suicide 2 weeks ago and went to 2 different hospitals in the 5 days prior to the suicide and was released without treatment. He should have been kept for further observation. I don't like to be critical of doctors but how the hell they released this person without further observation is beyond my comprehension.

His boss could see he was suffering from depression.

His family could see he was suffering from depression.

Yet the nurses and doctors in both hospitals thought he would be fine. I know people suffering from depression are unpredictable but hope someone informs the doctors who supposedly treated my friend that he committed suicide so it is on their conscience.

Cruel? I don't think so but you are entitled to your own opinion....

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

...doctors who supposedly treated my friend that he committed suicide so it is on their conscience.

Doctors have a conscience about their patients??? This is novel - I thought it'd be both unprofessional and inhibitory for doctors to have any sort of conscience on the people which they treat.

 

[medhead]

Doctors have a conscience about their patients??? This is novel - I thought it'd be both unprofessional and inhibitory for doctors to have any sort of conscience on the people which they treat.

I could say so many things about this but won't. Probably the most reasonable thing to say is that there are many very dedicated doctors who sometimes get caught up with the task at hand and lose sight of the bigger picture.


Sent from the Throne

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The mental health crisis in Australia was caused by the state governments passing on the burden of care to the individuals family. The state governments will argue this was "better" for the patient, but some would argue it was more of a cost saving measure. In most cases it probably was/is better for the individual. But as a result, when a person requires the help of specialist services in mental health they now can't find the help required because the mental health services have been stripped back and emergency departments usually don't offer the specialist help required. My Sister is mentally ill and will probably need some supervision for the rest of her life and because of the cost saving measures by state governments, she will probably have to live with a family member for the rest of her life as the support services are not up to scratch.

 

[thewinchester]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The mental health crisis in Australia was caused by the state governments passing on the burden of care to the individuals family. The state governments will argue this was "better" for the patient, but some would argue it was more of a cost saving measure.<snip>

Oh don't get me started on the state of the mental health system - it's one of the biggest jokes going.

For a start, our current PM in her wisdom slashed the Better Mental Health Care Access program under Medicare, reducing the number of consults and additional consults that can be received a year subsidised by Medicare.

Then of course we have a medical profession which isn't properly trained across the board to detect mental health issues. The only reason why mine was detected was due to being a patient of a specialist young adult medical practice, and the fact I presented querying my own state in light of developments both personally and otherwise.

And while some states have moved to stengthen community mental health services, this is not universal. Nor does their existance half the time get widely published making awareness and access for relevant members of the public hard. Unless you have some good google-fu or happen to have a conversation with someone who is in the no, you'd be hard pressed to find out about their existence.

Then we touch on what I mentioned earlier in respect of the poor understanding and education within most workplaces of mental health impacts. A report released yesterday places the economic costs of just male mental health over AUD 3bn annually.

This quote from one of the report's authors is of particular note:

"Addressing poor mental health in the workplace through early detection and diagnosis has clear benefits to business, including avoiding the costs of absenteeism and potentially reducing the flow-on effects to co-workers by not having to carry additional work tasks."

I'm lucky in a way that mine isn't anywhere near severe as your sister; and thankfully I'm still able to function as a human being without any assistance, and was able to source assistance and treatment myself. However, for every one person who is suffering and capable there are most likely 10 that aren't. What happens to these people?

Currently, they fall through the cracks. In a nation as prosperous as ours, there's simply no plausible or valid excuse for this happening to those with mental health problems, let alone any other illness and disease.

 

[JohnK]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Doctors have a conscience about their patients??? This is novel - I thought it'd be both unprofessional and inhibitory for doctors to have any sort of conscience on the people which they treat.

If they are serious about their profession then I believe they would.

 

[Princess Fiona]

If they are serious about their profession then I believe they would.

Yes JohnK and the vast majority are.
In fact it is stated in the Declaration of Geneva, versions of which are taken by almost all medical students upon graduation
http://ama.com.au/node/2474
For most of us the words still have meaning in our daily practice

 

[beardoc]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Yes JohnK and the vast majority are.
In fact it is stated in the Declaration of Geneva, versions of which are taken by almost all medical students upon graduation
Declaration of Geneva - 2006 | Australian Medical Association
For most of us the words still have meaning in our daily practice

For what it is worth, I didn't take a pledge when I graduated. It just wasn't done.

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I did a bit of training in the theory of the public service and all that. As such I think that you need to look further than government to find why so many areas, including mental health are unfunded. Basically the public don't want to pay for it, they don't want to pay the taxes that are required to pay for services. There are plenty of recent examples of this on AFF.

 

[kpc]

Yes JohnK and the vast majority are.
In fact it is stated in the Declaration of Geneva, versions of which are taken by almost all medical students upon graduation
Declaration of Geneva - 2006 | Australian Medical Association
For most of us the words still have meaning in our daily practice

I took it...and whilst the Public Hospitals in NSW (and Australia for that matter) are very sick due to insufficient funding, I still try and uphold the principles mentioned despite the lack of resources provided by my hopsital.

 

[kpc]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I did a bit of training in the theory of the public service and all that. As such I think that you need to look further than government to find why so many areas, including mental health are unfunded. Basically the public don't want to pay for it, they don't want to pay the taxes that are required to pay for services. There are plenty of recent examples of this on AFF.

Actuallly, there is a lot of truth in the above. My (simplistic) solution to healthcare in Australia is to have government (federal), not state and federal, managing health, get rid of all the private hospitals (they just cherry pick the easy cases), increase the medicare levy, and to have a means tested user pay system (with annual caps) for all health matters, allocation of only one GP that you can see, and you can only change for a number of valid reasons.....don't want to debate this online but happy to discuss over a drink or two

 

[JohnK]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Yes JohnK and the vast majority are.

Yes Princess Fiona. I know the majority do care and show it with their actions.

Then there are those that do care but do not bother to show it with their actions.

Then there are those that do care but for whatever reason are not allowed to show it with their actions.

Assuming as a doctor you take an oath to help people then I cannot understand what is happening in our public hospital system. I had a "mild" heart attack (it did not feel mild at the time) in 2003 and spend 5 days in Canterbury Hospital including 2 days in intensive care.

Now I have visited Canterbury Hospital many times before and many times after. On one occassion I went to hospital around midnight and gave up and went home around 6:00pm and had not been seen. I was there a couple of months ago when was dad was very ill and we were there for around 2 hours and then left. Not one person was taken inside for treatment of any kind.

Now I did say I spent 2 days in intensive care. What I saw is absolutely disgusting and how anyone can excuse it is beyond my comprehension.

- Doctor goes to bed such and such and treats "emergency" patient.
- Doctor comes back to "triage" and for the next 5-15 minutes is laughing an carrying on with nurses, other doctors not about work but what they got up in this nightclub or that nightclub and what they are going to do next weekend
- Doctor goes to bed such and such and treats another "emergency" patient.
- Doctor comes back to "triage" and for the next 5-15 minutes is laughing an carrying on with nurses, other doctors not about work but what they got up in this nightclub or that nightclub and what they are going to do next weekend

And this carries on and on and on and on while people are suffering outside.

Why? Is it some sort of politics at play here? Understaffed? Underpaid? Whatever excuse one can find is not really good enough for treating people like animals when you have taken an oath to help....

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Actuallly, there is a lot of truth in the above. My (simplistic) solution to healthcare in Australia is to have government (federal), not state and federal, managing health, get rid of all the private hospitals (they just cherry pick the easy cases), increase the medicare levy, and to have a means tested user pay system (with annual caps) for all health matters, allocation of only one GP that you can see, and you can only change for a number of valid reasons.....don't want to debate this online but happy to discuss over a drink or two

I don't know enough about the industry to have such a debate, so a discussion over a drink would be much better. But you're probably hitting a key point that we really should get rid of one level of government.

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Basically the public don't want to pay for it, they don't want to pay the taxes that are required to pay for services. There are plenty of recent examples of this on AFF.

Is the size of the tax revenue the real issue?

IMO, the problem is how the tax pie is spent!

 

[Princess Fiona]

Actuallly, there is a lot of truth in the above. My (simplistic) solution to healthcare in Australia is to have government (federal), not state and federal, managing health, get rid of all the private hospitals (they just cherry pick the easy cases), increase the medicare levy, and to have a means tested user pay system (with annual caps) for all health matters, allocation of only one GP that you can see, and you can only change for a number of valid reasons.....don't want to debate this online but happy to discuss over a drink or two

I think that you and I are on the same page

EDIT: Might just be me but we are veering very close to needing a new thread here

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Is the size of the tax revenue the real issue?

IMO, the problem is how the tax pie is spent!

There is a clear trend when you look at the literature of the public rejecting services that the government have previous provided and being unwilling to pay for those services. We are very much in a situation where the public determines what services they want from government and the services that they are prepared to pay to have. There are plenty of screams about being over taxed at the moment on both AFF and in the media, when in fact the tax pie is on the low side of it's historical average size.

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

There is a clear trend when you look at the literature of the public rejecting services that the government have previous provided and being unwilling to pay for those services. We are very much in a situation where the public determines what services they want from government and the services that they are prepared to pay to have. There are plenty of screams about being over taxed at the moment on both AFF and in the media, when in fact the tax pie is on the low side of it's historical average size.

Government these days seems to rejoice with introducing programmes that most people don't like or want!

My post has nothing to do with the tax rate, or the amount of tax revenue - it was making a point on how the money is spent.

In good times & bad times, there is never enough money!

 

[Simo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Public hospital system is staffed by some very awesome medical professionals that really live up to the ideals of the medical profession but are restricted by outside elements and people who have no idea about the medical profession/pressures but have a knowledge of business. This can end as an epic fail if the professional person is not given enough professional respect for what the job entails.

I work in communications and I have had to deal with people who can not understand why it can take 1 minutes or 2 hours to find that same fault.

 

[medhead]

My post has nothing to do with the tax rate, or the amount of tax revenue - it was making a point on how the money is spent.

and my point was that it is the public that ultimate determines how the money is spent. So if vital programs aren't funded it is not simply a case of point fingers at governments. The finger needs to point back at us.


Sent from the Throne

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

and my point was that it is the public that ultimate determines how the money is spent. So if vital programs aren't funded it is not simply a case of point fingers at governments. The finger needs to point back at us.


Sent from the Throne

You have me there medhead the people voted (along with a few Ind) the Govenment into power.......I agree, the finger should be pointed!

This issue is not one of party colour or name. All have been negligent and since both have been voted in & out over the years, I doubt the people can do much more....democracy, at it's best.