noise level in aircraft cabins

[trippin_the_rift]

The average aircraft cabin is anywhere from 70-110db (louder behind the engines).

A friend recorded it at 90db on a 773 ER last week behind the engines.
Considering the maximum recommended exposure is 2 hours @ 90db - why isn't there outcry on the effect this has to our hearing?

I suggested to Qantas years ago they should do a deal with Bose and fit out the entire first/biz class cabin with noise cancelling tech, but it fell on deaf ears.

 

[Sdtravel]

Dont they have some noise cancelling headsets in Y+, J & F
Its not bose but I thought they were noise cancelling headset in international or are you talking domestic?

 

[Buzzard]

The average aircraft cabin is anywhere from 70-110db (louder behind the engines).

A friend recorded it at 90db on a 773 ER last week behind the engines.
Considering the maximum recommended exposure is 2 hours @ 90db - why isn't there outcry on the effect this has to our hearing?

I suggested to Qantas years ago they should do a deal with Bose and fit out the entire first/biz class cabin with noise cancelling tech, but it fell on deaf ears.

Not surprising with those high db levels

 

[medhead]

Is that a workplace exposure standard? If so, it doesn't apply to passengers.

edit:

The first google document I found is http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au...rdForOccupationalNoise_NOHSC1007-2000_PDF.pdf

The date is old, so could be superceded. But that gives a noise exposure limit of:

3.1 The national standard for exposure to noise in the occupational environment is an eight-hour equivalent continuous A-weighted sound pressure level, LAeq,8h, of 85dB(A).For peak noise, the national standard is a C-weighted peak sound pressure level,LC,peak, of 140dB(C).

so 8h @ 85 dB(A).

so 4 hours @ 90 dB(A) gives a TWA (LAeq,8h) of 85 dB(A). That is from a calculator based on the OSHA (US) standard.

Calculator here:https://www.noisemeters.com/apps/occ/twa-dose.asp
Should be able to map out the noise exposure at varying levels and time periods.

As this isn't in playground, I'm ignoring the puns.

 

[straitman]

As the standards improve so does the aircraft insulation.
The airlines and manufacturers will always opt for the 'minimum' as the extra insulation is a weight penalty.
See the B744 vs A380. There is no reason why the B744 cannot be as quiet as the A380.

In a way it is equivalent to how a/c cabin fit-outs have improved over the years.

 

[Pleb Status]

How was the reading taken? I assume it was NOT taken with an iPhone app or similar?

 

[harvyk]

I suggested to Qantas years ago they should do a deal with Bose and fit out the entire first/biz class cabin with noise cancelling tech, but it fell on deaf ears.

Don't economy ears deserve to be in a safe environment? Especially as it was behind the engines that was the loudest.

That said personally, I'm not a huge fan of noise cancelling headsets. I find that if I listen to them for too long I start to feel sick.

 

[docjames]

This raises so many questions!

- Is there published data across aircraft type?

- Did "the friend" measure on a device such as an iphone or on a more accurate dB meter?

- What about OH&S for crew?


Yet another reason to fly F..... :mrgreen:

 

[Happy Dude]

I am an acoustic consultant so may have some knowledge here.

There is a significant difference between dB and dBA so it's important to ensure we're comparing apples with with apples. The A refers to a frequency weighting electronically applied by the microphone pre-amp to replicate the response to noise by the human ear.

Most hearing and noise criteria is in terms of dBA. It's generally true that hearing damage may occur when exposed to 90 dBA for more than (approximately) 2 hours. With regard to hearing damage, it matters not if it's a work place or not. It could be easily argued that the airline has a duty of care because you're in their care but definitely towards their staff too. If you're travelling for work then I guess your employer has some responsibility too. I would be amazed if all airlines haven't undertaken some kind of dosimetry test on their staff.

However I seriously doubt that cabin levels would approach excessive levels on a 773 ER. Why? In 2008, I was aboard a Rex SAAB 340 (prop) and noticed that it was terribly noisy. I happened to have my sound level meter and measured approximately 86 dBA (or 106 dB) - just exceeding 85 dBA but the flight was nowhere near 8hrs. No plane I've been on prior or since has made me want to bring out the SLM.

I suspect that Trippins friend used an iPhone app or similar but I would not be entirely dismissive of the result. Sure it's only indicative, but at the upper end of the levels measured by his friend, it could still be pretty uncomfortable.

I would think that most people who don't mind pretty loud headphone levels would be doing more damage to their hearing.

 

[basso]

Here's a paper that took measurements all over an A321. In-cabin noise levels during commercial aircraft flights | Ozcan | Canadian Acoustics I would have thought an A321 woulb be typical of a lot of aircraft around these days.

 

[moa999]

Just lucky QF doesn't fly the 777s.
Put a massive powerful engine that close to the aircraft - obvious result.

I always thought that 777-2/3 were far noisier than 747 (advantage of four engines)

 

[jb747]

As an aside....in an A380, on the upper deck, you can actually hear an aircraft pass over in the opposite direction. Of course, the very slight sound is never noticed in the cabin, but, in the coughpit, where you can see the other guy coming, it's quite evident.

 

[juddles]

Here's a paper that took measurements all over an A321. In-cabin noise levels during commercial aircraft flights | Ozcan | Canadian Acoustics I would have thought an A321 woulb be typical of a lot of aircraft around these days.

Seems one of the main findings there was that the worst source of high-level noise was the announcements, etc made by cabin staff!

 

[jb747]

Seems one of the main findings there was that the worst source of high-level noise was the announcements, etc made by cabin staff!

Interesting...I just despise PAs when I'm a passenger, and so I make my own as short and sweet as possible.

 

[medhead]

My comment about the workplace was about the applicability of a workplace noise standard to a non-employee. Not about whether or not the noise could cause hearing loss.

 

[Quickstatus]

Interesting...I just despise PAs when I'm a passenger, and so I make my own as short and sweet as possible.

Just on that point why do flight crew still make announcements about FL, heading etc. some of it a bit irrelevant. tidbits like equatorial turbulence is good., SO made comment about Lleyton Hewitt on the QF94 arriving on Jan20.. My ears would prick up a bit more if pilots mentioned things like amount of fuel used, if autoland going to be used, interesting geographical views such as Lord Howe Island. Number of pilots on board flying aircraft and maybe even total number of flying experience in coughpit

 

[jb747]

Just on that point why do flight crew still make announcements about FL, heading etc. some of it a bit irrelevant. tidbits like equatorial turbulence is good., SO made comment about Lleyton Hewitt on the QF94 arriving on Jan20.. My ears would prick up a bit more if pilots mentioned things like amount of fuel used, if autoland going to be used, interesting geographical views such as Lord Howe Island. Number of pilots on board flying aircraft and maybe even total number of flying experience in coughpit

Whilst I'm well aware that there are video systems in each seat, and never mention altitude, etc, some people don't really have much to say, so I guess it's filler.

Mentioning any particular turbulence will do nothing to calm the nerves of the many nervous flyers, so you're better off reminding people to keep the seat belts fastened at all times.

NEVER mention particular passengers that you are carrying. Everyone is entitled to their privacy.

Auto land won't be used, unless it's foggy. Geographical views...not much point if the weather precludes it. Tends to annoy those who can't see.

Flying experience? You can assume a lot in some airlines, and learnt yesterday in others. And some, haven't learnt yet.

As a general rule I make a welcome PA on the ground. Then I leave people in peace.

 

[Quickstatus]

Whilst I'm well aware that there are video systems in each seat, and never mention altitude, etc, some people don't really have much to say, so I guess it's filler.

Mentioning any particular turbulence will do nothing to calm the nerves of the many nervous flyers, so you're better off reminding people to keep the seat belts fastened at all times.

NEVER mention particular passengers that you are carrying. Everyone is entitled to their privacy.

Auto land won't be used, unless it's foggy. Geographical views...not much point if the weather precludes it. Tends to annoy those who can't see.

Flying experience? You can assume a lot in some airlines, and learnt yesterday in others. And some, haven't learnt yet.

As a general rule I make a welcome PA on the ground. Then I leave people in peace.

yes agree with privacy. The SO comnent about Lleyton Hewitt was about his match at the AOpen. He was not on the flight

 

[auskiwiflyer]

It was I that made the measurement. Yes I used an app on the iPhone, I did it because it really struck me how loud it was on this flight. I was in 29A on a 777-300.
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-300ER (77W)

Fortunately for me - I have Bose noise cancelling in-ear phones and they (incredibly) made it totally bearable, but this bird was intrusively *LOUD* with no hearing protection.

So yeah - it was really loud and a 15hour flight - surely not good for the ears - I am very surprised that this issue is not being looked at by govt/regulators/someone besides me.

Just another reason why I love the A380 - that bird is silent by comparison.

 

[marki]

It was I that made the measurement. Yes I used an app on the iPhone, I did it because it really struck me how loud it was on this flight. I was in 29A on a 777-300.
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-300ER (77W)

Fortunately for me - I have Bose noise cancelling in-ear phones and they (incredibly) made it totally bearable, but this bird was intrusively *LOUD* with no hearing protection.

So yeah - it was really loud and a 15hour flight - surely not good for the ears - I am very surprised that this issue is not being looked at by govt/regulators/someone besides me.

Just another reason why I love the A380 - that bird is silent by comparison.

ANR active noise reduction is particularly good for the lower frequencies generally under 300Hz. Speed birds can produce lots of noise at that level. Especially the older aircraft where the insulation is not as intact anymore. That's why the effect is so cool. the dotted line shows the attenuation with ANR compared to the continuous line with no ANR(Active Noise Reduction)