Oversold flights & operational upgrades

[Mattg]

I was wondering... if a flight has been oversold in economy class (meaning operational upgrades are required), how do airlines decide who gets the upgrade/s?

I realise this varies by airline, but is status generally the most important thing? What other factors would be taken into account - booking class? Order of check-in? Something else? And who would make the decision - a computer, or would the check-in staff on the day have a say?

Further to this, is there anything you could do as a passenger to increase your chances of an op-up if you know economy is oversold?

I'd be interested to hear from anyone with knowledge of how this all works!

 

[snabbu]

I believe PCV (Perceived Customer Value) has a lot to do with it these days.

 

[Milboo]

I received an Op Up on QF flying SCL - SYD because Y was oversold.

When I checked in, I had politely inquired about an upgrade to J. Was not possible but it was noted that the flight was oversold in Y and that if they needed to move anyone to J then I was at the top of the list on the basis of being QF Gold at the time.

I got the welcomed visit on-board asking me to move up to J. My friend did not get the same offer (she had not status).

 

[harvyk]

I do believe you are asking for the holy grail of airline ticketing algorithms.

I get the feeling it's more issued only if it really must be (so they are probably not about to pro-actively hand out upgrades just because a flight is overbooked, but perhaps more to do with if x number of people have checked in before Y time, start issuing out op-ups), and then it is issued only to those whom it'll cause the airline the least inconvenience to do so (so unlikely to go to those with special meals). So people traveling in groups of exactly the number of seats which need to be upgraded get first dibs.

Whilst I'm sure that status, perceived customer value and ticket price might factor into the calculation they are hardly the only factors involved, I am also aware of quite a few zero status flyers whom have been lucky enough. My own run of good luck (op-up's to J on SYD-SFO multiple times) happened when I was traveling as a PS on a Sale fare.

So whilst there is no doubt an official formula somewhere, without been privy to its details it's probably impossible to guess from this side of the counter.

 

[Himeno]

The first time I got an op up was on QF11 many years ago on an LONE4 ticket. I had a points upgrade into premium economy clear, so from a discount economy fare class into W on points. Then when I checked in for the domestic connection, I found I had been upgraded into J. I was bronze at the time.

I often get op ups on SYD-TYO.
One time I got an op up on SYD-NRT, then due to weather problems in SYD, the CBR-SYD kept getting pushed back. When I pointed out the misconnect issue to QF staff, I was rerouted via MEL onto CX and lost the upgrade in the process, only to get another op up as soon as I got to the CX MEL lounge.

 

[jb747]

It's decided by a computer algorithm...

 

[flyingfan]

Mattg in response to your theories I think 'all of the above' is probably true to some extent for many of the airlines out there.

I don't have direct inside knowledge but as far as I can tell from reports here and my personal experiences, status is one of the main factors in a whole basket of factors including fare, time of check in, whether you're travelling alone etc. I don't know if ordering a special meal really damages your chances but I'm confident that the old advice to dress up and look the part is bunkum, as is things like telling staff you want to go on standby for an upgrade or request a 'Suitable for Upgrade' code in your booking. Reports here are that the proactive onload system generates a ranking list for staff as recommendations but they can end up simply picking anyone quickly to deal with their oversold issue and this may not be the most highly ranked CLPO necessarily.

Don't think you can do much to increase your chances if you find out the flight is oversold; the factors contributing to your getting an op-up or not are mostly already set before you reach the airport I feel. You can of course increase your chances by choosing flights likely to be oversold. All my domestic op-ups have been at peak times on the MEL-SYD route.

I was flying MH MEL-KUL with my +1 on the cheapest Flight Centre price beat Y fares (we were both OWS at the time) and was very surprised to get op-ups for both of us to J. I thought I had Buckley's and that we'd be way down below MH's own elites, OWEs and flexi fares.

And a friend who was on CX and not even a member of their program went from Y to J on HKG-ADL on the cheapest fare, so it can seem largely random at times.

 

[Melburnian1]

I was once upgraded on MH and asked why. The female check in staff member said 'you looked presentable.'

I agree that on at least some airlines there is a degree of randomness about it, but the million dollar question is 'how much.'

It may help to book on busier days and perhaps on carriers with fewer businesspeople travelling, because maybe the chances then of too many in Y but many J seats vacant increase.

 

[Borisdog]

I got my first ever opup the other day on TSV-BNE on a red-e-deal. Y was full apparently ( B737 ) and they could sell another into Y so up I went. There were actually 2 other empty J seats - 1 of which was next to me!

 

[drron]

Sometimes it just happens.
Roughly 10 years ago we had no AA status at all.Were on award J flight NRT-LAX.Sitting in our J seats and gate agent comes on and asks if we would like to move.Mrsdrron was about to explode when I said "of course we would."The new BPs were in Row 2.So that upgrade to F confirmed to me that Aadvantage should be my major program.

 

[oz_mark]

I
Whilst I'm sure that status, perceived customer value and ticket price might factor into the calculation they are hardly the only factors involved,

I think you'll find that status and ticket price (or some proxy there of) are inputs into the calculation of perceived customer value (along with a whole bunch of other stuff)

 

[harvyk]

I think you'll find that status and ticket price (or some proxy there of) are inputs into the calculation of perceived customer value (along with a whole bunch of other stuff)

I was under the impression that PCV was calculated over many flights, and based on a range of factors. Similar to status but taking into account forward bookings, booking history, who booked the flights, things which gives the airline a "gut feeling" on how valuable you really are to them.

 

[ellen10]

We flew Premium Ec from Sydney on QF1 to LHR in early June. We had a points upgrade request in, but wasn't successful as was told J was full.
On the Dubai to LHR leg 2 passengers near us were upgraded to J. One an older lady and one behind us, a 20 y/o girl. Both were family of Qantas staff.

 

[Himeno]

We flew Premium Ec from Sydney on QF1 to LHR in early June. We had a points upgrade request in, but wasn't successful as was told J was full.
On the Dubai to LHR leg 2 passengers near us were upgraded to J. One an older lady and one behind us, a 20 y/o girl. Both were family of Qantas staff.

The 2 sector flights (SYD-DXB-LHR, MEL-DXB[soon PER]-LHR and SYD-LAX-JFK) have different availability for each of the 3 sector combinations on the flight.
ie SYD-DXB, SYD-LHR and DXB-LHR all have different availability.
It is possible that SYD-DXB was full, thus SYD-LHR was also full, even with space available for DXB-LHR.

 

[drron]

Though we had a J QFF RTW award.Couldn't get into J on the JFK-LAX leg.We were given first row of Y.A total of 7 premium pax and of course on the LAX-BNE leg we had our confirmed J seats.We did ask on checkin at JFK and when on board but no luck.And no return of points.

 

[ellen10]

The 2 sector flights (SYD-DXB-LHR, MEL-DXB[soon PER]-LHR and SYD-LAX-JFK) have different availability for each of the 3 sector combinations on the flight.
ie SYD-DXB, SYD-LHR and DXB-LHR all have different availability.
It is possible that SYD-DXB was full, thus SYD-LHR was also full, even with space available for DXB-LHR.

Yes I thought that may have been the reason. The young girl behind us (who got upgraded), didn't seem too keen to move, she had obviously had a big night and was already asleep when they woke her to move. She used a few **** words, because she had to move her 4 carry on bags.

 

[ellen10]

Though we had a J QFF RTW award.Couldn't get into J on the JFK-LAX leg.We were given first row of Y.A total of 7 premium pax and of course on the LAX-BNE leg we had our confirmed J seats.We did ask on checkin at JFK and when on board but no luck.And no return of points.

We had the same situation but going the other way. We had a J return award to NYC, but the LAX-JFK leg was in Y+.

 

[JohnK]

Sometimes it just happens.

So true. Like the time I was QF Silver and upgraded to Business on SYD-BKK flight on 747 and allocated 11K. And on the return flight BKK-SYD on 747 upgraded to Business at the gate and allocated 11K again.

Not easy to explain but I was on a 'B' class airfare that was purchased late in the piece and cost ~$1600.

 

[serfty]

This does not appear to be a QF specific question.

However, for Qantas, search this forum for the term "Proactive Onload".

With Qantas, since Altea was implemented, it's been an based algorithm akin to PCV if not PCV itself.

EK about 18 month ago switched from status to fare bucket.

I am not sure what method VA use.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

We flew Premium Ec from Sydney on QF1 to LHR in early June. We had a points upgrade request in, but wasn't successful as was told J was full.

On the Dubai to LHR leg 2 passengers near us were upgraded to J. One an older lady and one behind us, a 20 y/o girl. Both were family of Qantas staff.

Not sure what happens on multi leg flights whether you can get upgraded mid-journey ie DXB/LHR when you've requested SYD/LHR.

I'm assuming you ticked the opt-in box to upgrade at the airport if the request didn't clear ahead of time.

Staff only get upgraded after commercial pax with upgrade requests have been processed as the latter have a higher upgrade category than any staff leisure travel category.