Road Rule discussion

[SeatBackForward]

I can't recall if I posted this before but have NSW residents noticed the word 'merge' is disappearing from our roads? Signs used to say "Left lane ends Merge right" but they are all being changed to "Left lane ends Change lanes". Is that because people don't understand what 'merge' means?

It may have to do with an actual change of rule. Merge implies you weave together, but the recent rule change means, if your lane ends, you effectively have to yield to cars in the non-ending lane.

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: Grammar Discussions

It may have to do with an actual change of rule. Merge implies you weave together, but the recent rule change means, if your lane ends, you effectively have to yield to cars in the non-ending lane.

Can you clarify the rule change please? I am not aware of any change to the merging requirements.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Grammar Discussions

It may have to do with an actual change of rule. Merge implies you weave together, but the recent rule change means, if your lane ends, you effectively have to yield to cars in the non-ending lane.

I don't quite see the subtlety in the definitional differences.

Merge, as far as I would know, means many things coming together. For lanes, this means several lanes turning into (usually) one less than before. Lane line markings determine who has right of way in a merge - at least in QLD, a broken line between the lane which is merging into the new lane means that the merging traffic must give way to the lane which they are merging into. No line between the two lanes means that the vehicle which is in front has the right of way.

The rules may have changed, although suffice to speak, no line markings in merging lanes is pretty rare. In practice, if you are merging from a lane about to end, usually you will go at a speed which will allow you to merge into the new lane without stopping. If you couldn't do this, either you're moving too slow, the lane you're merging into has several vehicles, or you're stuck in traffic.

Changing lanes is certainly involved; most would, on average, understand "change" more than "merge".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Grammar Discussions

... no line markings in merging lanes is pretty rare.

Unfortunately not in melbourne... plenty of examples (including the Tulla freeway) where lanes merge/end without warning. I'd hate to be a driver unfamiliar with the road.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Re: Grammar Discussions

Can you clarify the rule change please? I am not aware of any change to the merging requirements.

I don't quite see the subtlety in the definitional differences.

Merge, as far as I would know, means many things coming together. For lanes, this means several lanes turning into (usually) one less than before. Lane line markings determine who has right of way in a merge - at least in QLD, a broken line between the lane which is merging into the new lane means that the merging traffic must give way to the lane which they are merging into. No line between the two lanes means that the vehicle which is in front has the right of way.

The rules may have changed, although suffice to speak, no line markings in merging lanes is pretty rare. In practice, if you are merging from a lane about to end, usually you will go at a speed which will allow you to merge into the new lane without stopping. If you couldn't do this, either you're moving too slow, the lane you're merging into has several vehicles, or you're stuck in traffic.

Changing lanes is certainly involved; most would, on average, understand "change" more than "merge".

I thought these were new rules introduced into NSW in Nov 2012, but turns out it was just one of the top ten misunderstood rules...

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/lanes.html

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Grammar Discussions

I thought these were new rules introduced into NSW in Nov 2012, but turns out it was just one of the top ten misunderstood rules...

Lanes - Road rules - Safety & rules - Roads - Roads and Maritime Services

Thanks for the heads up!

Victoria has a similar rule it seems... 'zip merging':

Zip merging

When you are zip merging, you must give way to a vehicle which has any part of its vehicle ahead of yours.
Zip merging is when two rows of vehicles merge into one, and there are no lines marked on the road.
You are not zip merging if you cross any lines marked on the road. If you do cross lines marked on the road you must follow the give way rules for changing lanes.

 

[Warks]

Re: Grammar Discussions

Wish they had the concept of zip merging in Vancouver. Terrible traffic on their freeways exacerbated by frequent lane terminations where no one knows how to merge properly. Was there last month and it was insane. You think of Canadians as mild-mannered, quieter versions of Americans but not on the roads! My sister has lived there 20 years and says it never gets any better.

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: Grammar Discussions

Most states have signed up to have common road rules. With the exception of state specific matters, such as hook turns in Victoria.

 

[basso]

Re: Grammar Discussions

Most states have signed up to have common road rules. With the exception of state specific matters, such as hook turns in Victoria.

Victoria takes it a step further having U-turns at traffic lights rules opposite to other states. As far as the Merging road signs go, I thought the problem was the signs were saying 'merge right', when in fact the road markings were about changing lanes.

 

[dougieboy]

Re: Grammar Discussions

"All i wanna do is to thank you, even though I don't know who you are. You let me change lanes while I was driving in my car"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfRNZucoCyw&list=FLoEpdYrejnWqK1FgjISrGOg&index=3

 

[RB]

Re: Grammar Discussions

Thanks for the heads up!

Victoria has a similar rule it seems... 'zip merging':

New Zealand have these signs

 

[burmans]

Re: Grammar Discussions

New Zealand have these signs
View attachment 52185

Way too practical for us!

 

[anat0l]

Re: Grammar Discussions

I don't get that signboard.

How hard can it be? If in a "zip merge" situation, if a vehicle is ahead of you, you must give way.

 

[SeatBackForward]

My biggest merging frustration is on motorways, where the drivers joining the motorway slow down if they can't find a gap to slot into.

Do they not realise you then need an even bigger gap???

But of course there is no way that road authorities could ever promote the idea of accelerating to join motorways, not after years of telling us to show down, even signage along the lines of "join at motorway speed" would be suspect.

 

[medhead]

It all depends on the road markings. If there is nothing, i.e. the lane dividing line ends then zip merging, car in front has right of way. If there is a dotted line from the centre line to the edge of the road then the car that has it's lane cut by that line has to give way.

In that second situation if it says merge right, then it might be misleading as the car in that left lane, that has to give way, can't just merge.

That NZ sign is slightly wrong, zip merging may not mean alternating cars. It could very well be that a slow moving car has two or more cars in the other lane in front of it.

It may have to do with an actual change of rule. Merge implies you weave together, but the recent rule change means, if your lane ends, you effectively have to yield to cars in the non-ending lane.

 

[moa999]

Re: Grammar Discussions

New Zealand have these signs
View attachment 52185

Was about to post a comment about those signs.
Simple and effective

 

[Hvr]

Re: Grammar Discussions

New Zealand have these signs

They're also on freeway entrances here in Victoria, aka ramp signals and they're turned on in peak hour.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Re: Grammar Discussions

They're also on freeway entrances here in Victoria, aka ramp signals and they're turned on in peak hour.

In NSW, well Sydney's M4 anyway, they will be introduced soon enough, under the term "managed motorways"

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/projects/sydney-west/m4/index.html

 

[RB]

My biggest merging frustration is on motorways, where the drivers joining the motorway slow down if they can't find a gap to slot into.

Do they not realise you then need an even bigger gap???

But of course there is no way that road authorities could ever promote the idea of accelerating to join motorways, not after years of telling us to show down, even signage along the lines of "join at motorway speed" would be suspect.

Maybe the joining lanes are too short?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Maybe the joining lanes are too short?

In theory, all merge lanes should be designed to specifications that will set the required lengths, so this shouldn't be an issue. I think its mainly that when there's a problem the instinct is to slow down when actually this makes it worse.