Wind Generation and the Electricity Grid

[RAM]

And so it starts...

Note the threat from the SA Govt has worked wonders for Pelican Point (thanks Engi!)

Ok - the guessing comp is now open - What will be the max power production we see today Aust-wide?

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

It aint windy here today in Adelaide.

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I've added the 9am Total line to the bottom so you can see the overall changes.

BTW NEM time is non-daylight saving EST

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

11.00am NEM (= Mid-day AEDST)

9am Total line shown at bottom of image.

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Bottom Line shows figures for 9am NEM time.

SA has gone from generating 1,664 MW to 2,323 MW of generation so far today.

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Hot enough yet?

SA squeezing every drop, from 9am @ 1,664 MW to 2,409 MW of generation and rising.

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I see both QLD and SA are ramping up the diesel for power generation.getting close to the limits?

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Take the strain!

 

[RAM]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

So far the power in our part of Sydney is still on...

Watch SA power ahead!

A little disturbed to see that Qld is burning kerosene to generate 300+ MW, strange that the Govt cannot request one of the LNG plants to slow output by 10% to save 300 MW... Especially given the price they pay for electricity.

Donors 1 Community NIL!

 

[cove]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I did hear that a major wool scourer in Adelaide had to stop processing work when the power price went up to a hair raising level. That is all the SA news we heard in Perth. Demolishing the Adelaide power station is not looking like the smartest move of 2016.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I did hear that a major wool scourer in Adelaide had to stop processing work when the power price went up to a hair raising level. That is all the SA news we heard in Perth. Demolishing the Adelaide power station is not looking like the smartest move of 2016.

The problem with the national grid, is a provider has a gas power station in SA but also owns another power station in NSW or VIC with spare capacity.

Because the provider refuses to fire up the power station interstate despite a request from SA for power, the price spikes in SA.

Then that same company extorts money from SA consumers.

Yay unchecked capitalism.

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The problem with the national grid, is a provider has a gas power station in SA but also owns another power station in NSW or VIC with spare capacity.

Because the provider refuses to fire up the power station interstate despite a request from SA for power, the price spikes in SA.

Then that same company extorts money from SA consumers.

Yay unchecked capitalism.

If only it were so simple.The National electricity Market requires mandatory participation-

The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) operates the NEM. The NEM is an energy-only gross pool with mandatory participation. Generators sell all of their electricity through the market which matches supply to demand instantaneously. From the generators’ offers, the market determines the combination of generation to meet demand in the most cost-efficient way. AEMO then issues dispatch instructions to these generators.

AEMC - National Electricity Market

The problem is we have a transmission system that was designed for predicable base load production.It cant cope with excessive input from variable producers eg wind and solar.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

According to the Melbourne Energy Institute the electricity market was gamed.

The analysis found fossil fuel generators may have withheld electricity at “strategic” times during 2015, causing massive price spikes, which have led to a $30.3m windfall.
The report also found evidence of similar practices from generators on 7 July that saw more price spikes, suggesting the so-called “energy crisis” in South Australia was a result of a severe lack of competition in the state’s energy market.




Wholesale energy prices in South Australia have been rising sharply, mostly driven by increases in the price of gas.
In addition, there have been huge spikes in the short-term wholesale spot price of electricity, sometimes rising to the cap amount of $14,000 per megawatt hour – up from the usual figure below $100.
Some commentators have blamed the price spikes on windfarms in South Australia and argued it showed the risks of relying on renewable energy.
But a detailed analysis of some of those price spikes has suggested they were caused by fossil fuel power generators strategically withdrawing supply of electricity for brief moments, pushing up the price they were able to charge for supply of electricity.

The report was commissioned by the Australian Conservation Foundation. ACF’s chief executive, Kelly O’Shanassy, said: “South Australia should go further – a big solar thermal plant with storage would deliver power day and night and challenge the monopoly of gas generators.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ergy-companies-gaming-the-system-report-finds

 

[cove]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Manufacturers in SA must be feeling quite let down to be paying high electricity prices. In SA we used an expert advisor to rejig our light and power usage to avoid this mess. LED lights, controls on machines and a goood sized solar system have all helped.

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

According to the Melbourne Energy Institute the electricity market was gamed.






https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ergy-companies-gaming-the-system-report-finds

The Guardian and the ACF.Definitely no interest in pushing the renewables faith.
You also realise that turning a constant supply generator such as coal and gas is not cost efficient so increases their costs.Also that as more wind power was added in SA that cost inefficiency increased.
All moot anyway as the regulations have changed since then and will change again this year.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Manufacturers in SA must be feeling quite let down to be paying high electricity prices. In SA we used an expert advisor to rejig our light and power usage to avoid this mess. LED lights, controls on machines and a goood sized solar system have all helped.

Angry more like. And keep telling us. BHP particularly.

 

[whatmeworry]

After the SA blackouts last year, the PM and his ministers were told it was not the renewables at fault. Question time will be fun today.

Turnbull government statements blaming last year's South Australian blackout on its high renewable energy target ignored confidential public service advice stating that it was not the cause, according to emails obtained under freedom-of-information rules.
With a febrile debate over renewable energy versus coal-fired generation suddenly raging in Canberra, the revelation is set to undermine the Coalition's energy messaging and shatter confidence in its call for investment certainty through sober debate and bipartisan policy solutions.

That email, sent to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's own officials and others, conveyed the first-blush assessment of the blackout including advice gleaned from the Australian Energy Market Operator: "There has been unprecedented damage to the network (ie bigger than any other event in Australia), with 20+ steel transmission towers down in the north of the State due to wind damage (between Adelaide and Port Augusta). The electricity network was unable to cope with such a sudden and large loss of generation at once. AEMOs advice is that the generation mix (ie renewable or fossil fuel) was not to blame for yesterday's events – it was the loss of 1000 MW of power in such a short space of time as transmission lines fell over."

Yet within hours of the calamity the Turnbull government was capitalising on the blackout, suggesting it was a function of the state's unsustainably high quotient of wind generation which had failed to keep working in the conditions.
Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce led a chorus from Canberra about the state Labor government's "unrealistic" energy policies and was quickly joined by other senior ministers including Energy and Environment Minister Josh Frydenberg and Mr Turnbull.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and ministers were told wind not to blame for South Australia blackout

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread




(filler)...

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

If only it were so simple.The National electricity Market requires mandatory participation-

AEMC - National Electricity Market

The problem is we have a transmission system that was designed for predicable base load production.It cant cope with excessive input from variable producers eg wind and solar.

:?:

I am not aware of any recent occasions when the transmission system has failed due to "excessive input". The two major blackouts in SA in recent months have both been unrelated to solar/wind. The first one was due to 20-odd transmission towers collapsing due to a storm event, thus bringing down the network. The most recent one was due to a failure to operate a gas fired generator that was ready and waiting. Ostensibly for financial gain.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I believe when it is too windy that the windmills need to be turned off. Whether that is because maybe they will become new flying missiles or they will generate too much energy - well - who knows. We are currently being treated like mushrooms anyway and I don't trust anything any politician says these days. Scarily - I reckon Pauline Hanson might actually be the one to state the facts.