LAX car hire

[rrian]

I have hired cars all over the world over the last half century, including Rome, Athens, London, New York, Los Angeles and Hawaii without a problem. Late last year I booked a car through CarTrawler of Dublin online for delivery and return from/to Thrifty US at LAX prepaid. Details are below. Inclusions in the voucher then received by email from Best Price Car Hire were the best offered by CarTrawler including breakdown assistance, collision damage waiver, theft waiver, and third party liability protection. plus 'other fees'. At Thrifty US near LAX on 20 November 2009 I produced the voucher and was told that this fell short of maximum insurance coverage and that full coverage including such things as removal of the vehicle from a crash scene was an extra. I was told that full insurance coverage apart from what I agreed to pay for a vehicle upgrade (at well over double originally offered by CarTrawler) was approximately US$500. After a 14 hour flight from Sydney, I was in no mood to argue after being told I was getting 'a good deal' and not wanting problems in a foreign land. I knew there was an overcharge somewhere but don't know where, and have since put it down to experience until reading other recent sad experiences of car hire.

CarTrawler reservation number:US183220960Car rental agent confirmation number:F13PZ1

 

[drron]

I have hired cars all over the world over the last half century, including Rome, Athens, London, New York, Los Angeles and Hawaii without a problem. Late last year I booked a car through CarTrawler of Dublin online for delivery and return from/to Thrifty US at LAX prepaid. Details are below. Inclusions in the voucher then received by email from Best Price Car Hire were the best offered by CarTrawler including breakdown assistance, collision damage waiver, theft waiver, and third party liability protection. plus 'other fees'. At Thrifty US near LAX on 20 November 2009 I produced the voucher and was told that this fell short of maximum insurance coverage and that full coverage including such things as removal of the vehicle from a crash scene was an extra. I was told that full insurance coverage apart from what I agreed to pay for a vehicle upgrade (at well over double originally offered by CarTrawler) was approximately US$500. After a 14 hour flight from Sydney, I was in no mood to argue after being told I was getting 'a good deal' and not wanting problems in a foreign land. I knew there was an overcharge somewhere but don't know where, and have since put it down to experience until reading other recent sad experiences of car hire.

CarTrawler reservation number:US183220960Car rental agent confirmation number:F13PZ1

Sounds like a scam to me.My tip in the good ole USA if something like this happens is to ask the agent if they have the contact addresses and emails of the relevant state attorney general and the federal attorney general.They then think you will be making an official complaint.They may very well back off.Not too late to make an official complaint through these channels now.
Also let Car Trawler know-they dont want their clients being ripped off.

 

[Dave Noble]

That those items were included does not mean that full coverage was taken

e.g. At Hertz in Australia, taking LDW brings down liability for damage down to $300 ; MAX cover is needed to drop it to zero. You may have had the items mentioned included but not had everything. You are not required to take out all the extras and could have said no

Was the $500 extra just for the coverage or coverage plus car upgrade and how many days was rental for?

Looking at the descriptions on the Thrifty site, it would sound like you had the "Risk Reducer" or "Risk Freedom" package , neither of which are the maximum coverage. the maximum coverage is "Risk Eliminator". It is not a scam if you had one of the lower 2 coverages and they told you you didnt have the full coverage package

 

[serfty]

I booked two car hires through Arguscarhire.com - search over 550 car hire suppliers worldwide for earlier this year. Who ended up being "Cartrawler".

At each stage of the booking process I printed and retained .pdfs as well of the inclusions. I had the printed copies with me when I collected the car at each location. The only addition I expected to pay at each rental was for a "full tank of Fuel".

Each time the car hire person tried to include insurance and other fees at pick up. Both times I was able to argue the insurances away by showing the inclusions documentation from the initial rental. Also, they tried to include state and various taxes. I was again able to argue most of these as descriptions were the same, but some I could not. They amounted to about $8 in each case.

One thing I could not avoid at pickup was the US$4 per gallon MIA thrifty were charging me for a full tank. The going bowser rate in the area was $2.80. Moreover, I had rented a class of vehicle with a gas tank size of generally no more than 12 Gallons - they had "upgraded" me to a vehicle with a 20 gallon tank. I complained about the pre-paid price and the agent stated (slipped?) "That what we charge for pre-pad gas on 'European' rentals". I asked to see a supervisor, who attended. But his attitude was along the line of "you want the keys? Then pay the gas!".

I was caught between a rock and a hard place and had been there for ¾ hour, so I "paid the gas". On my return to Australia, I followed this up with Argus and was re-credited USD45 by MIA Thrifty for the gas and the $8 in erroneous tax billed.

Both times left me rather exhausted; but I realise that if you want to hire a car in the USA, this is par for the course.

 

[rrian]

Thanx Serifty. I understand. This time I was dealing with a guy at Thrifty US at LAX who looked and sounded like Kojak. Very dominating. Hard to argue with after a 14 hour flight to foreign territory. I tried. It cost me over US $500 in additional insurances I don't think I needed. He was obviously on a commission. OK, it has cost me, but I ask others to be aware.
I agree with you concerning a full tank charge, rather than filling before returning the vehicle.

 

[rrian]

Where are you Dave Noble in response to my post? My reply to Serifty has been posted even fhough after yours. Do you need to check with Thrifty?

I intend to pursue this issue regardless.

Ian

 

[AdMEL]

e.g. At Hertz in Australia, taking LDW brings down liability for damage down to $300 ; MAX cover is needed to drop it to zero. You may have had the items mentioned included but not had everything. You are not required to take out all the extras and could have said no

Dave,

That's not technically correct - LDW is included in all car rentals in Australia (by law, as far as I undesrstand) but the excess is usually $3-5,000 ($3,300 in the case of Hertz). What you are referring to is Excess Reduction (ER), rather than LDW.

As far as I understand, US car rentals either have no LDW or full LDW with $0 excess. Legal or Third Party Liability (Often called SLI or ALI), Theft Protection, Uninsured Motorist Protection are extra again.

I'm about to hire a car for three weeks in SFO ... have checked all the third party brokers (primarily UK based, for some reason), but ended up going through Hertz, as I wanted a Camaro and Hertz guaranteed it and was cheaper than Avis. It remains to be seen to whether there are additional charges at pick-up (rate is shown as alll inclusive). Have had major arguments with Hertz over the last week about incorrect pricing on their website affecting this location and car only, but that's finally fixed.

 

[AdMEL]

I booked two car hires through Arguscarhire.com - search over 550 car hire suppliers worldwide for earlier this year. Who ended up being "Cartrawler".

At each stage of the booking process I preinted and retained .pdfs as well of the inclusions. I had the printed copies with me when I collected the car at each location. The only addition I experted to pay at each rental was for a "full tank of Fuel".

Each time the car hire person tried to include insurance and other fees at pick up. Both times I was able to argue the insurances away by showing the inclusions documentation from the initial rental. Also, they tried to include state and various taxes. I was again able to argue most of these as descriptions were the same, but some I could not. They amount to about $8 in each case.

One thing I could not avoid was the US$4 per gallon MIA thrifty were charging me for a full tank. The going bowser rate in the area was $2.80. Moreover, I had rented a class of vehicle with a gas tank size of genally no more than 12 Gallon - they had "upgraded" me to a vehicle with a 20 gallon tank. I complained about the pre-paid proce and the agent stated "That what we charge for European pre-pad gas". I asked to see a supervisor, who attended. But he stated along the line of "you want the keys? Then pay the gas!".

I was caught between a rock and a hard place and had been there for ¾ hour, so I "paid the gas". On my return to Australia, I followed this up with Argus and was re-credited USD45 by MIA Thrifty for the gas and the $8 in erroneous tax billed.

Both times left me rather exhausted; but I realise that if you want to hire a car in the USA, this is par for the course.

serfy, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully, I won't have these issues hiring direct from Hertz with an all up rate, as detailed above, but that reamains to be seen!

 

[MelUser]

I always rent through HERTZ in the USA as find them to be most transparent.

Yes it costs and sometimes all the insurances can close to doubling the car hire cost originally quoted - there are 3 - LDW, Liability (LIS) and Personal Effects.

But, in the US if you have an accident, you want insurance coverage.

I am happy to use Hertz and pay the insurances (hoping of course not to need them) as the US is somewhere it is better to be overinsured than underinsured.

 

[serfty]

...
Looking at the descriptions on the Thrifty site, it would sound like you had the "Risk Reducer" or "Risk Freedom" package , neither of which are the maximum coverage. the maximum coverage is "Risk Eliminator". It is not a scam if you had one of the lower 2 coverages and they told you you didnt have the full coverage package

Note that my travel insurance covered the only additional benefit that was the difference between "Risk Freedom" and "Risk Eliminator" (• Cash payment for property loss and accidental injury or death) that was not already included in the rate. (The "TRIPSAVER® 24-hour Roadside Assistance" is not required as "Breakdown Assistance" is already included.)

Here's what Argus typically include in the rate:

Collision damage waiver (CDW)            Included in Rate
Collision damage waiver (CDW) No Excess  Included in Rate
Third party liability protection (TP)    Included in Rate
Theft waiver (TW)                        Included in Rate
Tax                                      Included in Rate
Airport fee                              Included in Rate 
Unlimited mileage                        Included in Rate
Breakdown assistance                     Included in Rate

Another trick the rental company's do is try to charge Tax on the other 'fees'. See the following from the T&C's:

Insurance Coverage

      Collision damage waiver (CDW): (Includes Tax); Excess 0 USD

      Theft waiver (TW): (Includes Tax); Excess 0 USD

      Third party liability protection (TP): (Includes Tax)

And here's a typical "Rate Details" printout (I always try to NEVER collect a car without a copy):

• Argus Car Hire: "Rate Details"

​

 

[drron]

Again the thing to do is complain(it's an american thing).Only once in about 40 rentals using a third party prepaid voucher have I had to pay extra when picking up a car in the USA.The only time was Hertz last year at MSP.So when I returned the car in ORD I asked to speak to the manager-at first he wasn't interested but when it became obvious that this time I really was going to put in a complaint I had the amount refunded.
The only other problem has also been with Hertz getting an Intermediate car when paid for a full size-never been able to fix that one.

 

[rrian]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I will advise Cartrawler and ask Thrifty US for an explanation since I suspect I was slugged for a Thrifty insurance package that included the pre-paid insurances I already had. I had on three prior occasions some years ago hired cars in the US, as well as in Europe, and never had this kind of hard sell at pick up. Perhaps I was always lucky not to have had a prang or breakdown with a rental car to reveal any insurance inadequacies, and I certainly agree that the US is one country not to under insure when renting a car. In this case, I took all insurances offered me by Cartrawler (breakdown, CDW with no XS, TW and TP with all taxes paid) and received a voucher confirming on a THRIFY letterhead. This was produced at Thrifty’s LAX office where I noticed signs offering three insurance packages (possibly Risk Freedom etc) in very different terms from the Thrifty voucher I held. Very confusing, especially in a crowded office with a large man across the counter telling me loudly that I should take out one of the packages to be fully covered. He even mentioned some of the covers listed on my voucher and I pointed out that I already had them to which he replied that these covers did not include removal of the rental vehicle from a crash or breakdown scene. I gave in and was slugged an additional US695.71 inclusive of around $170 to upgrade from a Dodge Caliber to a Chrysler Sebring. I should add that the car was primitive in comparison with my VZ Holden Executive, and its cruise control was temperamental at best. I think too after this experience and from comments here and elsewhere that next time I will book a car in the US directly from Hertz.

 

[lovestotravel]

I always rent through HERTZ in the USA as find them to be most transparent.

Yes it costs and sometimes all the insurances can close to doubling the car hire cost originally quoted - there are 3 - LDW, Liability (LIS) and Personal Effects.

But, in the US if you have an accident, you want insurance coverage.

I am happy to use Hertz and pay the insurances (hoping of course not to need them) as the US is somewhere it is better to be overinsured than underinsured.

Exactly!

I do laugh at others who try to save $$ here and there and get stung when something isn't covered!

 

[serfty]

Exactly!

I do laugh at others who try to save $$ here and there and get stung when something isn't covered!

Why ... it's your duty to educate ... not laugh.

Look up thread ... the problem is when things ARE COVERED in the contract but denial of this is attempted on collection by an agent trying to upsell.

 

[lovestotravel]

Booked through some no-name agency and then ripped off.

Book direct and you are far far far less likely to have a problem.

Simple

 

[drron]

Booked through some no-name agency and then ripped off.

Book direct and you are far far far less likely to have a problem.

Simple

Not some no Name agencies but consolidators.As I said previously I have used these firms at least 40 times in the USA.Cars have come from Hertz,Dollar and Alamo.I once had a car shortened whilst in a hotel car park.Signed the forms and never heard another thing.Same insurances you get from the Rental firms direct.Definitely not a rip off.

 

[lovestotravel]

"I was told that full insurance coverage apart from what I agreed to pay for a vehicle upgrade (at well over double originally offered by CarTrawler) was approximately US$500."

Sounds like a rip off to me!

Much easier to book direct as I said.

Want to take the risk with a 3rd party go for it, but don't cry when you get stung for something.

 

[drron]

"I was told that full insurance coverage apart from what I agreed to pay for a vehicle upgrade (at well over double originally offered by CarTrawler) was approximately US$500."

Sounds like a rip off to me!

Much easier to book direct as I said.

Want to take the risk with a 3rd party go for it, but don't cry when you get stung for something.

You still dont get it.It was Thrifty doing the rip off not the third party.As i said the only time I needed insurance the third party insurance worked fine-unlike many of the stories you hear of the rental firms themselves.
I began using the consolidators as I was sick and tired of booking direct,getting a price with insurance and then finding undisclosed charges when fronting up to get the car.

 

[serfty]

"I was told that full insurance coverage apart from what I agreed to pay for a vehicle upgrade (at well over double originally offered by CarTrawler) was approximately US$500."

Sounds like a rip off to me!

Much easier to book direct as I said.

Want to take the risk with a 3rd party go for it, but don't cry when you get stung for something.

"Cartrawler" is not a no-name agency.

Read again - it seems apparent the OP was lied to and did not have the documentation on them to back themselves up. "removal of the vehicle from a crash scene" is not an extra - it was included in the original rate paid

I have had several bookings direct though the companies and have had the strong/lying/bulldust up sell on car collection there as well. These companies include Hertz, Avis, Thrifty, Dollar and Alamo.

One needs to know what they are buying ... and everything about what they are buying.

For what it's worth, see the Rate details document I linked to earlier. I generated that earlier this week. It differs from my original hire documents in that it specifically mentions TAX is included on most line items.

 

[rrian]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I wrote to Cartrawler and advised the circumstances. Fantastic service. A fast response advising that I had been substantially overcharged and that I would receive a refund within a few days. I did. I cannot recommend Cartrawler enough. I suspect that I was simply charged at the Thrifty US LAX depot for full insurances at without allowances for the insurances arranged through Cartrawler and noted on my car hire voucher, but both the counter clerk and I were under pressure from a backup of queueing customers. Thanks again to you all, especially for the advice to contact Cartrawler.