Crowded MEL J lounge

[YQY]

...

<The following may need a new thread - i'll leave it to the admins>
Red Roo - the size of the J Lounge in MEL is a concern - it's no bigger than the lounge in BNE but carries more passengers.When flights are delayed this leads to severe over crowding - what is QF's expansion startegy for the J Lounge in MEL?

Could I suggest that an additional J Lounge be opened in the pier that contains gates 1-11? Most large aircraft leave from this Pier as well.

 

[serfty]

Nice Idea; They are certainly constrained uptop.

The original QP was at that "Bubble" between Gates 1 and 3.

 

[Mal]

I guess it's all those freeloading DJ flying pax using Anytime Access...

<oops, they can no longer be blamed!>

No wonder they're doing door tallies in MEL. Must be wondering which benefit to enhance next!

 

[Pleb Status]

The removal of anytime access for WP has not made a noticeable difference to lounge numbers (in PER at least, where we all have to use the same lounge). But we all knew that was going to be the case (including QF).

Maybe Dom J lounge access should be restricted to WP travelling on Y, H, B and K class fares on QF (when in economy). All JQ passengers would need to use the QP. This would cut down the numbers.

 

[samh004]

I had a look on Google at a satellite image and couldn’t work out where the lounge started and ended, but think there could be room for the upper floor to be expanded… if I’m looking at the right spot.

The removal of anytime access for WP has not made a noticeable difference to lounge numbers (in PER at least, where we all have to use the same lounge). But we all knew that was going to be the case (including QF).

I recall that the area where too many WP’s used Anytime Access was actually international J lounges, not domestic lounges. Perhaps they could have split rules for international and domestic, though then things would have got complicated, so they simply removed the access for everyone.

 

[reductionist]

I agree. Something needs to be done/enhanced.

 

[Mal]

Maybe Dom J lounge access should be restricted to WP travelling on Y, H, B and K class fares on QF (when in economy). All JQ passengers would need to use the QP. This would cut down the numbers.

Is this another "Let's cut down the numbers of people in the J Lounge by doing X" (X being your usual travel patterns?) post???? Or do you usually travel in N/O/Q/E/S or Jetstar type fares and wish to remove yourself from the lounge?

In this situation, should someone be allowed in if JQ is the ONLY QF group plane flying to a destination?

People don't seem to realise that any reduction in the benefits of WP (or any other tier) is a degradation of the scheme, and a slippery slope that allows QF to keep "enhancing" things to their satisfaction (Hey they didn't complain about ... Let's now introduce ....)

 

[oz_mark]

I agree. Something needs to be done/enhanced.

Maybe they could take a leaf from the EK enhancement book :shock::mrgreen:

j/k

 

[Pleb Status]

Is this another "Let's cut down the numbers of people in the J Lounge by doing X" (X being your usual travel patterns?) post???? Or do you usually travel in N/O/Q/E/S or Jetstar type fares and wish to remove yourself from the lounge?

In this situation, should someone be allowed in if JQ is the ONLY QF group plane flying to a destination?

People don't seem to realise that any reduction in the benefits of WP (or any other tier) is a degradation of the scheme, and a slippery slope that allows QF to keep "enhancing" things to their satisfaction (Hey they didn't complain about ... Let's now introduce ....)

In this case, I would be excluding myself from the Dom J lounge. When traveling for Business, I travel in Y. When traveling for pleasure, I travel in O or N. Being based in PER where we do not have a Dom J lounge, I am in the QP when traveling in all classes ex PER, including J. I only get access to the Dom J lounge on the return leg from BNE/SYD/MEL and I would lose this access.

I had a feeling the only reason QF built these Dom J lounges is they were going to start to charge for drinks etc in the QP (like DJ did at the time). However, the GFC hit at the same time and passenger numbers dropped so QF decided that charging may not be a good idea anymore.

As I see it, the only real benefit of the Dom J lounge is the space. If there is no space, then you might as well sit in the QP.

I agree with you comments about the degradation of benefits, but expecting QF to build more and more space which does not earn them anymore income is unrealistic. My preferred solution is to abolish paid QP membership, merge the QP and Dom J lounge and raise the combined lounge service up to what Dom J offers now. If you want lounge access, earn it or fly in J.

 

[kpc]

Maybe they could take a leaf from the EK enhancement book :shock::mrgreen:

Shhhhhhhh...

 

[Mal]

expecting QF to build more and more space which does not earn them anymore income is unrealistic.

Interesting comments. Thanks for them - I'm not out to attack, but rather discuss (and you have read my post in the right way!). It does surprise me (for a change) that someone suggests something that doesn't benefit them directly (ie. Keep everyone out except for me!)

Now that the "freeloading scum" (and there was pretty much zero in the MEL J lounge due to it's location) have been removed there is still space problems. Now the space issues are caused by one of the following three issues:

- Too many J passengers
- Too many WP/OWE passengers.
- Too many guests.

I don't see that it is unrealistic that QF keeps expanding lounge sizes. They have set certain qualification tiers to get to WP (and other airlines have set the same for their tiers), QF gets income from other airlines in OW when their OWE members arrive, and also earn revenue from the flights that the people take.

So it's like a takeaway shop which ends up with more customers. More income = ability to expand and take over the shop next door. In MEL, they could cut into the QP space (but not sure how busy it gets), or they could expand.

Either way, I'm not convinced that it is unrealistic for QF to increase lounge size.

 

[Danger]

I guess it's all those freeloading DJ flying pax using Anytime Access...

<oops, they can no longer be blamed!>

Haha. That's gold.

Maybe Dom J lounge access should be restricted to WP travelling on Y, H, B and K class fares on QF (when in economy). All JQ passengers would need to use the QP. This would cut down the numbers.

I'll politely disagree (vehemently) with you on this one. Lounge access is already a hugely complicated thing, as the recent posts in the very long Platinum access ceases thread attest to, not to mention the plethora of footnotes on QF's lounge access table. I also see issues with a passenger not knowing (or being able to determine) where to locate the fare bucket they've been booked into. And to follow this track would require every non-J flying Platinum passenger who enters to have their booking reviewed by lounge staff, adding a reasonable wait time and, potentially, queues.

I recall that the area where too many WP’s used Anytime Access was actually international J lounges, not domestic lounges. Perhaps they could have split rules for international and domestic, though then things would have got complicated, so they simply removed the access for everyone.

I concur with your recollection but, as we all know, QF took it one step further and included every lounge for the removal of anytime access. I also think changing anytime access to international rather than domestic lounges would have been far easier and, I think, far more palateable. The QF lounge access table already has one column for international business lounges and another for domestic lounges (one each for Qantas Club and J) so I don't think it would have created a problem or a complexity. Simply, international J: must be flying QF . . . ; domestic J (or Qantas Club): anytime.

In this situation, should someone be allowed in if JQ is the ONLY QF group plane flying to a destination?

A very valid point, I feel.

People don't seem to realise that any reduction in the benefits of WP (or any other tier) is a degradation of the scheme, and a slippery slope that allows QF to keep "enhancing" things to their satisfaction (Hey they didn't complain about ... Let's now introduce ....)

Couldn't agree more.

 

[YQY]

The intent of this thread was not to create another "enhancement" or "platinum anytime access" thread.

The intent was to generate discussion of how Qantas can improve the J lounge in MEL.

IMHO the J Lounge in SYD is the flagship domestic lounge - where as the J Lounge in MEL seems like a 2nd class J Lounge. It's like comparing the F Lounge in SYD/MEL vs the F Lounge in LAX for instance - yes they are all F Lounges however they are chalk and cheese.

This may have a lot to do with the layout of the and ownership of SYD T3 by QF. I would feel mightly peeved if MEL was your home port and you did a lot of domestic travel.

So to iterate again - it's about improving the J Lounge in MEL rather than reducing access to the lounge.

 

[dk4]

So to iterate again - it's about improving the J Lounge in MEL rather than reducing access to the lounge.

Stage 1: Close the lower level walk way that connects the two airside piers, and force all those (few) who currently use it - up via the food court/shops and down the other side.

Stage 2: Build a new Lounge in this location.

Stage 3: Either move the CL or JL to this new downstairs lounge location.

Stage 4: Move the JL elsewhere (new downstairs lounge or current CL spot upstairs) & return its annexation back to the QP.

 

[reductionist]

So to iterate again - it's about improving the J Lounge in MEL rather than reducing access to the lounge.

It's difficult to discuss what improvements can be made to address an overcrowding situation without having the issue of reducing access on the table.

With the apparent financial situation QF is facing I just can't see them writing a cheque to acquire more space & fit it out.

 

[dfcatch]

In this case, I would be excluding myself from the Dom J lounge. When traveling for Business, I travel in Y. When traveling for pleasure, I travel in O or N. Being based in PER where we do not have a Dom J lounge, I am in the QP when traveling in all classes ex PER, including J. I only get access to the Dom J lounge on the return leg from BNE/SYD/MEL and I would lose this access.

I had a feeling the only reason QF built these Dom J lounges is they were going to start to charge for drinks etc in the QP (like DJ did at the time). However, the GFC hit at the same time and passenger numbers dropped so QF decided that charging may not be a good idea anymore.

As I see it, the only real benefit of the Dom J lounge is the space. If there is no space, then you might as well sit in the QP.

I agree with you comments about the degradation of benefits, but expecting QF to build more and more space which does not earn them anymore income is unrealistic. My preferred solution is to abolish paid QP membership, merge the QP and Dom J lounge and raise the combined lounge service up to what Dom J offers now. If you want lounge access, earn it or fly in J.

How about we do away with status based access and go with the American system of paid lounge access only?

Dom J lounges were introduced to have an improved offering for WPs and J pax. There are no paid lounge members in the J lounge.

The fact that the lounges are crowded means things are going well for QF (lots of J pax and lots of WP pax - who have spent lots with QF to earn WP status).

So it IS completely reasonable to expect QF to provide a decent lounge offering both in terms of space and service.

My solution to reduce crowding in ALL lounges is to reintroduce the guest-pass system and do away with the "automatic" guesting that instantly doubles lounge crowding.

 

[reductionist]

My solution to reduce crowding in ALL lounges is to reintroduce the guest-pass system and do away with the "automatic" guesting that instantly doubles lounge crowding.

I kind of agree with this. I also think that any time access should be re-introduced by giving WPs a small-to-medium sized amount of passes annually.

 

[tyrolean]

The removal of anytime access for WP has not made a noticeable difference to lounge numbers (in PER at least, where we all have to use the same lounge). But we all knew that was going to be the case (including QF).

Maybe Dom J lounge access should be restricted to WP travelling on Y, H, B and K class fares on QF (when in economy). All JQ passengers would need to use the QP. This would cut down the numbers.

Just close the lounges. No lounge, no crowd.

 

[Pleb Status]

How about we do away with status based access and go with the American system of paid lounge access only?

My solution to reduce crowding in ALL lounges is to reintroduce the guest-pass system and do away with the "automatic" guesting that instantly doubles lounge crowding.

My solution is to revert to the system that almost every airline in the world uses (excluding North America and QF) which is status access only (for economy). I do not believe you can buy access at CX, SQ, BA or even EK. With this system, there would be no need to have two domestic lounges at all, better utilizing the limited space available.

Building the Dom J lounges was a good idea which was poorly executed. It was always going to be a problem without a large amount of additional floor space. Putting a dividing wall into the existing QP and making two lounges was not going to do anything but take up the limited floor space, it was never going to create more.

 

[dfcatch]

My solution is to revert to the system that almost every airline in the world uses (excluding North America and QF) which is status access only (for economy). I do not believe you can buy access at CX, SQ, BA or even EK. With this system, there would be no need to have two domestic lounges at all, better utilizing the limited space available.

Building the Dom J lounges was a good idea which was poorly executed. It was always going to be a problem without a large amount of additional floor space. Putting a dividing wall into the existing QP and making two lounges was not going to do anything but take up the limited floor space, it was never going to create more.

Except that won't solve the problem entirely.

Paid QP members aren't causing lounge overcrowding.

Remember by definition - QP members aren't flying enough to earn SG/WP status. Therefore they aren't in the lounge that often.
What are they doing however is contributing their weight in $$$ to QF which goes towards funding lounge operations.
QP members further contribute on a visit by visit basis by virtue of revenue from their actual flights.

Status members also contribute on a revenue per flight basis, and given the high frequency of revenue generation they are granted lounge privileges.

Status members are, by definition, taking up seats in the lounge more often than QP members.

Also remember, that there are no paid QP members in the J lounge.
Only:
- J pax
- WP/OWE
- Guests

So cutting out paid QP membership won't solve overcrowding (even in a single merged lounge). All it will do is remove a generous revenue stream from the lounges.


In summary - whether people like the idea or not (including me); if you want to remove crowding you need to remove either:
A/ Status pax
or
B/ Guests

And given OW commitments, both have challenges.