Flight delayed out of JFK, will miss connection at LAX.

[AisleSeat]

Mrs AS is on QF12 JFK-LAX. Flight has been delayed 1 hour, meaning arrival to LAX will be 10pm.
This means she will miss her connecting QF94 LAX-MEL (departing 10.10pm).

What will QF do for her? I would hope a hotel at the least, given how late at night it is.

 

[kevrosmith]

They may put her on the flight to BNE and then a domestic connection to MEL. The BNE flight leaves at 11:20pm.

Aftually, more likely they'll keep her on QF12 through to SYD and then connect domestically to MEL.

 

[Melburnian1]

If you are talking about the Thursday 13 July departure of QF12 ex JFK, this is on a night when the second flight to MEL from LAX - QF96 - is not operating.

Normally QF will hold QF12 to SYD (the Airbus A388) in these circumstances and MEL-bound passengers (subject to seats being available) will travel on it and then a domestic SYD - MEL.

Occasionally they might have to travel on the Boeing 744 aircraft that operated QF12 from JFK and which continues as QF16 from LAX to BNE, then a domestic for two hours from BNE down to MEL.

It would be unusual for QF to provide her with an hotel room as provided spare seats are available, it is cheaper for QF (and faster for the passenger) to depart that night via SYD or BNE.

The MEL-bound QF94 at LAX is occasionally held for the late running QF12 from across the USA, but due to the close to minimum turnaround stipulated by the timetable in MEL in the morning, QF appears to prefer to let the MEL flight depart LAX on time as often as possible.

If you go back a few pages in the QF delays/ cancellations thread you will see some of the scenarios referred to by kevrosmith above, although bear in mind 'it depends' as to whether that second flight from LAX to MEL is operating (it is not a daily runner):

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ations/qantas-delays-cancellations-52193.html

 

[AisleSeat]

Thanks kevrosmith and Melburnian1

 

[Melburnian1]

AisleSeat, one pain for Mrs AS (and many other QF travellers from JFK bound for MEL when these frequent delays occur) is that because she has to clear immigration and customs (Border Force) in (most likely) Sydney, she may be somewhat delayed getting on a domestic flight depending on the queues through customs (and in an absolute worst case, being selected for further inspection.)

QF has a lot of experience in deciding what domestic flight to place her on, but there must be passengers who miss the designated connector and then have to again be rebooked. So one hopes Mrs AS will advise you in the morning which SYd - MEL domestic flight she is on, if it is done that way.

 

[AisleSeat]

Flight now delayed another 2 hours. Departing at 9pm

 

[kevrosmith]

I was in this situation a couple years back... flight out of JFK was delayed 4 hours due to a couple of flat tyres discovered after push-back. Fortunately, it was on the old QF108, which was B744 service from JFK-LAX-SYD, and my final destination was CNS via SYD, so the whole flight was late. I believe they held one of either the MEL and BNE flights in that instance, as they were asking people who had a connection to head directly to the other gate, indicating they'd get to their final destination on a domestic connection.

As soon as the delay became apparent, I rang the Call Centre while still onboard in JFK, and they moved me onto a later connection to CNS.

 

[Melburnian1]

As QF11 appears to have been delayed by 'weather' enroute - and quite badly, so presumably thunderstorms - I cannot see how QF12 will be departing from JFK at 2100 hours on Thursday 13 July.

This is what I posted in the QF delays/ cancellations thread:

Thursday 13 July's QF11 from LAX departed 72 minutes late at 0932 hours but unusually is showing as not arriving at JFK until 2000 hours, 200 minutes late. There are 'weather delays', presumably thunderstorms.

QF suggests that QF12 from JFK will depart at 2100 but this is likely to be wrong by at least 45 minutes. LAX arrival is unlikely before 0100 hours on Friday 14 July.

 

[vetrade]

Have experienced the same scenario you are facing AisleSeat. QF took us to SYD because we missed the LAX connection to MEL due to a mechanical problem at JFK. After already long delays just getting to SYD we then had an extra 7 hr delay waiting for availability to MEL. Got a food voucher in LAX ($20, I think) but after that there wasn't any effort at all to get us to MEL in reasonable time

 

[NoName]

This happens regularly from what I can established and in fact we had the same thing happen last year. On QF12 JFK-LAX and due to late departure of the QF11 flight from LAX we departed approx 2hrs late. Then then very next day when we were on QF16 to BNE we were delayed due to the flow on effect of another QF12 delay. Originally delayed by around 1.5hrs from memory but pushed out further and eventually left LAX at 3:40am.

 

[AisleSeat]

Looks like plane has departed JFK. She said she'll be staying on QF12. That sucks as now SC and points will be for one sector, not two as original itinerary. She was relying on that to pip over into silver.

 

[bismarck]

Looks like plane has departed JFK. She said she'll be staying on QF12. That sucks as now SC and points will be for one sector, not two as original itinerary. She was relying on that to pip over into silver.

You should be able to claim Original Routing Credit I think.

 

[Hvr]

Looks like plane has departed JFK. She said she'll be staying on QF12. That sucks as now SC and points will be for one sector, not two as original itinerary. She was relying on that to pip over into silver.

Not an issue, just ask for 'original routing credit' upon return.

 

[equus]

Not an issue, just ask for 'original routing credit' upon return.

Wait and see what posts first. As the booking would have the segments separately, they will not be combined when the QF94 is changed to QF12. I don't think the SC posting is any smarter than just posting each segment, so it may well do what you want automatically.

It was many years ago (so QF IT systems may have changed), but when I booked the same flight number deliberately as the two segments, rather than a single through segment (for just the same reason), it posted automatically just fine.

 

[AisleSeat]

Not an issue, just ask for 'original routing credit' upon return.

I had no idea you could do that.

This thread really is a great example of why this site rocks. Dropping $50 to support it is worth it. Yes, I realise I could've signed up today, started this thread and got answers for free.

 

[Melburnian1]

Have experienced the same scenario...QF took us to SYD because we missed the LAX connection to MEL due to a mechanical problem at JFK. After already long delays just getting to SYD we then had an extra 7 hr delay waiting for availability to MEL....there wasn't any effort at all to get us to MEL in reasonable time

You must have been unlucky for there allegedly not to be a spare Y seat available for seven hours down from SYD to MEL vetrade, but thank you for the report. Shocking!

On Thursday 13 July QF12 ended up departing JFK at 2145 hours instead of 1810, or 215 minutes late with estimated LAX arrival of 0040 hours on Friday 14, 220 late. QF12 to SYD is to be held with its estimated pushback to commence at 0130, or three hours late with Saturday 15 July SYD arrival suggested as 0905 hours, 165 minutes tardy.

Relatively unusually - perhaps because the Sydney and Brisbane-bound flights are busy and QF96 is not operating - QF94 is being held as well with departure looking like 0115 hours, 185 minutes late for a Saturday 15 July suggested arrival at 0950 hours, 175 minutes tardy. Once again QF93 (Saturday morning 15 July, the 0915 hours MEL - LAX) will be delayed in its departure.

QF16, the B744, should depart LAX at 0245 hours today - 205 late - but on a gate-to-gate basis should pick up a little time with BNE arrival on Saturday 15 forecast for 0915 hours, 185 minutes late.

vetrade and NoName, a cursory glance at the AFF 'QF delays/ cancellations thread' will confirm your astute observations that these delays are regular. They are worst westbound because at least QF12 and QF16 have more than minimum respectively A388 and B744 turnaround allowances included in the timetables in SYD and BNE. However the QF94 to QF93 transition in MEL is pretty tight so there is little leeway when 'the 94' is delayed.

 

[Himeno]

Normally, under the current schedule, there are 3 QF flights from Australia to LAX each day. A 747 from BNE (QF15/16), and A380s from SYD (QF11/12) and MEL (QF93/94). Some days there is a 4th flight, a 747 from MEL (QF95/96).
The LAX-JFK sectors of QF11/12 are operated by the 747 from BNE.

There tend to be delays to the return flights, often related to the JFK flight. There are a number of reasons for these delays, but they are most often caused by weather or ATC requirements in busy airspace on the transcon flight between two busy hubs. QF also sometimes holds the LAX departure to JFK when there are delays in customs and security.

The return flights from LAX to BNE, SYD and MEL are timed in order to make connections from JFK, however when there is a delay ex JFK, those connections can be impacted.

When there is a delay from JFK, the BNE flight will get delayed as QF16 uses the same aircraft as the QF12 from New York. If the resulting arrival in BNE is more then ~2.5 hours late, the next QF15 can also be delayed.

The QF94 is more likely to depart close to on time, even without the JFK connecting passengers as they only have ~2 hours with an on time arrival to turn the aircraft around in MEL for an on time departure back to LAX as QF93. They will only hold QF94 for connecting pax if the amount of people connecting is greater then can be handled by the other QF flights to Australia. On days where QF96 is operating, there is even less reason to hold QF94.

The A380 QF12 from LAX can depart before the 747 QF12 arrives from JFK. All that is required is changing the call sign so that there are not 2 "Qantas 12"s in the same ATC region at the same time. They will rarely do this however, due to the amount of people coming from New York and going through to Sydney usually being greater then the amount of seats available on the same aircraft once the BNE passengers starting at LAX are accounted for. If the load on QF16 is low enough to accommodate the connecting pax to SYD and MEL, there is no need to hold QF12 to SYD or QF94 to MEL.

If there is a long delay at JFK, and you are connecting in LAX to QF12 or QF94, depending on loading, you may miss those connections. However Qantas will ensure you get to where you are going, it may just require a domestic connection via BNE (QF16) or, on some days, MEL on the later QF96.

With upcoming changes to A380 flying and 787s arriving, from March next year, the delays caused by JFK may not be as bad as they have been.

I've only done the JFK flight once, in one direction. When there were 5 near daily Qantas flights to LAX (BNE, 2xSYD, MEL, AKL) and I was on QF107 all the way through (was actually on board when this photo was taken Boeing 747-438/ER - Qantas | Aviation Photo #1382468 | Airliners.net ).
That flight was delayed departing LA for NY due to long lines for customs.

 

[dajop]

There tend to be delays to the return flights, often related to the JFK flight. There are a number of reasons for these delays,

And unfortunately they changed this to be QF12 when SYD switched to a single daily flight. It was much better when it was QF108, and was colloquially known as QF "1-0-late"

 

[Melburnian1]

...The LAX-JFK sectors of QF11/12 are operated by the 747 from BNE...

Himeno, great information. For completeness, 'normally' could be inserted before 'operated' as we had a case this week where the B744 from QF95 ex MEL operated the transcontinental QF11/QF12 across the USA. It is unusual though.

 

[Melburnian1]

And unfortunately they changed this to be QF12 when SYD switched to a single daily flight. It was much better when it was QF108, and was colloquially known as QF "1-0-late"

dajop, just out of interest, I've always presumed SYD - LAX demand to be greater than MEL - LAX: VA took up the SYD route long before MEL, and DL only operates out of SYD.

There's more competition SYD - LAX than MEL - LAX (the DL factor, and VA are daily SYD - LAX but not MEL - LAX) but why does MEL at present get the B744 on QF95/96 some days each week at times added on to the A388 QF93/94 while SYD retains only the QF11/12? I appreciate that with QF ex SYD one can fly six days a week to SFO (QF73/74) and daily to DFW (QF7/8) as well as seasonally to YVR (QF75/76.) UA also offers flights to SFO and to LAX ex SYD but only to LAX out of MEL.m AC will soon commence a MEL - YVR flight but that's a relatively long time after its SYD - YVR, and more recently BNE - YVR, commenced.

Apart from lack of available equipment (no spare B744s or A388s), why isn't there at least a thrice weekly second QF flight SYD - LAX - SYD?