Points plus pay is not an Any Seat Award.

[medhead]

With the new booking engine on the Qantas website, Qantas is trying to spin us into accepting that Point plus pay is an AnySeat Award. Many around here are also buying into this spin.

This position is simply not supported by the information available on the website and the changes that have been taking place in pricing. I take this view for the following reasons.

• The definition of an Any Seat Award in the terms and conditions clearly state that it must be called an AnySeat Award to be an Any Seat Award. Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions
• At no stage does the new booking engine use the term "Any Seat Award. The terms used are "view in points" and then "points plus pay".
• The booking engine also provides this advice, which does not mention Any Seat Award. "Points Plus Pay allows Qantas Frequent Flyers the ability to obtain flights with a mix of points and money - the more points used, the less money paid! Point levels start from as low as 5,000."
• The Qantas website lists Points plus pay as a payment option not an award type. There are a number of payment options listed, no one is trying to suggest those other payment options are awards. Points Plus Pay | Qantas
• The pricing for "view in points" is now significantly different to what was previously available using the old Any Seat Award booking engine to purchase in non-classic award fare buckets. In particular, the old ASA booking engine had variable costs per point depending on where the points slider was set. The "view in points" slider has a fixed cost per point.
• The old ASA slider would only reduce to minimum points that matched the classic award level, the previous points plus pay slider would reduce to a minimum of 5000 points. The new points plus pay system still reduces to 5000 points minimum. Significantly different to what was an Any Seat Award - Hence it is wrong to claim an ASA can still be booked.

For those reasons it is wrong to claim:

Firstly, Any Seat Awards can still be booked on-line with the new booking front-end. Any flight can be booked as a combination of Points plus Pay, which is an Any Seat Award.

It is more true to say that a seat can be purchased using points, or a combination of points and cash.

I do not think that we should be buying into and supporting the spin from Qantas. There are so many examples of Qantas changing things to our detriment without giving proper notice of those changes. I simply cannot believe that they are being given a free ride around here on this negative change.

 

[BD1959]

I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic.

Whilst I agree: P+P is not ASA, surely ASA is a type of P+P (the difference I see from reading the T&Cs is that P+P can - theoretically - be used for any QF award, including non-flight awards.

I do agree that the disappearance of the ability to book certain ASAs - ie those where it is possible book them at the same rate as a Classic Award, has been badly mishandled by QF both in terms of announcing the change to QFF members and in training their own staff in being able to book these, surely it is the right of QF to alter their fares (including points values) at any time they wish.

If we no longer agree with the value which is being offered by QF, then we have a very simple choice.

... or am I missing the point completely?

Regards,

BD

 

[fall502]

medhead I agree with you, I contacted Qantas to complain about the removal of ASAs at classic rate and my reply from Qantas was that ASAs are still available and provided details on points plus pay. Replied that I did not agree with their response, not expecting a rely.

 

[medhead]

I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic.

Whilst I agree: P+P is not ASA, surely ASA is a type of P+P (the difference I see from reading the T&Cs is that P+P can - theoretically - be used for any QF award, including non-flight awards.

I do agree that the disappearance of the ability to book certain ASAs - ie those where it is possible book them at the same rate as a Classic Award, has been badly mishandled by QF both in terms of announcing the change to QFF members and in training their own staff in being able to book these, surely it is the right of QF to alter their fares (including points values) at any time they wish.

If we no longer agree with the value which is being offered by QF, then we have a very simple choice.

... or am I missing the point completely?

Regards,

BD

You're not missing the point completely. Point plus pay is one method of payment for a range of things including ASA. So my point is one way points plus pay is not an ASA, which is the bit you agree about. Using the website as it stands currently ASA are not offered, IMO, because they are not called ASA. It is possible to buy a seat using points plus pay but I don't believe that means you would be buying an ASA. Basically my point is an ASA can be purchased by p+p but that doesn't make p+p and ASA. (In mathematical terms - it's not commutative)

Qantas can address my point by change the T&Cs, which is well within their right to do. But I believe such a change would require 3 months notification.

 

[danih88]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between using this 'points plus pay' option and calling the new special phone number (1300 366 587) for the ASA seat?

I did a quick example for my potential trip next year.

MEL-LHR-MEL (Y Class)
Leaving 1 Aug 2014 (QF9)
Back 23 Aug 2014 (QF10)

Searching classic I can get a Y class return ticket for 128,000 points and AUD$848.42 in taxes. Note: This this sort of ticket I get ZERO SC and points.
Doing a 'points plus pay' search and playing around with the slider, I could get the same flight for 128,895 points and AUD$707.43. The conditions on the bottom state that I get SC based on Discounted Economy (ie 120 SC return) and normal points (plus and tier bonus).

What do I expect to get when I call Qantas and ask for an ASA flight for those dates? Do I hope to get a cheaper (in points and $$) return economy flight? For me, the main purpose was to get SC and points for essentially a classic flight.

Perhaps this example is not realistic as I plan to book many many months in advance and so the points are probably lower this far out but I do not see too much of a difference between P+P and calling up.

Can someone please let me know what the potential benefits are?

Regards
Daniel

EDIT: I just did a search on different dates and the point requirements just jumped up a lot on particular dates (obviously high season/school holidays) so I can see that it can fluctuate a bit. I still would like to know what the difference/benefits between P+P and ASA is though.

 

[Dan171]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between using this 'points plus pay' option and calling the new special phone number (1300 366 587) for the ASA seat?

I did a quick example for my potential trip next year.

MEL-LHR-MEL (Y Class)
Leaving 1 Aug 2014 (QF9)
Back 23 Aug 2014 (QF10)

Searching classic I can get a Y class return ticket for 128,000 points and AUD$848.42 in taxes. Note: This this sort of ticket I get ZERO SC and points.
Doing a 'points plus pay' search and playing around with the slider, I could get the same flight for 128,895 points and AUD$707.43. The conditions on the bottom state that I get SC based on Discounted Economy (ie 120 SC return) and normal points (plus and tier bonus).

What do I expect to get when I call Qantas and ask for an ASA flight for those dates? Do I hope to get a cheaper (in points and $$) return economy flight? For me, the main purpose was to get SC and points for essentially a classic flight.

Perhaps this example is not realistic as I plan to book many many months in advance and so the points are probably lower this far out but I do not see too much of a difference between P+P and calling up.

Can someone please let me know what the potential benefits are?

Regards
Daniel

EDIT: I just did a search on different dates and the point requirements just jumped up a lot on particular dates (obviously high season/school holidays) so I can see that it can fluctuate a bit. I still would like to know what the difference/benefits between P+P and ASA is though.

My only experiences with ASA was a SC run/holiday to cairns from perth. I had found a j class ticket for 54k points and a small fee. I could of used my points outright to pay for them, but I didn't want to use so many for a return. so instead i used the used P+P option that was available as a method of payment to get the J tickets for 38k points and $180 each way.

For less than the cost of a return in Y and 54k points (after what I gained from the flight) I had a J ticket and 320 SC

That is 1 of benefits I could see of ASA. in the old format was the was occasionally a fantastic value seat that would also earn you the SC!!
but I only learned of it a few months before its demise and only took advantage of it the once!

I totally agree with this thread, P+P is not ASA. P+P is another form of payment like your credit card, bpay & POLi etc.

I have been looking at booking an JASA to DWF from SYD and just a few hours ago I was quoted 144k points only or 56k points + $2200 in premium economy to me that isn't good value. It is also what a lot of people now think too!

 

[Mr_Orange]

I have been looking at booking an JASA to DWF from SYD and just a few hours ago I was quoted 144k points only or 56k points + $2200 in premium economy to me that isn't good value. It is also what a lot of people now think too!

Generally, only J(U) and F(P) ASAs are good value on points. Y(X) is certainly not and I'm not sure whether we have many data points for the value of W(Z).

 

[Dan171]

Generally, only J(U) and F(P) ASAs are good value on points. Y(X) is certainly not and I'm not sure whether we have many data points for the value of W(Z).

The are no QF flights to america that are j or f on or around dates which is particularly annoying!