QF vs EK to Europe: a $4,000 question

[legroom]

Friends

I set out to do a dummy run to AMS using QF & EK sites, selecting identical flight numbers i.e. QF-numbered EK metal (codeshare).

The cost differential of a return J trip (SYD AMS) in May 2013 is $3,939.

Hard to believe !

Using flight distance and QF's table, I estimated there would be 560 SCs earned from the flight (subject to final QF rules, of course).

It follows that SC costs about $7 each !

I have excluded the EK miles from the calculations.

Now, why would someone use QF sites to book EK metals to fly to Europe when the price differential is that much ?

In a bigger business sense, wouldn't this - in the long run - drive QF to the ground ?

I love to support QF when / if I can but would you, at a cost of $4K - for the same trip / metal ?

Love to hear your thoughts.

 

[simongr]

Have you looked at different dates to see whether it is a capacity issue? I don't think QF and Ek have fully sorted out pricing on the routes as there are lots of issues at the moment.

 

[burmans]

At $4000 I wouldn't be questioning any of these things for long!

Friends

I set out to do a dummy run to AMS using QF & EK sites, selecting identical flight numbers i.e. QF-numbered EK metal (codeshare).

The cost differential of a return J trip (SYD AMS) in May 2013 is $3,939.

Hard to believe !

Using flight distance and QF's table, I estimated there would be 560 SCs earned from the flight (subject to final QF rules, of course).

It follows that SC costs about $7 each !

I have excluded the EK miles from the calculations..

Now, why would someone use QF sites to book EK metals to fly to Europe when the price differential is that much ?.

Well there are some who seem prepared to travel and book with QF no matter what (for patriotism?). I'm not one of them.

In a bigger business sense, wouldn't this - in the long run - drive QF to the ground ?

Possibly, never underestimate loyalty though.

I love to support QF when / if I can but would you, at a cost of $4K - for the same trip / metal ?

Not a chance.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Have you looked at Malaysian Airlines Sydney to Amsterdam in J, the points are terrible but you would get status credits.

 

[legroom]

Have you looked at different dates to see whether it is a capacity issue? I don't think QF and Ek have fully sorted out pricing on the routes as there are lots of issues at the moment.

Simongr

I am still in a state of shock to look at different dates

Someone else may run another date

Personally, a few hundred dollars is all I would be prepared to forgo in sustain / support QF (like you, I live here) but at $4K difference, I cannot justify it at all.

How could QF do such a dud deal like this ?

How much had they paid for their legion of corporate advisors to come up with a deal that allows your "partner" to actively undercut you in open daylight like this ?

 

[legroom]

Have you looked at Malaysian Airlines Sydney to Amsterdam in J, the points are terrible but you would get status credits.

My point is only to highlight the QF - EK partnership, not looking for the cheapest J deals.

Sorry if I did not make it clearer.

 

[markis10]

My point is only to highlight the QF - EK partnership, not looking for the cheapest J deals.

Sorry if I did not make it clearer.

Until the green light is given, it may well be a case of no price colluding.

 

[simongr]

I agree it is a shocking difference - I just think there are a lot of wrinkles still to be ironed out (SCs or points on EK flights? Luggage allowances? Lounge access at every level?) - some more than others.

QF will however take the opportunity to maximise revenue where they think they can - some people wont even think of booking on the EK website and some will have what they think are massive discounts. For example a corporate might be given a 40% discount on the website rate. In this case the website price might be $10,000 and they snap it up for what they think is a discount of $4000 when they could have just paid $4000 less on EK directly.

 

[legroom]

Until the green light is given, it may well be a case of no price colluding.

One lives in hope that is the case.

The alternative is too depressing - for QF, that is.

 

[Pushka]

I've done a similar quote and have found more than $5000 difference. After Q dumping Adelaide, I am already signed up with Emirates Skywards. Shame about the "about to be" acquired Plat status for my partner though. I was excited about that until Monday. At least he can get the benefits for Dom travel I guess.

 

[DeKa]

Most of the routes I have looked at (admittedly in Y) the price difference between the flights on EK code and QF code (same aircraft) is $1 each direction .. ie it costs $2 to get full QFF points and SCs. At that price I'm happy.

 

[docjames]

Most of the routes I have looked at (admittedly in Y) the price difference between the flights on EK code and QF code (same aircraft) is $1 each direction .. ie it costs $2 to get full QFF points and SCs. At that price I'm happy.

Sounds almost like a rounding difference (rather than a "charge" for QFF points.

$4k difference is crazy but perhaps until they are allowed to collude on pricing it will stay that way.

 

[Anna]

Most of the routes I have looked at (admittedly in Y) the price difference between the flights on EK code and QF code (same aircraft) is $1 each direction .. ie it costs $2 to get full QFF points and SCs. At that price I'm happy.

I don't know what routes you are looking at. The routes I looked at in Y yesterday, the price difference was $300 - $400. The price difference in J was $1000 - $3000, depending on the date.

It doesn't surprise me, as QF codeshare fares have been priced at ridiculous levels for a long time, long before the EK arrangement. However it does deter me from using the QF/EK tie up and I would prefer to use Oneworld instead.

I imagine QF are banking on people who want to earn SCs not realising how much the QF codeshare costs compared to booking the same flights direct with EK.

 

[mel-world]

I have just done a comparison for a flight I will need to take in July in J from MEL to GLA using both websites but the same flights. The shortest connection on QF to DXB then EK to GLA was 30 hours but the connection on the way back was only 22 hours - the best. The QF website showed A$15900 return for a changeable J ticket (some cheaper options available on some dates) while the EK website for the same itinerary was A$7766!!

If travelling only on EK metal and using the direct EK MEL-DXB at 2230 for a 24 hour journey to GLA and then a similar flight time home, the EK fare was the same but this time QF needed as much as A$19,000 for the same itinerary on certain days. EK does have two levels of J fares against QF three so this is may not be the best or only comparison but it looks bad.

Certainly no collusion there but those QF SCs must be very valuable. I am a loyal Australian but not that loyal. Surely the fares must be the same or very similar or QF will never compete.

BTW - don't you just love it when you open the QF website and it assumes you are starting your journey from SYD by pre-populating that field in the booking engine?

 

[dk4]

The cynic in me thinks that QF might be pricing some of its EK codeshare tickets quite high so that once the deal is approved, it can bring the prices down and claim how fabulous the ticket reductions are thanks to the new deal.:shock:

 

[AirKat]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but from your comments am I right in saying if I book at EK flight through EK I can't credit QF scs and points? There seems to be a lot of references to having to book through qantas?

 

[eastwest101]

The cynic in me thinks that QF might be pricing some of its EK codeshare tickets quite high so that once the deal is approved, it can bring the prices down and claim how fabulous the ticket reductions are thanks to the new deal.:shock:

Or once the deal is approved, return prices to the real world and then boast about an increase in load factors due to the EK deal.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I have just done a comparison for a flight I will need to take in July in J from MEL to GLA using both websites but the same flights. The shortest connection on QF to DXB then EK to GLA was 30 hours but the connection on the way back was only 22 hours - the best. The QF website showed A$15900 return for a changeable J ticket (some cheaper options available on some dates) while the EK website for the same itinerary was A$7766!!

If travelling only on EK metal and using the direct EK MEL-DXB at 2230 for a 24 hour journey to GLA and then a similar flight time home, the EK fare was the same but this time QF needed as much as A$19,000 for the same itinerary on certain days. EK does have two levels of J fares against QF three so this is may not be the best or only comparison but it looks bad.

I don't think the QF website is necessarily the right booking tool to use for all bookings. I wouldn't mind betting that if you called QF res & asked them to quote the exact same itinerary that it will be a lot less than $19,000.00 so I'd at least do that before you made any decisions.

Many people have reported here that return fares to Europe are cheaper than QF if booked through the BA site ie BA flight numbers but QF metal. I also remember reading something about a DONE4 fare being about $800.00 cheaper if the pax swapped a SYD/AKL flight from QF metal to LAN so the whole ticket was plated on LA 'paper' instead of QF but the savings were due to fuel surcharges IIRC not the airfare but nevertheless a significant change to the bottom line.

 

[legroom]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but from your comments am I right in saying if I book at EK flight through EK I can't credit QF scs and points? There seems to be a lot of references to having to book through qantas?

Correct

You need QF flight numbers to earn SCs

That requires you to book through QF site !

And pay $$$$ extra

 

[Shane76]

I've just read this thread. I've had a similar experience with price differentiation between booking EK website v's QF website. In August this year I shall be going to Europe with my partner in F as follows ADL/DXB/LHR....BHX/DXB/ADL, with a two night stop over in Dubai on the way there. Obviously to book this I use the "Multi City" booking tool offered on both websites. I can't remember the exact price difference at the time, but in the interest in recording accurate figure on this thread, I have created a dummy booking on both websites just now. EK Website is offering my $21,786.02. QF Website is offering me $47,754. That's a $25,976.98 difference is price (2 people) for exact same flights/metal/dates/seats. Suffice to say, I booking on EK Website. Yes, I would prefer to have travelled on my beloved QF, and yes I would have preferred to receive SC's and QFFpoints for my travel, but hay...not for an extra $25K....