Young flyer with various questions (Melbourne - Honolulu Promotion)

[AlexanderWalker]

So after much reading and research I'm finally going to post and see what comes of it, looks like a pretty smart big community of travelers.

I'm a Qantas silver member whose looking to get as much as I can out of my situation.
I'm pretty young so I haven't traveled dozens of times like some others on here but I've had a good amount of traveling experience.

After seeing a good sale that expired on the 14th of April I booked, Mel - Syd - Hon for $1050 return for Oct 12th 2015.

I unfortunately did this before delving into the world of Frequent Flyer hacking so I'm wondering what I can do to get the best out of my situation now.

Upgrade Question:
What are the chances of any upgrade offers being offered to me between now and then and what would be the most efficient method to attain a free upgrade or purchase one?

Points Question:
I have 50K points right now, and will have another 40K soon as I signed up for the recent NAB Credit Card scheme. So let's say, 100K by next month. What would be the wisest way to spend this?
Granted I do want to use that to purchase most of my accommodation with. (Not sure if that's anywhere near enough though)

What Could I Do Next Time?
What could I do differently next time to take advantage of my situation, should I have added more connecting flights in between Australia and Hawaii?

FYI, I saw I would get 90SC and 10K points out of this flight ($11.6 which isn't that great is it..unless I misunderstood?)

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

As mentioned by others, QF PS is low down on chances of upgrade.
Apart from the bid now thing with QF, you do not have an option of buying an upgrade, your only chance is to put in a bid for an upgrade, W1 get the first dibs, WP next, SG then next, then PS, and then NB.
With 50,000 or 90,000 points, keep this idea for next time, what I do do, is to use a Points + Pay system, don't tick the classic award box, but use half cash ie, cc or bank transfer via BPay, and half points, thus you buy a J class seat straight off the mark.
Your current situation, I don't see you getting much chances of an upgrade, even if you ask nicely at check in.
Have you used your one visit to the QF J lounge/QP yet? If yes, pity, if no, use that to enter the QFi J lounge, and ask for an upgrade. They can only say no, or laugh, or who knows, you might get an op up.
As a QF SG, I didn't ask for an upgrade, but got one fall into my lap! MEL - ADL! This is domestic, yours is long haul international though.
Doing this {Points + Pay} will earn you more SC to get to SG, esp if you want to fly overseas from Au again, eg, SYD - AKL, return in F with EK (QF flight number, EK metal), can earn you 240 SC, keeping you close to keeping PS, more flights, and you can get to SG.
You can also phone up QF bookings and ask for a comfort seat, what this means, and I have done it, is you pay less than J, but you practically buy the seat next to you, plus your own, so they (QF) keeps that seat next to you as empty, you will have extra space, you have bought that seat, and guaranteed, no one will sit next to you on a flight. Good if entering the lounges is not really important, but space next to you is, on a flight.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Different question answered here, for this I have put in another reply:
40,000 buys you one night at QF Hotels, where you use points to buy a hotel night in the QF liaison group of hotels.
What I would do, is preferably pay for hotels with $ and earn further points, for hotel stays.
I would not use 40,000 for a hotel night, you might want to, up to you.
I would keep my QF FF points for that Points + Pay I keep prattling on about.
Points + Pay for flights earn you the important SC, hotel stays don't. SC helps with getting up the tier, getting from PS to SG is of most imporance, no?

 

[Mattg]

So after much reading and research I'm finally going to post and see what comes of it, looks like a pretty smart big community of travelers.

I'm a Qantas silver member whose looking to get as much as I can out of my situation.
I'm pretty young so I haven't traveled dozens of times like some others on here but I've had a good amount of traveling experience.

After seeing a good sale that expired on the 14th of April I booked, Mel - Syd - Hon for $1050 return for Oct 12th 2015.

I unfortunately did this before delving into the world of Frequent Flyer hacking so I'm wondering what I can do to get the best out of my situation now.

Upgrade Question:
What are the chances of any upgrade offers being offered to me between now and then and what would be the most efficient method to attain a free upgrade or purchase one?

Points Question:
I have 50K points right now, and will have another 40K soon as I signed up for the recent NAB Credit Card scheme. So let's say, 100K by next month. What would be the wisest way to spend this?
Granted I do want to use that to purchase most of my accommodation with. (Not sure if that's anywhere near enough though)

What Could I Do Next Time?
What could I do differently next time to take advantage of my situation, should I have added more connecting flights in between Australia and Hawaii?

FYI, I saw I would get 90SC and 10K points out of this flight ($11.6 which isn't that great is it..unless I misunderstood?)

Firstly, welcome to AFF. I hope you do stick around - there's a lot of useful information here!

To answer your questions:

1. I presume you are flying on Qantas? Your upgrade chances depend on your status... so while Silver has a higher chance than those with no status, you'll be trumped by any higher members than you. I should point out that "sale" fares strictly aren't eligible for points upgrades though - you'll have to at least be on a "saver" fare. It sounds to me like this is the case, in which case you're out of luck unless you get a BidNow offer in the weeks before the flight. Otherwise if you booked the saver fare, you can upgrade the SYD-HNL legs for 48K points each way. (I would upgrade on QF3 as it's an overnight flight.) Hope that all makes sense.

2. My advice would be definitely NOT to spend your Qantas points booking hotels! Booking hotels, along with buying products from the Qantas online store would have to be one of the worst value methods to spend your points. If you use points to book a hotel, the cash price is simply converted to points at a rate of about 0.6-0.7 cents per point. I also don't really recommend doing a Points plus pay booking as this is again a simple conversion of the cash fare at a rate of about 0.8 cents per point. The best value lies in business class reward seats and upgrades, where points are worth closer to 3-7 cents per point. That's a significant difference!

My personal recommendation though would be to save up 140K points and book a round-the-world trip. I would recommend checking out the oneWorld award thread in the "Your Questions" forum for more on that.

3. For Hawaii, you could have booked with Jetstar and purchased a plus bundle. JQ are currently running a pretty nice sale $433.50 return between Sydney/Brisbane and Honolulu (or about $550 with the plus bundle, which earns Qantas points and status credits). Sometimes Jetstar also offer cheap upgrades on this route too. But sticking with Qantas, booking a Saver fare would give you a shot at an upgrade. Other than that, not sure you can add too many more connections to that routing without pushing up the cost!

 

[AlexanderWalker]

you buy a J class seat straight off the mark.

How does that work? J Class Seats are for Business and I was purchasing a Economy Sale ticket. Are you saying purchasing Points+ Pay boosts your booking class up?

You say next time use the points+ pay and the lady over the phone was telling me the conversion wasn't very good only getting about $350 value for 50k points, plus she mentioned there are fee's associated with using points to pay for a flight. Can you speak on these extra fee's?

Also Mattg above me suggested not using Points+ Pay as well, instead opting to use them for business class reward seats. What's been you're personal experience with that?

Have you used your one visit to the QF J lounge/QP yet?

I have not yet. Should I use that in Melbourne or Sydney because my layover is only an hour in Sydney?

You can also phone up QF bookings and ask for a comfort seat, what this means, and I have done it, is you pay less than J, but you practically buy the seat next to you, plus your own, so they (QF) keeps that seat next to you as empty

I already picked my seats for free online after I booked the flight but how much did you pay for the comfort seat?

Points + Pay for flights earn you the important SC

How much more SC and points does points+ pay earn compared to purchasing entirely on cash?

getting from PS to SG is of most imporance, no?

Yes it is.

 

[Mattg]

How does that work? J Class Seats are for Business and I was purchasing a Economy Sale ticket. Are you saying purchasing Points+ Pay boosts your booking class up?

You say next time use the points+ pay and the lady over the phone was telling me the conversion wasn't very good only getting about $350 value for 50k points, plus she mentioned there are fee's associated with using points to pay for a flight. Can you speak on these extra fee's?

Points plus pay is exactly what the lady on the phone described - a way to convert your points into cash at a very poor rate. The other poster always seems to bring this up. He/she may like using it as the booking earns status credits, but 95% of people on this forum don't recommend it for reasons already outlined.

The other (much better) way to use your points to book a flight is the classic flight reward. These are subject to availability, but these seats can be purchased for a fixed points price plus taxes and fuel surcharges. On any award booking, you need to pay the taxes in cash. This can be as little as $30 for a typical domestic flight or a few hundred dollars for international flights.

Also Mattg above me suggested not using Points+ Pay as well, instead opting to use them for business class reward seats. What's been you're personal experience with that?



I have not yet. Should I use that in Melbourne or Sydney because my layover is only an hour in Sydney?

The Sydney international business lounge is nicer than the Qantas Club, but if you're not going to get much time there I would arrive a couple of hours early and use the pass at the Qantas Club in Melbourne.

I already picked my seats for free online after I booked the flight but how much did you pay for the comfort seat?

The comfort seat is generally only used by "large" passengers who need the extra seat. They generally cost the same price as a normal seat, minus the taxes. I personally think this is unnecessary.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Thank you.

I am flying Qantas yes.

if you booked the saver fare, you can upgrade the SYD-HNL legs for 48K points each way. (I would upgrade on QF3 as it's an overnight flight.) Hope that all makes sense.

I purchased a sale fare. Well I'm pretty sure I did because it was a sale promotion. So does that mean I can still upgrade that leg for 48k points?

My advice would be definitely NOT to spend your Qantas points booking hotels!

Seems to be the overall suggestion thank you.

best value lies in business class reward seats and upgrades, where points are worth closer to 3-7 cents per point. That's a significant difference!

I could be missing something but business class seats are way out of my budget, or is there a difference between Business Class and 'Business Class Reward Seats'?

Oh I thought if I booked with Jetstar I would have gotten less points and SC because they're only a partner airline. Interesting.

 

[Mattg]

I purchased a sale fare. Well I'm pretty sure I did because it was a sale promotion. So does that mean I can still upgrade that leg for 48k points?

If you purchased a "sale" fare, you won't be able to upgrade with points. But there's an easy way to find out - go to "manage my booking" and see if it will let you place an upgrade request.

I could be missing something but business class seats are way out of my budget, or is there a difference between Business Class and 'Business Class Reward Seats'?

Oh I thought if I booked with Jetstar I would have gotten less points and SC because they're only a partner airline. Interesting.

Yes, there's a big difference. Business class seats are outside of most peoples' budgets, including mine. Business reward seats however, cost exactly double the number of points as an economy reward seat, and the taxes are roughly the same, meaning it is effectively less than double the price using points. The main thing here though is that availability is limited as these seats are very popular.

With Jetstar, you don't earn any points or status credits unless you purchase a plus or max bundle. Interestingly the plus bundle (about $60 on SYD-HNL) earns points at the "economy" rate, as opposed to the slightly lower "discount economy" rate on Qantas sale bookings.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

"manage my booking" and see if it will let you place an upgrade request.

Clicked "Upgrade" from the home page that is next to "Manage" button and it just takes me to the "Manage Your Booking" page where I don't see any Upgrade options besides Baggage, Legroom and Hotels at the top.

Business reward seats however, cost exactly double the number of points as an economy reward seat, and the taxes are roughly the same, meaning it is effectively less than double the price using points. The main thing here though is that availability is limited as these seats are very popular.

Okay that's awesome to know I'll use that for next time. However I just had an idea I'd value you're opinion on.

In 'Flight Details' I have the option to 'Cancel' and select either Voucher or Refund. It sais "Your refund amount will be less applicable fees."
So if I get a refund of the entire flight and loose the $30 booking fee, (which is fine) I could then re-book through Business Economy Reward Seat and acquire more points and SC through that?

Could that work granted the seats are available?

 

[Mattg]

Clicked "Upgrade" from the home page that is next to "Manage" button and it just takes me to the "Manage Your Booking" page where I don't see any Upgrade options besides Baggage, Legroom and Hotels at the top.

Try logging into your frequent flyer account and clicking on "Your bookings". You should see a big red "upgrade" box next to "view/change/check in"

Okay that's awesome to know I'll use that for next time. However I just had an idea I'd value you're opinion on.

In 'Flight Details' I have the option to 'Cancel' and select either Voucher or Refund. It sais "Your refund amount will be less applicable fees."
So if I get a refund of the entire flight and loose the $30 booking fee, (which is fine) I could then re-book through Business Economy Reward Seat and acquire more points and SC through that?

Could that work granted the seats are available?

There are a couple of flaws here unfortunately. Firstly, if you booked a sale fare, I doubt you will be able to get much of it refunded. Even if you can, you'll probably lose at least a few hundred dollars.

Secondly, business reward seats (as with any reward seat) don't earn any points or status credits. The points plus pay bookings do, however the required points will be astronomical.

Also, I just had a look and there are no business class reward seats around your travel date on QF3 or QF4 anyway. As I said, they sell out fast so you need to plan ahead - roughly 353 days ahead, in fact!

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Thanks for that. It sais the upgrade is only available on the domestic flights and unavailable for the international flights.
Will this change closer to the date?

business reward seats (as with any reward seat) don't earn any points or status credits.

Oh, so what's the point of buying them than if you don't earn any SC or points?
I mean I get when you SPEND points on Business Reward Seats they're worth significantly more, but isn't that mitigated by the fact they're not earning ANY points or SC?

roughly 353 days ahead, in fact!

Wow, didn't realise they were so highly in demand will have to look into that further next time.

 

[Mattg]

Thanks for that. It sais the upgrade is only available on the domestic flights and unavailable for the international flights.
Will this change closer to the date?

Though this may be the case. Save your points then (don't bother upgrading the domestic flights).

This won't change as your fare class on the SYD-HNL flights is not eligible to upgrade from. Most likely the only chance you might have of upgrading is if you get a Bid Now upgrade offer a couple of weeks before the flight.

Oh, so what's the point of buying them than if you don't earn any SC or points?
I mean I get when you SPEND points on Business Reward Seats they're worth significantly more, but isn't that mitigated by the fact they're not earning ANY points or SC?

IMHO the fact that you're getting the seat for much, much less than what it's worth more than mitigates this.

I think you'll find that reward flights booked with points don't earn points or status credits on any airline, with perhaps a couple of rare exceptions.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

IMHO the fact that you're getting the seat for much, much less than what it's worth more than mitigates this.

Oh okay. Do you have an example you could give me from your experience comparing a ordinary priced Business Ticket to a Business Reward Seat?

 

[Mattg]

Oh okay. Do you have an example you could give me from your experience comparing a ordinary priced Business Ticket to a Business Reward Seat?

Sure thing. Let's take Sydney - Honolulu as an example.

A regular economy return ticket costs about $1200 (or around $1000 if there is a sale). An economy reward seat for the round trip costs 72,000 points + $518 in taxes and fuel surcharges. So, the 72,000 points are worth about $700. In other words, the points are worth just about a cent per point.

A regular business class return ticket costs $4500 return. A business reward seat costs 144,000 points and around $600-700 in taxes. So that means that the 144,000 points are worth, say $3,800. So the points are worth around 2.8 cents per point. On some routes they are worth even more.

Probably a better example is SYD-MEL. A business class seat costs $725, while a business reward seat costs 16,000 points plus around $32. So 1 point is effectively worth 4.3 cents per point.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Getting a reward seat, for QFi is very hard, harder than on QFd.
Main point, is that unless you practically buy a J revenue seat, or use points for a J reward seat, you don't know whether you have that J seat or not. Its all a request, and not a cert.
Points + Pay, I know I keep prattling about this, and tiring as it is, is the only certain way to get that J class reward seat
At least with QFd, you know, that that J class seat is yours when you get the upgrade, with QFi, you might not know for days/weeks.
Low tier membership, I would not hold a lot of hope.
On my paid trip from SYD - CHC, Jetconnect, J was full, 11 others + me = 12 on that 737.
I have also flown in J on an EK flight (QF flight number), CHC - SYD, there were many empty seats, meaning on that 777, EK did not upgrade willy nilly.

 

[Mattg]

Getting a reward seat, for QFi is very hard, harder than on QFd.
Main point, is that unless you practically buy a J revenue seat, or use points for a J reward seat, you don't know whether you have that J seat or not. Its all a request, and not a cert.
Points + Pay, I know I keep prattling about this, and tiring as it is, is the only certain way to get that J class reward seat
At least with QFd, you know, that that J class seat is yours when you get the upgrade, with QFi, you might not know for days/weeks.
Low tier membership, I would not hold a lot of hope.
On my paid trip from SYD - CHC, Jetconnect, J was full, 11 others + me = 12 on that 737.
I have also flown in J on an EK flight (QF flight number), CHC - SYD, there were many empty seats, meaning on that 777, EK did not upgrade willy nilly.

For a round-trip from Sydney to Honolulu, the cheapest business seat paid for by Points plus Pay costs over 500,000 points (and that's on sale fares). For the extra 350,000+ points you get Business class points & status credits, a guaranteed seat and no extra taxes. Yes, that has some value but I definitely wouldn't pay that much. (Not even close.)

To put it into perspective, 500,000 points can get you a round-the-world trip in FIRST class, or 3 round-the-world trips in economy. And you'd still have 80,000 points left!

In a nutshell, this is why I and most other people on the forum don't recommend points plus pay... YMMV.

 

[trixydoza]

Getting a reward seat, for QFi is very hard, harder than on QFd.
Main point, is that unless you practically buy a J revenue seat, or use points for a J reward seat, you don't know whether you have that J seat or not. Its all a request, and not a cert.
Points + Pay, I know I keep prattling about this, and tiring as it is, is the only certain way to get that J class reward seat

I would say that using Points + Pay *is* practically the same as buying a J revenue seat, except I value the points more than the cash Qantas is prepared to let me save by using them.

AustraliaPoochie, can you give a concrete example, using mostly numbers and as few words as possible, of an international J Points + Pay booking that is better value than a J revenue fare?

 

[JessicaTam]

For a round-trip from Sydney to Honolulu, the cheapest business seat paid for by Points plus Pay costs over 500,000 points (and that's on sale fares). For the extra 350,000+ points you get Business class points & status credits, a guaranteed seat and no extra taxes. Yes, that has some value but I definitely wouldn't pay that much. (Not even close.)

To put it into perspective, 500,000 points can get you a round-the-world trip in FIRST class, or 3 round-the-world trips in economy. And you'd still have 80,000 points left!

In a nutshell, this is why I and most other people on the forum don't recommend points plus pay... YMMV.

I agree with Mattg. Points + pay are exceedingly poor value. Comparable to a toaster on the QF store site. His comparison to a RTW F ticket puts it into perspective. I would take a cheap J seat with no SCs over a SC earning points + pay seat anyday.

Alexander, enjoy your flight. Yes it could have been a little cheaper with JQ, but you will be earning SCs and some more points to add to your steadily growing total. This site is a mine of information which will help you when you book your next flight.

Keep an eye on your seat allocations particularly about 3 days before departure (actually 80 hours) as you may be able to choose seats that weren't available to you previously.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Sure thing. Let's take Sydney - Honolulu as an example.

A regular economy return ticket costs about $1200 (or around $1000 if there is a sale). An economy reward seat for the round trip costs 72,000 points + $518 in taxes and fuel surcharges. So, the 72,000 points are worth about $700. In other words, the points are worth just about a cent per point.

A regular business class return ticket costs $4500 return. A business reward seat costs 144,000 points and around $600-700 in taxes. So that means that the 144,000 points are worth, say $3,800. So the points are worth around 2.8 cents per point. On some routes they are worth even more.

Probably a better example is SYD-MEL. A business class seat costs $725, while a business reward seat costs 16,000 points plus around $32. So 1 point is effectively worth 4.3 cents per point.

I see thank you for taking the time to explain that, very helpful.

For future reference what's the math your doing to get the cents per point?

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Alexander, enjoy your flight. Yes it could have been a little cheaper with JQ, but you will be earning SCs and some more points to add to your steadily growing total. This site is a mine of information which will help you when you book your next flight.

Keep an eye on your seat allocations particularly about 3 days before departure (actually 80 hours) as you may be able to choose seats that weren't available to you previously.

Appreciate it and thanks for your input.

I already was able to pick my seats for free and got as close to the front of the plane as possible with aisle seats but good tip I'll keep an eye out.
Is that something Qantas will email me to advise me or I will have to contently check manually?