Article: Qantas Wants More Redemption Options for Frequent Flyers

[AFF Editor]

Qantas Wants More Redemption Options for Frequent Flyers is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas Wants More Redemption Options for Frequent Flyers

Qantas will increase opportunities for members to redeem points on the ground through expanded retail partnerships, and by growing Qantas Hotels & Holidays.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

 

[levelnine]

Looking forward to the new colours of toaster that will be available in the store.

In all seriousness, once you move beyond flight redemptions, the attraction of collecting Qantas points craters. You can earn just as much, if not more, from your credit card spend by using the bank-owned points programs or even straight cashback options like the HSBC card. It makes me wonder if this path is really that sustainable for Qantas. Even with the discounts the article mentions, can Qantas Hotels really compete with the 10-15% cashback you can regularly get with the OTAs?

What I commonly see on OzBargain/Reddit/etc is as follows: collect points in the hope of redeeming for flights for a dream trip -> find that it is nearly impossible to redeem points for the class of service/dates that the person wants -> begrudgingly redeem points for something suboptimal on the Qantas store -> swear off earning Qantas points and switch to Velocity or some other credit card loyalty program.

 

[CaptJCool]

so it would seem the "can was kicked down the road" and now we get to 2023 with lots of points earnt over COVID, with not a lot of "FLYING"
the SO CALLED million extra rewards seats "available" for redemption POST covid, which was looming to be the serious challenge back 4 years ago and it becomes a problem that has exacerbated, and not easily solvable by points expiry after 18 months of no activity or for that matter upon death. The why was mentioned here: Under the Hood: What the Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes Really Mean For Members

easy to earn, but much more difficult to burn UNLESS willing to take sub-optimal chocies.

for QF the RRIA Revenue Received in Advance

Unredeemed Frequent Flyer revenue ($billions)
Dec 2022 June 2022 June 2021 June 2020 June 2019
Current (Billions) 1.305 1.168 0.894 0.617 1.060
Non-Current 1.868 1.945 2.119 2.200 1.402
Total 3.173 3.113 3.013 2.817 2.462

Noting this from FY 2022
Frequent Flyer marketing revenue and other Qantas Loyalty businesses $0.537b (2021 $0.431b)

Unredeemed Frequent Flyer revenue relates to performance obligations associated with Qantas Points which have been issued but not redeemed. Qantas Points are issued by the Group as part of the Qantas Frequent Flyer program or are sold to third parties such as credit cards providers, who issue them as part of their loyalty programs. Unredeemed Frequent Flyer revenue is classified as either current or non-current based on the Group’s expectation of redemption patterns by members within the next 12 months under the Financial Plan. The non-current amount of Unredeemed Frequent Flyer revenue will be materially recognised as revenue over three years. Significant changes in Qantas Points expected to expire unredeemed are recognised within other revenue and income using estimates based on the terms and conditions of the Frequent Flyer program, experience and historical and expected future trends.

PS and please none of these Qantas is Seeing a Run on Redemptions Prior to Award Chart Devaluation - View from the Wing

 

[exceladdict]

The 30% off points plus pay flights - plus regular substantial discounting of things at the marketplace - demonstrates the margin inherent in that redemption option.

That graph in the article was really interesting, thanks for sharing Matt. Breakage is obviously big enough to be recorded on the graph.

Also quite interesting @CaptJCool that despite the total revenue growing, the non-current share has dropped consistently over the years.

 

[CaptJCool]

The 30% off points plus pay flights - plus regular substantial discounting of things at the marketplace - demonstrates the margin inherent in that redemption option.

That graph in the article was really interesting, thanks for sharing Matt. Breakage is obviously big enough to be recorded on the graph.

Also quite interesting @CaptJCool that despite the total revenue growing, the non-current share has dropped consistently over the years.

And there you have It

If you can offer 30% off, clearance sale then there’s ample inbuilt profit margin - perhaps they can offer the one-eyed “p-irate” experience.
(That’s a joke Joyce)

The 18 month expiry period would be making a contribution towards keeping non-currents ‘stable’

I’d hazard a guess that boosting classic redemptions to the 1,000,000, would at the bare minimum 12,000, burn 12,000,000,000

That’s a truckload of burn and it shifts RRIA to taxable income

However despite these serious efforts, points earn keeps ahead as the pot has grown larger so it’s replenished anything actually burnt plus sum

You’d hope not to keep that ever increasing earn at a faster growth rate than burn

 

[WilsonM]

Looking forward to the new colours of toaster that will be available in the store.

In all seriousness, once you move beyond flight redemptions, the attraction of collecting Qantas points craters. You can earn just as much, if not more, from your credit card spend by using the bank-owned points programs or even straight cashback options like the HSBC card. It makes me wonder if this path is really that sustainable for Qantas. Even with the discounts the article mentions, can Qantas Hotels really compete with the 10-15% cashback you can regularly get with the OTAs?

What I commonly see on OzBargain/Reddit/etc is as follows: collect points in the hope of redeeming for flights for a dream trip -> find that it is nearly impossible to redeem points for the class of service/dates that the person wants -> begrudgingly redeem points for something suboptimal on the Qantas store -> swear off earning Qantas points and switch to Velocity or some other credit card loyalty program.

You're 100% on with the cycle of Ozbargainers/Redditers re. QF points, but I would add that the cycle starts again after switching to Velocity

 

[SYD]

It would actually be a nice idea if QF did what US airlines do and release more seats closer to departure of a flight is undersold. In fact, I recently scored 2x J seats SYD-CGK about 2 wks out after nothing in J (and hardly any whY) for months.

However, I suspect a devaluation of points for classic rewards is looming...

 

[jpp42]

It would actually be a nice idea if QF did what US airlines do and release more seats closer to departure of a flight is undersold. In fact, I recently scored 2x J seats SYD-CGK about 2 wks out after nothing in J (and hardly any whY) for months.

I'm a little confused by this, doesn't your second statement prove that Qantas does, in fact, sometimes make award seats available at times when flights are undersold? We don't know the specific processes around this but it seems to happen often enough as reported on this forum. (I realise the award seats might have returned to inventory for another reason, i.e. other traveller cancelling.)

 

[SYD]

I'm a little confused by this, doesn't your second statement prove that Qantas does, in fact, sometimes make award seats available at times when flights are undersold? We don't know the specific processes around this but it seems to happen often enough as reported on this forum. (I realise the award seats might have returned to inventory for another reason, i.e. other traveller cancelling.)

Yes, but I believe that's a recent and positive development. Plenty of comments here to suggest that QF rarely used to release premium seats (but happy to be corrected if this has been occurring for a while).

In my example, there was no premium reward availability 350 odd days out (and nothing for weeks and months either side). ISo unliely that was reward seats returned to inventory.

 

[Gazza129]

Looking forward to the new colours of toaster that will be available in the store.

In all seriousness, once you move beyond flight redemptions, the attraction of collecting Qantas points craters. You can earn just as much, if not more, from your credit card spend by using the bank-owned points programs or even straight cashback options like the HSBC card. It makes me wonder if this path is really that sustainable for Qantas. Even with the discounts the article mentions, can Qantas Hotels really compete with the 10-15% cashback you can regularly get with the OTAs?

What I commonly see on OzBargain/Reddit/etc is as follows: collect points in the hope of redeeming for flights for a dream trip -> find that it is nearly impossible to redeem points for the class of service/dates that the person wants -> begrudgingly redeem points for something suboptimal on the Qantas store -> swear off earning Qantas points and switch to Velocity or some other credit card loyalty program.

Post automatically merged: Jun 1, 2023

Looking forward to the new colours of toaster that will be available in the store.

In all seriousness, once you move beyond flight redemptions, the attraction of collecting Qantas points craters. You can earn just as much, if not more, from your credit card spend by using the bank-owned points programs or even straight cashback options like the HSBC card. It makes me wonder if this path is really that sustainable for Qantas. Even with the discounts the article mentions, can Qantas Hotels really compete with the 10-15% cashback you can regularly get with the OTAs?

What I commonly see on OzBargain/Reddit/etc is as follows: collect points in the hope of redeeming for flights for a dream trip -> find that it is nearly impossible to redeem points for the class of service/dates that the person wants -> begrudgingly redeem points for something suboptimal on the Qantas store -> swear off earning Qantas points and switch to Velocity or some other credit card loyalty program.

Beat me to it on the toaster!! 100% agree.....use points to fly or don't bother

 

[AndyC1970]

QF appears to be desperate to get FF to use their points for anything other than what people want to use their points for - largely Reward Flight Redemptions in J/F. They make getting such reward flights so difficult people give up - so they will get some people taking them up on these more random types of redemptions. I'd redeem all my points to have an hour with AJ to give him a piece of my mind !

 

[MelbFlyer]

I'd just like to be able to amend reward bookings via the portal, rather than having to resort to calling to see if I can change a flight to one that I can see and select online.

..only to be told that the reward seats that I can see online, aren't available!

 

[SYD]

I'd just like to be able to amend reward bookings via the portal, rather than having to resort to calling to see if I can change a flight to one that I can see and select online.

..only to be told that the reward seats that I can see online, aren't available!

Have you tried doing it online?

The “Change” function is there (has been for a while - including classic reward bookings).

Does it work - I don’t know. The times I’ve tried, there’s been no alternate CRs to change to but I reckon it would if there was availability.

 

[exceladdict]

Have you tried doing it online?

The “Change” function is there (has been for a while - including classic reward bookings).

Does it work - I don’t know. The times I’ve tried, there’s been no alternate CRs to change to but I reckon it would if there was availability.

Hasn't ever worked for me unfortunately, paid or reward flights.

 

[justin23]

I have an issue with the word value when we talk about FF points. What we really mean is the monetary cost. Its like buying a car, you can pay $30k or $100k for a car. which one provides better value? Same for plane flights, are business class seats better value than economy seats. Now I do agree the redeem rates for anything but flights/upgrades are not that good.

However points are pretty easy to come by. I got my Bose QC35's using points. I've used therm nearly every day for years now. I did get them on a points sale. Could i have maximised the monetary value of the points I'd earnt? Yes. Did i get good value from the points i used? Yes I believe I did.

Another way of looking at it, what is better value, 2 economy flights or one business flight? Now I really do prefer business class naturally, but IMO i'm not that fussy that it needs to be say a 1-2-1 layout or anything other than the fact I've got a seat that my knees don't get crushed in and my neighbour isn't squished against me the whole time. so if i was able to redeem for 2 economy flights over 1 business flight I probably would do that. I tend to look for business sales and DSS, to retain status, but as travel is a hobby for me, i'm more likely to spend a big haul of points on more economy flights than i am with one business flight.

So thats why I find the use of the term value to be misleading. As a society we are all trained to think what gives something value is the monetary cost and thats just not true.

 

[levelnine]

However points are pretty easy to come by.

Not true for anyone redeeming substantial numbers of points.

It is actually quite hard to acquire millions of QF points per year at a low cost. Once you burn through the credit cards that offer large number of sign-up bonus points for low annual fees, the cost of acquiring points becomes quite high. You're often paying 1c/pt or more in credit card surcharges, at which point the value proposition is marginal. If you're acquiring them for 1c/pt or higher, you're typically losing money on these non-flight options such as hotels & headphones. Far better to have paid with cash.

 

[Mattg]

Have you tried doing it online?

The “Change” function is there (has been for a while - including classic reward bookings).

Does it work - I don’t know. The times I’ve tried, there’s been no alternate CRs to change to but I reckon it would if there was availability.

This is off-topic, but I recently changed a Classic Flight Reward booking online using the "change" option. I was able to select the new flight that I wanted, but Qantas then failed to issue a new ticket and the partner airline cancelled my flight.

So, does it work? The answer is "yes, but actually no".

 

[Airbumps]

This is off-topic, but I recently changed a Classic Flight Reward booking online using the "change" option. I was able to select the new flight that I wanted, but Qantas then failed to issue a new ticket and the partner airline cancelled my flight.

So, does it work? The answer is "yes, but actually no".

I recently had the pleasure of calling up to book an award flight from MEL-LAX as the website kept giving me rubbish 'generic' errors. The bloke on the other end of the line swore black and blue that there was no availability for J awards on this particular QF flight. I then told him I was looking at the GDS that clearly showed U fare class availability at which point he said "Ahhh, right......yes I see them" and booked it. 99% sure he didn't know what fare class he was looking for....

He then had the nerve to charge me a 7,700 point 'International Assistance Fee' without telling me about it. I called them back two days later, explained the circumstances and that if anything he should be giving me the assistance fee as I helped him do his job. Those points were reinstated.

Dealing with incompetence is frustrating.

 

[Berlin]

No no no. Qantas is already spamming my inbox with those idiotic “redeem your points for some nonsense” emails, I don’t need more of those. Like for many of us, all that matters to me are flight redemption or upgrade options and please not in cattle class. The whole program otherwise does not make any sense to me- I buy Qantas wine to EARN points, not to blow them.