Will you still earn/retain Velocity status beyond 2025?

[simmomelb]

Just as an example: here was a survey sent out in 2022, still on the topic of a subscription model but with a different set of questions.
They've been looking at this and surveying it since VA1, in 2019.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Slightly off topic but I'm genuinely intrigued. If this really is basic marketing theory, why do so many businesses get it wrong? Over the years, as a client, I've walked from a number of business relationships due to total indifference to problems. I always play fair, I contact them and explain the concern, I don't want to have to change but in most cases , all I get is more indifference, then I walk. I've always viewed it as a symptom of a deeper malaise. The fish rots from the head; the problems occur because of issues higher up, therefore pursuing the question higher up is futile.
Relevant to this topic, QF was one of the relationships I walked away from. These recent "enhancements " have me re-considering VA. I contacted them a while back, expressing concerns. Apart from the automated acknowledgment, no reply. Not rushing back to QF just yet but the VA loyalty has taken a hit.

Loyalty is about affinity with a brand or product. Not price.

Ozstamps is not talking about loyalty.

Loyal flyers will continue to fly VA regardless of the changes. Those people who chose VA based on price - and happened to score status along the way - are frequent flyers who got something in return for putting some money VA’s way. That’s not loyalty, it’s a business relationship.

Other than folk being upset they’ve lost lounge access… unless they’re willing to fork out 30%-50% more to fly QF, I can’t see them going anywhere.

 

[MooTime]

Loyalty is about affinity with a brand or product. Not price.

Ozstamps is not talking about loyalty.

Loyal flyers will continue to fly VA regardless of the changes. Those people who chose VA based on price - and happened to score status along the way - are frequent flyers who got something in return for putting some money VA’s way. That’s not loyalty, it’s a business relationship.

Other than folk being upset they’ve lost lounge access… unless they’re willing to fork out 30%-50% more to fly QF, I can’t see them going anywhere.

Yes but if lose your status as many will with the devaluation then that loyalty to for VA is gone.

If price was it then all would fly JQ.

Many chose to fly VA cos of a mix of liking the brand, price & status.

If your fully aware your status will vanish, then you will automatically fly other carriers, all to a varying degree.

If you don't care about status but have it and will lose it by flying your same pattern. In that scenario VA won't lose, but suspect that group is the minority.

VA can claim.they want to reward their most frequent / loyal flyers Yada Yada, but how? By installing a WP+ yeah, but the main perk generally is lounge access and how many would up their flying & $$ spent to have the same old lounge F&B? Not me.

 

[ozstamps]

Slightly off topic but I'm genuinely intrigued. If this really is basic marketing theory, why do so many businesses get it wrong? Over the years, as a client, I've walked from a number of business relationships due to total indifference to problems. I always play fair, I contact them and explain the concern, I don't want to have to change but in most cases , all I get is more indifference, then I walk.

Not rushing back to QF just yet but the VA loyalty has taken a hit.

I think larger operations simply do not care that much sadly.

I contacted the CEO of my health care fund Australian Unity this month. Been a happy and unengaged member for 10 years handing over $20,000 or so.

They took an HOUR on the phone to take my premium from me - transferred to 3 flunkeys in a row. All on shore, but all totally unempowered to TAKE cards on phone oddly! Was lied to about the cost 2 times which was even worse.

On the PHONE, I could of course use Amex. (Eventually.) $2500 a year, so worth getting the card points I want.

But to set up a direct annual debit one could NOT use Amex. Quite bizarre as merchant rate these days is the same for all cards essentially. Assumed no-one had ever raised this before.

Some eager underling from the CEO orbit phones, expresses shock at it taking an hour to TAKE my money, and was greatly surprised Amex was not possible on direct debit.

Underling says 'doing a detailed report for the CEO' and will get back to you.'

Week later - 'I am advised we cannot use AMEX for direct debits, sorry'.

Asked if the CEO was happy to learn PAYMENTS can take an hour - she was not. I wondered aloud about how long CLAIMS would take to be paid! Asked if a gift card, or extra month of policy etc, might be offered in view of this huge amount of wasted client time so far.

"Sorry - that can't be done'. Mentioned I just got this HCF offer in my inbox who DO take AMEX - CEOs staffer said - 'You are free to change plans if you want of course.'

Score 150,000 FlyBy points when you join and stay on new eligible HCF health cover for at least 10 months. This offer ends June 30 2025.​

Guess who just signed up to HCF and got better dental and optical benefits as a side bonus for same premium, on top of 150,000 FlyBuys?

Had zero intention to change companies, but inertia and unempowerment bugs me.

 

[nutwood]

Loyalty is about affinity with a brand or product. Not price.

Ozstamps is not talking about loyalty.

Loyal flyers will continue to fly VA regardless of the changes. Those people who chose VA based on price - and happened to score status along the way - are frequent flyers who got something in return for putting some money VA’s way. That’s not loyalty, it’s a business relationship.

Other than folk being upset they’ve lost lounge access… unless they’re willing to fork out 30%-50% more to fly QF, I can’t see them going anywhere.

Surely price is a factor when it comes to business loyalty? I flew QF for many years. They cost a bit more but the overall experience worked. Then it started to go wrong; luggage lost, flights cancelled, then some serious (from my perspective) screw-ups that hurt my business. As it stands at the moment, I'll stick with VA. I don't believe QF are out of the wilderness yet. You are correct, the recent changes won't make me jump ship. What they will do is make me re-assess my VA spend. I thought it was about $20k pa. Looking at the business report, it's a tad over $21k. The critical question will be whether P+ is as underwhelming as QF's P1 became, or whether it's worth having.

 

[RooFlyer]

I contact them and explain the concern, I don't want to have to change but in most cases , all I get is more indifference, then I walk.

I walk for less!

Almost daily between well known 'brands'/service providers. Choose on price, convenience, ancillary benefits, intangibles. And status? If you don't fly enough (or spend enough) to earn it, you probably don't actually need it. But if someone still thinks they really want it, then the concept of status runs has been there for a long time. Go fly.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Slightly off topic but I'm genuinely intrigued. If this really is basic marketing theory, why do so many businesses get it wrong? Over the years, as a client, I've walked from a number of business relationships due to total indifference to problems. I always play fair, I contact them and explain the concern, I don't want to have to change but in most cases , all I get is more indifference, then I walk. I've always viewed it as a symptom of a deeper malaise. The fish rots from the head; the problems occur because of issues higher up, therefore pursuing the question higher up is futile.
Relevant to this topic, QF was one of the relationships I walked away from. These recent "enhancements " have me re-considering VA. I contacted them a while back, expressing concerns. Apart from the automated acknowledgment, no reply. Not rushing back to QF just yet but the VA loyalty has taken a hit.

I agree and this has been going on for at least 50 years; I can remember having similar discussions when I first started work. While there are some businesses that look after their existing customers, it appears there are far more willing to spend millions trying to win back customers they lost through poor customer service.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes but if lose your status as many will with the devaluation then that loyalty to for VA is gone.

If price was it then all would fly JQ.

Many chose to fly VA cos of a mix of liking the brand, price & status.

If your fully aware your status will vanish, then you will automatically fly other carriers, all to a varying degree.

If you don't care about status but have it and will lose it by flying your same pattern. In that scenario VA won't lose, but suspect that group is the minority.

VA can claim.they want to reward their most frequent / loyal flyers Yada Yada, but how? By installing a WP+ yeah, but the main perk generally is lounge access and how many would up their flying & $$ spent to have the same old lounge F&B? Not me.

I think ‘loyalty’ by definition, is priceless? You can’t buy it, for example by giving status.

VA is competing against QF, pretty much on price alone. I don’t think JQ is in the same market.

Where are all the price-based VA flyers going to go? There really isn’t an alternative.

 

[MooTime]

I think ‘loyalty’ by definition, is priceless? You can’t buy it, for example by giving status.

VA is competing against QF, pretty much on price alone. I don’t think JQ is in the same market.

Where are all the price-based VA flyers going to go? There really isn’t an alternative.

I flew QF just week for $40 cheaper than VA. For 4 pax.

Last year I wouldn't of even checked QF price.
Why. Cos I was loyal ,stupid or chasing SCs to attain WP status, again stupid but loyal in my eyes.

Now VA lose that $$ and will accumulate to couple thou over a year as still fly here n there with VA.
I suspect many will fit that basket.

Alternative on price is QF at times & other times JQ. Money split now instead of all funneling to just VA.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I flew QF just week for $40 cheaper than VA. For 4 pax.

Last year I wouldn't of even checked QF price.
Why. Cos I was loyal ,stupid or chasing SCs to attain WP status, again stupid but loyal in my eyes.

Now VA lose that $$ and will accumulate to couple thou over a year as still fly here n there with VA.
I suspect many will fit that basket.

Alternative on price is QF at times & other times JQ. Money split now instead of all funneling to just VA.

Not loyalty, golden handcuffs because you were chasing SCs.

You were getting something in return for your choice.

If you were loyal in the true definition, you would not have looked at the QF last week. It wouldn’t matter what VA throws at you.

But that really is a hard proposition. What does VA do better than QF? Nothing really except price.

 

[MooTime]

Not loyalty, golden handcuffs because you were chasing SCs.

You were getting something in return for your choice.

If you were loyal in the true definition, you would not have looked at the QF last week. It wouldn’t matter what VA throws at you.

But that really is a hard proposition. What does VA do better than QF? Nothing really except price.

No handcuffs cos VA is better on price than QF say 7 outta 10 times. So I go with the safe bet you could say.

VA did status attainment / retainment better than QF, requirement etc was easier, not anymore and they'll lose $$ for that reason alone, how much $$? Will it make a material difference, only time will tell.
As a leisure traveller out of peak hours, loungers we're never full like a 'zoo'.

Never said anything about service so not sure why you mentioned it.....brand, price perks.

anyway made my point to myself at least.

 

[SCM]

VA is competing against QF, pretty much on price alone. I don’t think JQ is in the same market.

Can you explain why? I have always flown JQ before I became a VA status holder, and now with them not offering good value for international travelers, I am looking to go back to JQ. JQ ironically usually has the newest aircraft in the Qantas group, and the new 321s and neos will have a lot of luggage space for cabin as well, which is good - it will probably honestly be a better experience than VA, which majority really old aircraft.

 

[odysseus]

Not loyalty, golden handcuffs because you were chasing SCs.

You were getting something in return for your choice.

If you were loyal in the true definition, you would not have looked at the QF last week. It wouldn’t matter what VA throws at you.

But that really is a hard proposition. What does VA do better than QF? Nothing really except price.

I think your definition of 'loyalty' is a bit more extreme than in general. Your definition seems to be that you must stay with someone regardless of how you're treated. Whereas I think people are more pragmatic - loyalty is more about the current offering. If you reset/change the config, then it's commonsense to reassess - but if things stay the same then you also stay. The purpose of "loyalty" programs is to encourage repeat business; not only being an award to die hard fanbois.

e.g. someone might be loyal to a bank/petrol company/supermarket - but if they close down your regular branch and the nearest is now 50 km away, it's commonsense to reassess. Whereas you seem to suggest that's not loyalty as you have to stick with them - just for some meaningless and misguided concept of "loyalty" whatever happens.

The same has happened here - these are major changes, and now if what is being offered is a much worse deal than you used to have, it's normal to reassess. The business is not 'loyal' to you, so why should you stick with them even when their new offer is worse than competitors? That's just stupidity.

 

[jase05]

Can you explain why? I have always flown JQ before I became a VA status holder, and now with them not offering good value for international travelers, I am looking to go back to JQ. JQ ironically usually has the newest aircraft in the Qantas group, and the new 321s and neos will have a lot of luggage space for cabin as well, which is good - it will probably honestly be a better experience than VA, which majority really old aircraft.

Personally JQ is on my banned list but I also know plenty of others who would not even consider them for various reasons. But then on the other side of the coin I’ve got my youngest brother who pretty much only flies with JQ domestically. Each to their own I guess

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think your definition of 'loyalty' is a bit more extreme than in general. Your definition seems to be that you must stay with someone regardless of how you're treated. Whereas I think people are more pragmatic - loyalty is more about the current offering. If you reset/change the config, then it's commonsense to reassess - but if things stay the same then you also stay. The purpose of "loyalty" programs is to encourage repeat business; not only being an award to die hard fanbois.

e.g. someone might be loyal to a bank/petrol company/supermarket - but if they close down your regular branch and the nearest is now 50 km away, it's commonsense to reassess. Whereas you seem to suggest that's not loyalty as you have to stick with them - just for some meaningless and misguided concept of "loyalty" whatever happens.

The same has happened here - these are major changes, and now if what is being offered is a much worse deal than you used to have, it's normal to reassess. The business is not 'loyal' to you, so why should you stick with them even when their new offer is worse than competitors? That's just stupidity.

I’m not disagreeing that there were relationships built, and people are upset that those relationships have been challenged.

But I struggle with the concept that price-sensitive customers fit the definition of being truly ‘loyal’. How many VA passengers have a true choice of carrier - that is, price doesn’t matter - and still decide to stick with VA?

Acknowledge that FF schemes can have huge influence when pax do have a true choice of carrier. You may spend more, for example a higher fare type in order to get benefits. Or it may entirely influence your choice of carrier outright. We saw that with Rex. Prices on Rex were the same - or cheaper - than VA. Service was pretty much same same overall. But anrguably they lost part of the market because they couldn’t incentive through a meaningful FF program.

Although why JQ pax didn’t flock to Rex (on a like for like route) will be an interesting case study down the track!