About to try to pop my QFF award booking cherry... Help!

[m9441905]

Hi there,

Myself and hubby have managed to accumulate about 260k in QFF points by flying over the years but have squirreled these away while we've been buying and redeeming US Airways points like a pair of drunken sailors on shore leave for trips to the UK/Europe. As a consequence, we're very familiar with *A and BKK airport and indeed TG's rubbish slip sliding J seats....

We've got as trip planned in April next year and would like to try to get at least half way from MEL to LHR on CX using the QFF points. Award Nexus shows plenty of availability between HKG and LHR, less so between MEL and HKG so in theory possible. In addition to the QFF miles, we've also each got c.45K in BD Diamond club which we're about to transfer to Avios once I change our BD addresses back to the UK as apparently they have to match. I'm assuming that they will transfer at 1:1 so we will then have c.90k Avios and 260k QFF. I know that we can buy some top up miles in each program but can someone help me answer the following questions:

- Will we have enough miles for 2x J returns of CX MEL-HKG-LHR between transferring/buying (I know they'll be 2 awards using points from Avios and QFF)?
- What type of award should I be looking for (I'm a bit bamboozled with all this talk of JASAs/Classic/Partner awards..)?
- How can I lessen what will probably be eye watering taxes (clearly avoiding LHR would be a good start but any other suggestions welcome)?
- What tips and traps do I need to be aware of?

Apols for war and peace - plan B is to buy some more US Airways miles in the current promo and book *A award seats MEL-BKK and then either on to HKG and pick up CX or BA direct from BKK perhaps so I need to finalise the plans before the US promo ends on 31/08.

Cheers,

Mags

 

[Ikara]

Having had some real experience at being a drunken sailor on shore leave, I can assure you that not once did I buy US Airways points.

So on behalf of all drunken sailors, I resemble that remark!

JB

 

[anat0l]

Hi Mags, welcome to AFF.

Truth be told from the outset, you might be better off going back to that shore leave and continue purchasing those US DM points for your redemptions. If you're looking for better J options than TG, you could always consider SQ to SIN and then onto another port served by LX, or SQ to SIN then TK and onward. Some have even said CA are alright, then you can have on onward from PEK or PVG.


So let's get down to business (pun intended). You have 90k Avios and 260k QF points for 2 pax for r/t flights MEL-HKG-LHR with preference to fly CX.

First thing to note that insisting on flying CX will automatically mean both a QF award or BA award will fall under the partner award scheme for both carriers. The consequences of this are:

• For QF, you usually will not get Classic level ASAs (if any, at all) on partners. It's dubious to try and request ASAs over the phone with QF (they will almost certainly insist on booking it as a Classic Partner award).
• QF Classic Partner awards are more expensive than QF or BA Kangaroo route Classic Awards, and are usually more difficult to find online (resulting in your usually calling QF and copping the assistance fee).
• For the BA award, you cannot reduce the number of Avios you use and pay more money if you select a non-BA carrier.

Also keep in mind that whilst you may not have reservations buying more Avios, buying top-up points on QF can be expensive and not worthwhile (and you still need to hold 85% of the points required for the award to purchase top-up points with QF).

With Qantas, you should be trying for an ASA (Any Seat Award) priced at the Classic points level, because this will give you both status credits and points (i.e. so some of your points are effectively "rebated" back to you). The main problem is finding Classic-level priced ASAs, and finding them online (because you can hardly book or request them through the phone, let alone the assistance fee). Also, you will most certainly be constrained in flying either QF or BA, not CX, if you search for an ASA.

The next best option is then to look for Classic (specifically Partner Classic) awards with CX. They don't give you status credits or points, but guaranteed they will be at the lowest amount of points (Classic level) or none at all. Now... MEL-LHR via HKG will cost you 139,000 points per person in J one-way (plus taxes etc.). With your current balance, you'd need to find another 18,000 points to make the requirement for 2 people. Alternatively, HKG-LHR on CX J one-way is 92,000 per person. You have enough for 2 one-way tickets doing this, but not enough for a return. As an alternative to going on CX via HKG, you could try for QF A380 J via SIN. MEL-SIN-LHR in QF J costs 128,000 per person at the Classic level. You can afford this with your current balance; that said, the award availability may be wanting, especially if you are planning to go around Easter next year (and that's just for Classic Awards, let alone Classic-level priced ASAs). SIN-LHR on QF J will cost you 84,000 points per person: the irony here is that that is enough for both of you to fly SIN-LHR in QF J, but the balance is only sufficient to fly one of you LHR-SIN similarly .

With BA Avios, you need 100,000 Avios per person one-way to fly CX J from London to Australia. For London to Hong Kong in CX J, it's 60,000 Avios per person. So in either case you haven't enough Avios even for a one-way flight for two of you. If you fly BA, you can use Part Avios Part Money to reduce the amount of Avios you need. For example, LHR-HKG on BA J (Club World) can be had for 30,000 Avios + 480 Pounds Sterling (plus taxes etc.). There's a dark art to working out whether it's better value to use Part Avios Part Money or just purchasing the Avios using the standard purchase Avios portal, but I'm not on top of it. And Part Avios Part Money is moot anyway if you are not interested in flying BA (you cannot use this feature if you fly non-BA).


My assessment - in short - is either stick to US DM whilst boosting up your balances in QF and/or BA further, or work on perhaps QF award and BA award to and from HKG/LHR, then some other award or cash tickets for MEL/HKG.


Reducing taxes? No quick ways about it. The major contributions to your taxes etc. will be (a) UK Advance Passenger Duty, and (b) fuel fines (YQ in code). The first type can be reduced if you fly out of somewhere besides LHR or fly a separate ticket (or force it so on the itinerary) from London to another nearby European city, then onward from that city to Asia / Australia. That reduces your overall APD band and thus the amount chargeable (note that APD doesn't apply when you fly into London; it applies when you fly out of London).

As for YQ, that's more inescapable. Unlike most USA-based-airline award programs and a few others around the world, QF and BA both collect the fuel fines payable even on award tickets. These are not trivial amounts, either.

As it stands, there's not a lot you can do to escape high charges, except by (a) considering a European city port-of-call other than London to escape the APD, or (b) going back to US DM to book an award!


Finally, if you are a Platinum with QF, that will greatly help with award availability. Platinums see the most availability online of all membership tiers, and also can call Qantas to request awards to be released (the request may be successful or not, but the main thing is they can do it). If you are a Bronze you may have great difficulty in redeeming an award, even if availability programs tell you there is "availability".

 

[m9441905]

Wow Anat0l - thanks so much for including all the possible permutations! I knew it was more complex than *A but I think I'm going to re-read what you've written a couple of times after a lie down...

We've been hoarding the points on the understanding that we'd need loads to do anything and frankly the US DM offers have been too good to turn down. We've now done three DM jaunts which of course is in theory a lot of missed status credits and QFF points had we flown revenue fares on QF instead. Hubby has also flown 2x J returns this year to the UK on CX and has been raving about them. However, it's impossible for us to justify c$14k spend against c$5K to fly TG, hence wondering if we could even do it part of the way for a bit of variety and use the various points hanging around.

We did actually fly MEL-SIN-BKK with SG on the last trip but we were both very underwhelmed with the 1st sector, preferring the hard product and the service on the short day time hop from SIN to BKK over the night flight from MEL. I realise that this makes us very odd indeed but we came away scratching our heads why SG carries such a high premium over TG, who we have a bit of a soft spot for to be honest. If only they had those marvellous Jet Airways 777 on MEL as well CDG!!!

As a lowly bronze now (made it as far as Gold previously), I don't hold much hope of seeing the required availability. At least DM continues to be an option but of course, we're only buying on an as needed basis due to the continuing uncertainty over US joining OW. Presumably if we had an itinerary ticketed now for Easter, they would have to honour it but I do wonder what might happen in the event of a schedule change or cancellation. What do you reckon?

Ikara - you missed a trick on your shore leave, what did you spend all your money on, Women? Beer? ;-)

 

[anat0l]

We've been hoarding the points on the understanding that we'd need loads to do anything and frankly the US DM offers have been too good to turn down.

Yes, those US DM points are almost giving the awards away. I feel sorry for the *A partners (e.g. LH etc.) who have to give up such cheap seats to US DM when their own members have to work so much harder to get those same seats.

Another thing I forgot to mention: consider that one passenger CX J MEL-HKG-LHR will cost 278,000 points return. For mere 10,000 points on top of this, you could redeem a zone 10 J oneworld award, which will allow one passenger to fly up to 35,000 miles and 5 stopovers to anywhere in the world. (Of course, hoarding the next 316,000 points required to get to that point might be a test of patience!)

As a lowly bronze now (made it as far as Gold previously), I don't hold much hope of seeing the required availability.

As they say, you can always try. And, the golden rule of finding premium awards (no matter the FF program), be as flexible as possible!

At least DM continues to be an option but of course, we're only buying on an as needed basis due to the continuing uncertainty over US joining OW. Presumably if we had an itinerary ticketed now for Easter, they would have to honour it but I do wonder what might happen in the event of a schedule change or cancellation. What do you reckon?

If you aren't a US Dividend Miles Chairman's Preferred, then the redeposit fee for miles is $150. In the USA, US DM members, for some reason, calls this a travesty. Yeah, it's a bigger fee than most are used to, but a redeposit of miles and re-redemption is still cheaper than most first-out redemptions with YQ, let alone the cash cost of a premium ticket, so I wouldn't be complaining too much!

I have never thought about US and the implications if they merge with AA, and/or join oneworld (if it'll happen). Either way, your booked tickets will either stand as is and be honoured (though your rights to access lounges may change, and that might be a bit of a kerfuffle), or, worse comes to worse, you can try searching for availability on oneworld to re-use your spent miles (i.e. cop the $150 fee, rebook on oneworld, and hopefully none of the oneworld carriers will enforce YQ on US DM redemptions). You might be able to force the hand of agents a bit more if your schedule / flights dramatically change due to the merger.

Bottom line - I wouldn't worry about it at all. So I stand by my previous recommendations.

 

[m9441905]

Anat0l - thanks again, I definitely don't have the required patience to gather even more OW points but thanks for the tips and really appreciate the detailed responses. Thank the Lord for DM, it's enabled both of us to have 4 trips 'home' in 4 years for various reasons, not all planned so I have very few complaints about the program.

Overall I'm quite happy trundling back and forth on TG, leaving others to stress about LH/LX F and the whacky routings etc etc if the alternative is down the back in the cheap seats! As I said, huge soft spot for TG as hubby proposed while we were flying F near the Himalayas. It was a pretty magical experience and there was one other F Pax in 2A who was clueless (as was everyone else on board)

 

[anat0l]

Anat0l - thanks again, I definitely don't have the required patience to gather even more OW points but thanks for the tips and really appreciate the detailed responses. Thank the Lord for DM, it's enabled both of us to have 4 trips 'home' in 4 years for various reasons, not all planned so I have very few complaints about the program.

Overall I'm quite happy trundling back and forth on TG, leaving others to stress about LH/LX F and the whacky routings etc etc if the alternative is down the back in the cheap seats! As I said, huge soft spot for TG as hubby proposed while we were flying F near the Himalayas. It was a pretty magical experience and there was one other F Pax in 2A who was clueless (as was everyone else on board)

No problems. Don't forget to maintain your QFF points balances you just need activity in points at least once in an 18 month contiguous period, so it's easy to keep afloat. That said, let's pray for no points requirements increases...... and you'll get the award you want one day.

You're not the only one on AFF who has experienced a proposal in the air:!:

TG's award availability seems fairly free flowing at the moment in all classes. That may dry up in the very pointy end soon (but then again, so could US DM prostituting its points), but suffice to say if you can live with TG's shortfalls then it's an easy choice for *A redemptions. (Personally I can sleep in angled flat beds, so I don't have much problem selecting TG J per se).