AFR's Joe Aston goes BAM!

[Kerrodt]

And I'd agree. I was merely musing, given brand Finance have come up with a figure, how Qantas accounts for the value of its brand.

If its not goodwill, or an intangible, how do they account for it? If Qantas suddenly changed its name to Wedgetail or something, you'd have to think that the share market value of the company at least would fall quite a lot, demonstrating that the 'Qantas' name has real value, therefore an asset, which I think is self evident anyway.

In very general terms because goodwill and intangibles are a very complex area of accounting, goodwill and particularly the goodwill associated with a brand cannot be created by the company and put on the balance sheet - created out of thin air as such. It has to be acquired to be recognised - effectively the business bought by someone else and the acquirer would account for the goodwill as a part of their acquisition price.

Given that’s nobody has ever acquired QF, apart from at least 1 attempt, there is no goodwill for the brand on the balance sheet.

The goodwill that does exist on the balance sheet already is the goodwill that QF have recognised when they have acquired other businesses Over time.

(Also, but not too relevant here, is that there are more components to goodwill and intangibles than just brand value. Intangibles like patents, trademarks etc).

 

[RooFlyer]

In very general terms because goodwill and intangibles are a very complex area of accounting, goodwill and particularly the goodwill associated with a brand cannot be created by the company and put on the balance sheet - created out of thin air as such.

That's interesting - thanks. Without wanting to delve into the dark arts of accounting, seems a bit unfair that a brand developed in-house by a company and a real sales (profit/value) driver can't be assigned some 'directors value' on the balance sheet. Would have to be signed off by an independent auditor as reasonable and by rules might be restricted to something like no more than 5% of turnover. But I digress ...

 

[CaptJCool]

Only the share market is allowed to create favourable shifts on price “out of thin air” or via the Mergers & Acquisition process
But I digress

 

[Kerrodt]

That's interesting - thanks. Without wanting to delve into the dark arts of accounting, seems a bit unfair that a brand developed in-house by a company and a real sales (profit/value) driver can't be assigned some 'directors value' on the balance sheet. Would have to be signed off by an independent auditor as reasonable and by rules might be restricted to something like no more than 5% of turnover. But I digress ...

Hahaha…this would assume that directors and auditors are both knowledgeable in accounting and finance as well as having 100% integrity. Not throwing any shade of QF here, just a more broad comment As there have been some horror stories over time.

If you take the market value of QF which is $9.4bn as at yesterdays close, and the net assets of the company which was $117mn as at 31/12/23, there is a significant difference in values here - over $9bn. Some of that, a lot of that, is goodwill and intangibles associated with the business that is not reflected in the net assets on the balance sheet. The point here is that the market is a reasonably good “machine” for working out the value of a company, beyond just net assets, that capture the intangible value of everything else - goodwill etc.

 

[drron]

At the moment the market is a voting machine but in the long term it will become a weighing machine. That will be the time to assess the value of QF.

 

[BD1959]

QR/AY business to Helsinki $6000. My travel agent says there’s no apparent time limit on this fare but it might disappear any time.

Yet, you’ve got all those lemmings who stump up thousands more than they need to and enjoy their Neil Perry green leaf.

Nothing to do with NP lettuce (non) mix. Some “lemmings” avoid QR for a number of reasons, not least its treatment of staff and the whole issue of how QR/Doha Airport Authorities treated a plane load of female passengers.

Rather pick up AY via SE Asia than trust QR “care”.

Regards,

BD

 

[MooTime]

Nothing to do with NP lettuce (non) mix. Some “lemmings” avoid QR for a number of reasons, not least its treatment of staff and the whole issue of how QR/Doha Airport Authorities treated a plane load of female passengers.

Rather pick up AY via SE Asia than trust QR “care”.

Regards,

BD

Hardly relevant bringing up that on this thread.

 

[RooFlyer]

Nothing to do with NP lettuce (non) mix. Some “lemmings” avoid QR for a number of reasons, not least its treatment of staff and the whole issue of how QR/Doha Airport Authorities treated a plane load of female passengers.

Hope they avoid Sydney Airport as well, as its part owned by the Qataris

 

[BD1959]

Hardly relevant bringing up that on this thread.

What … “lemmings” …??

Seriously, the quoted post related to people and preferences with respect to flying QR. I’d suggest my response was totally in keeping with that.

Regards,

BD

Post automatically merged: Apr 4, 2024

Hope they avoid Sydney Airport as well, as its part owned by the Qataris

Then additional reasons to avoid SYD. Now, if only QF would facilitate that!!

Regards,

BD

 

[tdimdad]

[Off-topic]
Today's Fairfax papers have an article about shareholder advisory against Richard Goyder as the Chair of Woodside. Seems that his leadership is ruffling feathers over there, too. Their sticking point is around the company's climate plan and actions.

A couple of quotes from the article for those who might bump into a paywall:

...influential proxy adviser CGI Glass Lewis ... has recommended clients reject the Woodside climate plan and vote against Goyder’s re-election.
...it said was Woodside’s “continuous failure” to provide adequate disclosure of how it has sought to address shareholders’ long-held climate concerns.
“We found reason to have significant concerns with regard to the company’s responsiveness to its shareholders,” CGI Glass Lewis said in its report.
“This has been a long-running concern at the company, and we do not believe that it has taken appropriate steps to alleviate it in recent years.

The Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibilitiy (ACCR), a shareholder activism group, has filed a members’ statement opposing Goyder’s re-election, claiming he has been “persistently unresponsive” to concerns about climate risk.
“The chair carries ultimate responsibility for the company’s direction, and therefore it is the chair who must be held accountable for Woodside’s current approach,” it said in the statement.

Woodside has responded, stating that the claims omit engagements it has held with major shareholders. The end of the article refers to Goyder's time at Qantas but offers nothing new there.
[Back to on-topic]

 

[RSVKanga]

Yet, you’ve got all those lemmings who stump up thousands more than they need to and enjoy their Neil Perry green leaf.

@RooFlyer, I’m genuinely concerned about this blatant direct and indirect praising and defence of QR (and trashing of QF) in almost every other thread combined with the fact that you haven’t yet denied any connections to QR. This type of language is congruent with multiple QR lobbyists based in Australia, and whenever I ask you whether you have commercial associations with QR, you always say “see my name” - well, I remind you that QR lobbyists in Australia try to paint themselves with a QF identity to quell others’ perception of them, so your name isn’t a suitable point of defence. I’ve already stated that I have no associations with QF, so do you have any commercial associations with QR or not? It’s a Yes or No answer.

 

[jase05]

@RooFlyer, I’m genuinely concerned about this blatant direct and indirect praising and defence of QR (and trashing of QF) in almost every other thread combined with the fact that you haven’t yet denied any connections to QR. This type of language is congruent with multiple QR lobbyists based in Australia, and whenever I ask you whether you have commercial associations with QR, you always say “see my name” - well, I remind you that QR lobbyists in Australia try to paint themselves with a QF identity to quell others’ perception of them, so your name isn’t a suitable point of defence. I’ve already stated that I have no associations with QF, so do you have any commercial associations with QR or not? It’s a Yes or No answer.

I’m pretty sure @RooFlyer can defend themselves but I’m almost certain that they aren’t associated with QR as they have been a very regular poster on this site for many years and has made some very valuable contributions to this site over the years. I think there are many of us on here who will give a fair whack to any airline that isn’t offering good service. I don’t think any airline is exempt from criticism on here and facts are QF are currently very poor in many areas, no point sugarcoating it

 

[TheRealTMA]

@RooFlyer, I’m genuinely concerned about this blatant direct and indirect praising and defence of QR (and trashing of QF) in almost every other thread combined with the fact that you haven’t yet denied any connections to QR. This type of language is congruent with multiple QR lobbyists based in Australia, and whenever I ask you whether you have commercial associations with QR, you always say “see my name” - well, I remind you that QR lobbyists in Australia try to paint themselves with a QF identity to quell others’ perception of them, so your name isn’t a suitable point of defence. I’ve already stated that I have no associations with QF, so do you have any commercial associations with QR or not? It’s a Yes or No answer.

I'm sure @RooFlyer can adaquately reply, but my reply would be there's a kangaroo loose in the top paddock if someone thinks that.

As well, the trashing of QF doesn’t need help frm AFF members and is adequately being done by the brand itself with recent performances.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm sure @RooFlyer can adaquately reply, but my reply would be there's a kangaroo loose in the top paddock if someone things that.

I've said before, I'm sure its all a leg pull but in the consistent absence of anything like a , we are obliged to take it all at face value.

In the meantime, I'm very happy to let 'em stew in their own conspiratorial juices.

Just call me Akky.

I’m pretty sure @RooFlyer can defend themselves but I’m almost certain that they aren’t associated with QR as they have been a very regular poster on this site for many years and has made some very valuable contributions to this site over the years.

That's kind of you; but don't take it seriously - I don't.

Akky

 

[RooFlyer]

Joe Aston a guest on this week's AFR Chanticleer podcast:

Joe Aston on Qantas’ nosedive | Star CEO’s danger money | Myer’s makeover

 

[QF WP]

[mod hat firmly on]
A number of posts have been deleted as crossing the moderation threshold (off topic and personal attacks). So please be extra careful about what you post as transgressions of AFF T&Cs will not be tolerated.
[/mod hat]

 

[kangarooflyer88]

New update on the saga of the biography of Uncle Alan to be released on October 29th titled, "The Chairman’s Lounge: The Inside Story of How Qantas Sold Us Out" by Joe Aston. As reported by Myriam Robin from the AFR's Rear Window column, it would seem that Qantas is not too pleased about the biography writing that,

Two days later, Qantas will attempt to wine and dine its way into the good graces of those who matter. We mean – in this instance – the nation’s leading journalists, many of whom have been invited to an “exclusive dining experience” at Neil Perry’s just-opened Song Bird restaurant, alongside Qantas executives.

It should be noted that Myriam wrote earlier this month in the AFR that Uncle Alan has hired two high powered PR operatives (Steve Lewis and Andrew Maiden) to turn on the spin cycle ahead of the release of this biography, which no doubt will not be the most flattering thing written about the former CEO of Qantas.

So I think this raises the question, what is the purpose of this joint effort by Qantas and Uncle Alan to spin what will undoubtedly be an unflattering biography on the man and the legacy he has saddled Qantas with:

1. Reducing the likelihood more of Uncle Alan's golden parachute gets whittled away
2. Reducing the likelihood that the government will meddle in the affairs of Qantas, particularly surrounding things like consumer rights
3. Something else?

In any event, it's good to see the biography is coming to fruition and I for one certainly look forward to reading this on my next long haul Qantas flight.

-RooFlyer88

 

[docjames]

Book will have a fair degree of legal review before publication I’d have thought - always gutsy writing a biography on someone still alive who doesn’t have input into the content. Accuracy will be questionable - but then, that’s “journalism” these days…..be first (not right) seems to be the current mantra….

 

[Quickstatus]

biography of Uncle Alan

Might be worth buying one and absentmindedly leave one in the QF Lounge....

 

[CaptJCool]

Let’s look back in 22 years