Air Asia and Meal Changes - One cup <> 100mls.

[ethernet]

One Cup <> 100 mls. Just sent them a wake up notice as they try a bit of weight reduction or upselling 2nds and 3rds. Popular demand eh? I don't think so. Dehydration and DVT are linked. I'll rattle their cage.

Dear Sir /Madam,

Please take this complaint very seriously - it has legal implications.

Today I received an email titled Pre-Book Meal Changes - stating

"BY POPULAR DEMAND, effective 1 May 2011, we have changed our beverage option for all Pre-Booked Meals to a 100ml cup of mineral water. To ensure you enjoy our meals even more, we have also upsized the meals at NO EXTRA CHARGE! All this is to serve you better onboard AirAsia flights."

I hope this is a misprint, because 100ml is very small and NOT a cup.
By LAW a cup depends on where you live In the U.S., one cup = 240 ml. In Australia, one cup = 250 ml, or 1/4 liter. In the U.K., one cup = 1/2 imperial pint, or 285 ml

I'm sure your airline would be very embarrassed should the weights and measures people prosecute your airline for misleading practices and deception. I am not sure why a 500ml bottle previously provided would be less popular than a 40% full cup.

I hope you carefully consider this and your corporate response.

Thank You

 

[tuppaware]

You get what you pay for. So the old saying goes.

I think back to different sizes of wine across europe. But clean water is a basic human right.

 

[ethernet]

Weights and measures will have their cough in a sling.
Death penalty here: Code of Carolina » News from different disciplines although this code may be slightly out of date.
History Here: The History of Weighing and
Victorian London - Publications - Social Investigation/Journalism - The Seven Curses of London, by James Greenwood, 1869 or
NATIONAL MEASUREMENT ACT 1960

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some medieval penalties emphasised didactic values: millers and bakers who had used false weights for example or had adulterated products might be hanged with the lying scales around their neck or burned in their own ovens, counterfeiters were occasionally crushed by sacks of 'true' coins in a variation on traditional pein forte et dure or had molten metal poured down their throats.[/FONT]

Sigh: Wish we could go back to the good ol' days.

 

[oz_mark]

I think in the context, cup tells you the type of vessel the water will be delivered to you in.

Can you show where 'cup' is a legal unit of measurment in Australia?

 

[anat0l]

Come on - 'fess up.

The real beef here is not that you're trying to get Air Asia to comply with "the law" (I can't see good proof in the Australian Act which you've linked, although I will admit I haven't had a deep look into it), but rather you're just mighty p*ssed off that instead of an included 500 mL bottle you now only get a 100 mL ..... "cup looking vessel" (there, is that better?)

I believe in some parts of the world they call these rather common small vessels of water "cuplets". Sounds odd, but again I guess this sidesteps some of the OP's beef (i.e. it's not called a cup but it looks like a cup or bowl, so let's call it a small version of a cup, called 'cuplet').

 

[mannej]

Although I think you are referring to the legal implications of the incorrect measurements, I am interested to see if you believe that D7 would be responsible for a DVT case based on down sizing their mineral water bottle size?

 

[casanovawa]

The announcement goes to show the world over that people involved in the corporate spin business think by putting a positive sounding word/phrase before taking some benefit/short changing the customer, that people will be fooled...

Air Asia's 'by popular demand' cough isn't all that different to Qantas's 'enhancement' of reduced benefits...

 

[ethernet]

Although I think you are referring to the legal implications of the incorrect measurements, I am interested to see if you believe that D7 would be responsible for a DVT case based on down sizing their mineral water bottle size?

Precisely. I could see how that could be argued. Action, cause and effect. You would then need statistically reliable information to compare against other airlines - ditto for seat spacing, or say suing the airport because it was stingy on chairs/facilities.
Trouble is airlines hide this info, while some popular blockers - Vioxx / diabetes drugs were causing cardiac events (now withdrawn from sale) - allows doubt to be thrown up (the window/tail could be a decade or more).

AirAsia X are longish 8 hour flights, so hydration is important, and concocted means to
cut back on water is not a good starting point. Many airlines give everyone a 500ml bottle - it is both wise, and cheap insurance. More water for long US flights?

Give it a few years, and there will be an iPhone 'App' that with a few stick on microphones and electrodes, can log fliers 'events'. There are DIY USB ultrasound devices on the market. Then there will be statistics.

You would have to prove it, very iffy, and you would not want the hosties not to encourage exercises and water, and as a FF you would have to do your bit of responsibility. QF and JQ make a point of mentioning this, always, and one airline used to show exercises on the headrest monitor (Emirates?).

Finally the Trade Practices Act - deceptive and misleading conduct, will also cover
this Mea Cupla (sic). 'Popular demand' before introduction - good one or deceit. I believe 285 Ml Coke cans are the most 'popular' in cattle class.

Air Asia can fix it by calling it correctly - a 'cuplet' or a 'minature cup' or '100ml plastic blister tub of water' and they will be off the hook, except for me who will insist on original choice, and remind them a 'cup' usually has a handle.

Once, I ordered a Cognac - and came to me in a plastic thing. I waved the hosty off, stating Cognac must always be served in glass, and it came back in the proper glass.

Tin foil topped plastic blow blister packs with sharp edges are simply uncivilized.
The only other places I have seen cheating going on is Venice (minature coke bottles - smallest I have ever seen), and a Turkish 'cup' of Coffee the size of a thimble.
Italian espressos come in a different cup too, but for plain water, its regular cup in the common vernacular.

 

[k_sheep]

It's a LCC. Don't expect any different.

I always take an empty 750ml bottle through and refill it at the gate, or if leaving from KUL LCCT then buy 3x 500ml bottles at the health food store for the grand sum of $1.50 (since they removed the water fountain - assuming it hasn't been replaced yet).

 

[ethernet]

It's a LCC. Don't expect any different.

I always take an empty 750ml bottle through and refill it at the gate, or if leaving from KUL LCCT then buy 3x 500ml bottles at the health food store for the grand sum of $1.50 (since they removed the water fountain - assuming it hasn't been replaced yet).

Clever. Yes, so do I. Does not work so well for all countries- say as some brands of bottled Cambodian treated water are not safe to drink. I also take a 1.25 litre bottle
to tip my duty-free into, shaving 1kg of weight off. (but the booze is 1kg).

Thankfully at KLIA, the bod's who x-ray your bags - I never seem to have troubles with a 400ml frozen bottle in my hand luggage. It begs the question of now some x-ray machines 'know' water - why are we doing this, unless it is a revenue thing?

The beauty of a 500 ml water bottle is that is if its not cold, as it should be, I ask for a cup and ice refills, so with my other bottles, I have cold drinks all the way.

Anyway as Air Asia has not replied in a timely manner, I have just lodged a formal complaint with ACCC alleging misleading and deceptive conduct, and a unilateral termination of my choices without options.

 

[markis10]

Anyway as Air Asia has not replied in a timely manner, I have just lodged a formal complaint with ACCC alleging misleading and deceptive conduct, and a unilateral termination of my choices without options.

I dont see it as misleading or deceptive in that they have specifically said the size of the serving and the type of vessel its served in, by comparison are we going to lodge a complaint against Bunnings because they will sell me a metre of chain that is not a chain in length?

 

[anat0l]

...except for me who will insist on original choice, and remind them a 'cup' usually has a handle.

A cup usually has a handle?

Fair enough (I had to check a dictionary for this), but the key word is usually - a cup doesn't necessarily have a handle on it. To that extent, if you ordered a cup of water, you would expect it to come in a cup (e.g. a tea-cup)? Not say, a coffee mug, or a glass tumbler.......

What do you call those plastic open-ended vessels usually shaped as a cone frustrum that are typically used as a cheap container for the purpose of containing beverages, if they cannot be called "plastic cups" (since they most typically lack a handle, and most sold in Australia don't hold 250 mL)?


From the sounds of things, you would probably be the person who might fly First Class and upon being served caviar, would chastise the airline very, very bitterly that it was not served in the container, on a bed of ice, and complemented with a mother-of-pearl or bone spoon.

 

[mannej]

I thought that you may be alluding to this, however like you said that the size of the water alone would not have enough causation alone to create liability.
Having not flown any form of Air Asia, I would not know if they have any information about in-flight health (their website does not) whilst on-board.

As an aside, I can not remember being served a 500ml bottle of water when I have asked, it has always either been in a cup, blister tub or small bottle, but never a full size bottle.

 

[ethernet]

Being Australianised, I accept that the plastic vessels used to sell beer at say the footy,
is called a cup, and the cardboard 'cups' used to serve coffee at Macca's. Little fold out cardboard handles are seldom seen nowadays.
I think the small coffee cups approximate 250mls. If you served a yobbo at said football match a 100ml 'cup' of beer, I think fists would fly. When Aussie beer makers tried to sneak in a 45ml bottle size reduction, the punters punished their market share. Even the crudely pressed ceramic 'cups' at University hold > 100 ml. At Parliament house, our elected members get finer quality china, and some gold embossing.

I cant remember which airline gives everyone a water bottle (other than First) - but its seems in my mind quite common (or was last year). Since inflight turbluence events , I can see why airlines may want to cease the practice.

The reason why this change is offensive is that 100ml of drink is not enough to go with a meal, and deceptive, because previous beverage options appear to have been withdrawn (coffee, tea, soft drink or 500ml water with your meal sir?). The PR morons who pressed for 'by popular demand' without clearance, deserve a swift kick.

Sure you can say things like 'All seats upright, all mobile phones off, all electronic devices off, all earphones out' but really who listens?. Same for after landing.
So '100ml cup' is accepted just as readily as 'painless carbon tax' or 'Flood levy' , when thicker people figure out they are not better off after all well after the event.

 

[anat0l]

Being Australianised, I accept that the plastic vessels used to sell beer at say the footy,
is called a cup, and the cardboard 'cups' used to serve coffee at Macca's. Little fold out cardboard handles are seldom seen nowadays.
I think the small coffee cups approximate 250mls. If you served a yobbo at said football match a 100ml 'cup' of beer, I think fists would fly. When Aussie beer makers tried to sneak in a 45ml bottle size reduction, the punters punished their market share. Even the crudely pressed ceramic 'cups' at University hold > 100 ml. At Parliament house, our elected members get finer quality china, and some gold embossing.

Right, so the whole thing here is not that you're discontent that a cup needs to have a handle and should always contain 250 mL, it's that you're unhappy about the fact they've downgraded the size of the serving of water from 500 mL (most conveniently served to you in a bottle cf. a plastic pint "cup") to 100 mL (which comes in a "cup" like container).

Separate the arguments here - you are not content about the amount of water you are receiving because you think it is a serious downgrade and inadequate for the meal. It's not about the fact that the cup is not 250mL.

Similarly with your beer example, fists fly because 100mL of beer is rather insulting an amount. Not that it should be 250mL of beer, it's just that 100mL is too small an amount, period (that's not even close to a pot).

The reason why this change is offensive is that 100ml of drink is not enough to go with a meal, and deceptive, because previous beverage options appear to have been withdrawn (coffee, tea, soft drink or 500ml water with your meal sir?). The PR morons who pressed for 'by popular demand' without clearance, deserve a swift kick.

And once again, the beef here is that you believe 100mL of water is insufficient, not that it was branded as a 'cup' and you firmly believe that should be 250mL. The long and short of your beef is that you think that 100mL is a serious downgrade and you should be served more than 100mL. If you were served 500mL you probably wouldn't care if it came in a bottle but they mistakenly advertised it as a cup. The mere fact that the quantity is low is your beef - not the container and not this whole discussion about what constitutes a cup of something.

The other parts of your beef are the withdrawal of other beverage options (which sounds really odd - why would you not offer these other things for sale), and the use of the phrase 'by popular demand', both of which are separate from the previous argument.

Sure you can say things like 'All seats upright, all mobile phones off, all electronic devices off, all earphones out' but really who listens?

What the hell does this have to do with the argument?

And mostly I think these things are said as a "cover all bases" measure. If people don't listen, that's fine, but if they are later penalised for a breach of a code of sorts, then they can't say they were not warned, because they clearly had been told if only according to procedure.

So '100ml cup' is accepted just as readily as 'painless carbon tax' or 'Flood levy' , when thicker people figure out they are not better off after all well after the event.

Now that's just pulling at straws.

Again, the beef is not that a cup is not 100mL ("it should be 250mL"), it's the plain fact that you believe that 100mL is an insufficient quantity of water to serve with the meal. A cup in this context is used in the generic sense of a vessel which may or may not have a handle used for the purposes of containing beverage. The requirement to use cup only when it can definitively stand for 250mL places unreasonable demands on language use, and you've conceded that to a certain extent at the beginning of your last post (as well as the point of say what about Italian espresso coffee cups which can be very small, but we still call them cups even though they couldn't hold more than 50 mL if you're lucky).

As for 'painless carbon tax' and 'flood levy' - what has this got to do with the argument? Those rather baseless examples you've provided are merely expressions of your opinion (in a sarcastic manner) for those particular issues. I fail to see the point you are illustrating here in connection with the rest. And you would have to be very, very thick to see "cup" and immediately assume all the time this means 250mL (so adding a qualifier like "100mL" is both redundant and ridiculous).


We could avoid all this argument if you just repitch your problem, which is simply: "100mL is a pitiful amount of water to serve with the meal. At least make it 250mL but bring back the 500mL bottle!"

 

[JohnK]

What size cup of mineral water is Air Asia providing now before their changes? Personally I do not think it is a big deal as Air Asia ia a LCC and they are just trying to make money selling extras. Surely the savings achieved on the airfares is more than enough to cover the purchase of an extra "cup" or two of mineral water!

From memory the "cups" of water that QF offers on domestic services is ~110mls. But then they are also complimentary....

 

[mannej]

What size cup of mineral water is Air Asia providing now before their changes? Personally I do not think it is a big deal as Air Asia ia a LCC and they are just trying to make money selling extras. Surely the savings achieved on the airfares is more than enough to cover the purchase of an extra "cup" or two of mineral water!

From memory the "cups" of water that QF offers on domestic services is ~110mls. But then they are also complimentary....

500ml original, 100ml now, from what I can gather cost is RM3


Sent from my iPhone using AFF Mobile

 

[Justchecking]

I want the last ten minutes of my life back....:shock:

I'm sure your sternly worded complaint involving the word 'legal' will have them quaking in their boots, likewise I'm equally certain the govt watchdog will treat your complaint most seriously by pressing the DEL key.

How about get over it, make alternative arrangements and enjoy your weekend instead of moaning about 400mls of missing water which you can easily provide for yourself.

 

[JohnK]

500ml original, 100ml now, from what I can gather cost is RM3

That is a significant decrease in serving size (is the new size a typing error?) but at the same time the cost is ~AUD0.90!

 

[medhead]

Being Australianised, I accept that the plastic vessels used to sell beer at say the footy, is called a cup,

Similarly with your beer example, fists fly because 100mL of beer is rather insulting an amount. Not that it should be 250mL of beer, it's just that 100mL is too small an amount, period (that's not even close to a pot).

I think you're both confusing a term like cup and a measure like a pot. IME the beer at the footy is served in a fixed measure, called a schooner, in a plastic container known colloquially as a cup. IMO the fact that Air Asia has linked a volume to a term like cup, that (may be) is a legal measure, makes it acceptable to then make a complaint on the basis that the volume offer is not a legal cup volume. If they had of say we'll give you a cup of water, on the other hand......