ATR news...

[Tuddy]

From my sources at the airline...
Within the next few months we will see:
SYD/ABX and MEL/MQL transferring across from the current Embraers (when I've done the Albury flights, they've been half-empty anyways...) to ATRs
A new destination launched (hinted perhaps at being in NSW)
More Queensland flights

Not too much was elaborated on in terms of where "more Queensland flights" would be going to, nor where this new destination would be. My hunch? Given the new Emerald lunchtime flight, I'd think perhaps we'll see an additional Gladstone flight (they seem to be doing quite well). The new destination I'd guess to be Tamworth (security is presently being installed for the Q400s...meaning the ATRs can asily operate in). I also think that the change from Embraer to ATR on Albury and Mildura flights is wise - although I'd like to see a second Mildura flight (so there's a morning and evening flight).

 

[mitchsheehy]

I would say that you are right tuddy, but I think that maybe Syd or Cbr based Atr 72 so that they could fly Syd-Abx-Mel and Mel-Mql then back or just Syd-Abx and cbr-Mel-mql ( finger crossed Dpo).

You would think Syd-Tamworth-bne and bne-Cfs would be on the cards!

Sorry for any typos or odd places for capitols , I am using my iPhone and it has a mind of its own sometimes

 

[Nigelinoz]

How I wish VA would operate an ATR on the ABX-MEL route to give Rex some competition,I have become so fed up with the old SAAB 340's that Rex uses that recently
I have been taking the train!
Cheers
N'oz

 

[Boris spatsky]

I have heard from DJ staff friends that the ATR economics means that the thing only needs to be about 1/3 full to break even on short routes. Same as the Q400 for QF.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

How I wish VA would operate an ATR on the ABX-MEL route to give Rex some competition,I have become so fed up with the old SAAB 340's that Rex uses that recently
I have been taking the train!
Cheers
N'oz

OT, but wouldn't driving make sense also? Assuming you have a 1/2 hour drive each end of the flight, 1/2 hour at each airport (check-in, luggage, hire car etc) and 1 hour in the air, doesn't that make 3 hours (same as driving)?

 

[Nigelinoz]

OT, but wouldn't driving make sense also? Assuming you have a 1/2 hour drive each end of the flight, 1/2 hour at each airport (check-in, luggage, hire car etc) and 1 hour in the air, doesn't that make 3 hours (same as driving)?

Yeah I have driven a few times but the cost to fill my '98 Falcon vs the train fare,plus the fact that the train drops me right in the centre of Melbourne and I don't need
to pay tolls etc means that the train is rapidly becoming a regular replacement for flights on uncomfortable Rex planes.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[Noob]

Yeah I have driven a few times but the cost to fill my '98 Falcon vs the train fare,plus the fact that the train drops me right in the centre of Melbourne and I don't need
to pay tolls etc means that the train is rapidly becoming a regular replacement for flights on uncomfortable Rex planes.
Cheers
N'oz

Makes sense for Regional Express to eventually replace some of their fleet with ATR-42 aircraft - probably have better economics to the now quite old SAAB-340Bs.

 

[Tuddy]

Thought it interesting to note that from 3 July, TSV-CNS and TSV-ROK will be operated by ATR as opposed to E190. The SYD-ROK flight (which used to be part of the SYD-ROK-TSV-CNS-TSV-ROK-SYD run) will continue to operate with E190s, though will be in the middle of the day. All flights are now daily (although SYD-ROK doesn't operate on Saturday).
The new schedule for the ATRs is as follows:
Aircraft 1
there are no morning services, but could we perhaps see additional TSV-CNS flights in the future?
TSV-1115
ROK-1300/1330
BNE-1500
logically, this aircraft would continue on to GLT or EMD in the afternoon...
-----------------------------------
Aircraft 2
this would most likely operate a morning GLT or EMD service
BNE 1045
ROK-1220/1300
TSV-1445/1515
CNS-1615/1645
TSV-1745
again, another CNS flight would make sense here..or even ISA?

would be curious to hear some thoughts..

 

[Tuddy]

From 24 September, the ATRs will operating SYD-ABX on a similar timetable to the current E190 service.
Virgin drops jets service | The Border Mail
SYD 0805
ABX 0925
ABX 0955
SYD 1110
Following the change in daylight savings, the return flight departs ABX at 1010, arriving into SYD at 1125 (at present, no apparent reason why this is the case)
-----------
SYD 1450
ABX 1610
ABX 1645
SYD 1800

It seems that the schedules haven't been updated in general for the Northern Winter schedule, with E190s being bookable for the North Queensland routes and reduced frequencies to the mining centres. Perhaps when this is fixed up, a clearer picture will emerge as to what the scheduling of aircraft is. On presently provided scheduling, 3 SYD-centred (i.e. operating the SYD-CBR, ABX and PQQ routes) would be required (and a fourth if you consider the BNE-PQQ changeover), yet there is a lot of down time for one aircraft, and no final destination for another. Schedule outline shown below.

A/C 1 CBR/SYD/PQQ/BNE > QLD operations
A/C 2 CBR/SYD/CBR/SYD/CBR/SYD/CBR/SYD/CBR/SYD/CBR (this one doesn't get a lot of variety...)
A/C 3 QLD operations > BNE/PQQ/SYD/ABX/SYD/??? (this aircraft arrives into SYD at 18:00)
A/C 4 ???/SYD/ABX/SYD/???/SYD/PQQ/SYD/CBR (this aircraft begins service with an 08:05 service and has a break in SYD after arrival from ABX at 11:25 until departure to PQQ at 1610)

Thoughts?

 

[MichaelD]

Bah humbug!

The Friday pm E190 out of ABX was invariably full and a much more pleasant alternative to the Q400. Back to Qantas on that sector for me.

Tamworth - some competition would be nice as Qantas tend to price gouge on the route, but...

What's with Virgin putting ATRs or E190s on routes to compete with Qantas 737s? Sorry Virgin - no J, no sale unless you offer E190 when Qantas offers Q400. Had this crop up on a heap of flights I've just booked; Gladstone (717 vs ATR), Mt Isa, Kalgoorlie - all went to Qantas because they have J.

Competition might be nice, but I'm not that interested if you put up an inferior product.

 

[markis10]

What's with Virgin putting ATRs or E190s on routes to compete with Qantas 737s? Sorry Virgin - no J, no sale unless you offer E190 when Qantas offers Q400. Had this crop up on a heap of flights I've just booked; Gladstone (717 vs ATR), Mt Isa, Kalgoorlie - all went to Qantas because they have J.

Competition might be nice, but I'm not that interested if you put up an inferior product.

GLT did not have jets from QF until DJ decided to move in (nor a QP). Virgin operate the smaller aircraft because it's economical for them, which means they can provide competition and lower airfares for all at that port, in the case of GLT, Strategic already proved that larger jets don't work, so DJ provide an ATR service that means the folks of GLT are not catching a QBird that's arriving from ROK that would have been cheaper to catch in ROK by 300%.

Unless you have been caught by the fantastic QF J sale to GLT for $1200 one way ex SYD, that's sees you flying in J to Brisbane in a seat that cost $600, then paying $600 to sit in Y on the 717 with everyone else!

No J no sale, what are you doing on a 717 if do what you say, makes your post something of a complete Oxymoron

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Strategic already proved that larger jets don't work,

I'm not sure Stategics demise proves that larger jets in GLT doesn't work. I for one still fly into ROK and drive to GLT because I dislike the ATR with a passion. The E-190 to ATR IMHO is like comparing a transfer in a 7 series BMW to a council bus service. I dislike sitting on the tarmac swealtering because they couldn't be bothered hooking up the air, I dislike the uncomfortable seats, I dislike the snails pace flight (although I do note VA have slowed their non ATR flights down....presumably to save fuel), I dislike snaking up a runway whilst trying to get it airbourne, I dislike not being able to buy a wine on the way home and I dislike not being able to recline if I have no one behind me.

Perhaps VA should do rotations into GLT more like ROK, where one can choose to fly either a Fokker, an E jet, an ATR or a 737.

 

[markis10]

I'm not sure Stategics demise proves that larger jets in GLT doesn't work. I for one still fly into ROK and drive to GLT because I dislike the ATR with a passion. The E-190 to ATR IMHO is like comparing a transfer in a 7 series BMW to a council bus service. I dislike sitting on the tarmac swealtering because they couldn't be bothered hooking up the air, I dislike the uncomfortable seats, I dislike the snails pace flight (although I do note VA have slowed their non ATR flights down....presumably to save fuel), I dislike snaking up a runway whilst trying to get it airbourne, I dislike not being able to buy a wine on the way home and I dislike not being able to recline if I have no one behind me.

Perhaps VA should do rotations into GLT more like ROK, where one can choose to fly either a Fokker, an E jet, an ATR or a 737.

I think you will find the plane slowing has nothing to do with VA, going slow is not more economical, and of big jets worked you think QF would be using them. Reality is 100 seats and below is where the action is at.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Reality is 100 seats and below is where the action is at.

Just right for the E-jets! What about a milkrun....BNE-BDB-GLT-ROK-MKY-PPP-TSV-CNS return. Surely they'd pick up good business between the regionals with an E-Jet.

I'll start a new thread with slowing runs.

 

[markis10]

Just right for the E-jets! What about a milkrun....BNE-BDB-GLT-ROK-MKY-PPP-TSV-CNS return. Surely they'd pick up good business between the regionals with an E-Jet.

I'll start a new thread with slowing runs.

Explains why the have been trialling them! But be careful what you wish for, F100s are out there!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Explains why the have been trialling them! But be careful what you wish for, F100s are out there!

Yes I know........I'm missed them entirely, so far!

Actually, I could add another port to that milkrun....OOL. It'd suit me as long as the fares didn't cripple the concept.

 

[MichaelD]

No J no sale, what are you doing on a 717 if do what you say, makes your post something of a complete Oxymoron

717 (most likely in Row 1) vs Fokker - if you've got to go, you've got to go. May as well chose the most comfortable plane.

The overarching crux of my post is that there are an awful lot of ports where Virgin provide "competition" when what they are offering is a markedly inferior product.

Just like their J experience, "near enough is good enough" seems to be their modus operandi - just knock off a few bucks and the punters won't care that they are on a turboprop instead of a more comfortable plane.

The only exception to this that I am aware of is their superior service to OOL.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The only exception to this that I am aware of is their superior service to OOL.

And HTI.....

 

[Tuddy]

Bah humbug!

The Friday pm E190 out of ABX was invariably full and a much more pleasant alternative to the Q400. Back to Qantas on that sector for me.

But is the ATR really that inferior to the Q400 that its a snap reaction for you to fly the Q400 over the ATR? In my opinion, the ATR is a far more comfortable aicraft. And whilst the Friday pm E190 may have been full, most of the mid-week flights invariably had loads around the 50% mark.

Tamworth - some competition would be nice as Qantas tend to price gouge on the route, but...

I wholeheartedly agree with you here...or perhaps Armidale could get some love too? (don't forget the ~5,000 uni students at UNE looking to get back to civilisation on weekends). Regardless, one of the two cities in the Northern Tablelands desperately needs some ocmpetition - it'll be interesting to see whether they get any in the next round of announcements (which I'd expect to be soon based on the impending schedule gaps)

What's with Virgin putting ATRs or E190s on routes to compete with Qantas 737s? Sorry Virgin - no J, no sale unless you offer E190 when Qantas offers Q400. Had this crop up on a heap of flights I've just booked; Gladstone (717 vs ATR), Mt Isa, Kalgoorlie - all went to Qantas because they have J.

Competition might be nice, but I'm not that interested if you put up an inferior product.

The 717, as markis10 stated, doesn't offer J class...? In my humblest opinion, the comfort onboard both aircraft is comparable in Y class - so I guess the choice on the GLT route depends on your FF and pricing preferences. In terms of ISA - DJ does offer J class now, and in the near future, as announced by the General Manager of Sales, Justin Montgomery on ABC News NorthWest (the Mt Isa branch), are looking to put 737s on the route. KGI? Well, DJ don't fly to KGI and put people onto XR F100s - so I can perhaps see your QF leaning having some benefits there.

The overarching crux of my post is that there are an awful lot of ports where Virgin provide "competition" when what they are offering is a markedly inferior product.

Hmm..let's think about this. I'' give it to you that in some cases, other airlines do provide a superior service to that which DJ offers out of the respective port, whether it be by product offering or frequency - but let's look at other ports such as PPP, HTI, MKY, ROK, OOL, CFS, PQQ, HBA, LST - and even in the capital cities. To all these ports, Virgin, in some way, provides a clearly superior service to the competition - whether through offering J class, greater number of direct destinations (CFS, PQQ, HBA...), jet aircraft operations (sure, QF may have a QP in MKY - but then to load you onto a Q400, F100 or 717...?) So sure, whilst in some cases they may offer what you deem to be a 'markedly inferior' product, in many other cases, they offer a superior product to the competition (and do note, the examples I provided were merely a few off the top of my head - if I really thought about it, I could have written pages)

 

[MichaelD]

But is the ATR really that inferior to the Q400 that its a snap reaction for you to fly the Q400 over the ATR?

For me, Q400 vs ATR is Q400 every time unless the schedule is compelling. I dislike Q400s but HATE ATRs. YMMV.

...or perhaps Armidale could get some love too?

Hear, hear.That is definitely a port which could also do with some competition.

The 717, as markis10 stated, doesn't offer J class...?

And as I pointed out, when the choice is 717 vs ATR, for me it is 717 hands-down as the superior flight experience. Again, YMMV as I seem to get seated in Row 1 whenever I am on a 717 flight. There is a great deal of legroom in Row 1.

In terms of ISA - DJ does offer J class now

Where? All I see in the schedule are E190s BNE-ISA which *might* eventually get J (or maybe not). Don't get me wrong - I would be delighted to see Virgin J on this route as they seem to price these sorts of sectors quite reasonably (eg MEL-OOL), unlike the Qantas regional J price gouge.

and even in the capital cities

I cannot think of a single mainland capital city to capital city route where Virgin offers a superior product to Qantas. Slightly cheaper? Yes. Almost as good? Yes. Superior? No. Again, YMMV.

(Off topic)
There is still a vast gulf between the two organizations at all levels, exemplified by the respective responses to recent issues we raised with them;

Virgin Response: a polite version of "tough" to a complaint about their Unaccompanied Minor policy being misleading on their website which cost me 2 flights + 25,000 frequent flyer points to fix. No change to their website.
Qantas Response: a polite message of "CSM of the flight notified". Then an unannounced and unexpected $200 goodwill voucher arrived in the mail.

Virgin: Left a sour taste. Expectations not met.
Qantas: Started off sour, now much happier. Expectations exceeded.