Bank issued Amex or Amex issued Amex?

[maxmass]

Hi all,

This may be a silly question, but I am really curious as why so many apply for a Amex issued Amex instead of a bank issued Amex.

Also, most of the bank issues Amex with a Visa or Mastercard, which means you can earn points where there is a surcharge for Amex (or not even accepted).

However, Amex seems to have the most loyal customers. It makes me really wonder. Is there any hidden benefit for holding an Amex issued Amex?

Please enlighten me because I cannot decide between these two.

Ps:

I am a full time worker and part time uni student. Spending around $1500 average on credit card.

I can apply for a co-brand Amex gold CC with no annual fee. I only have need to travel internationally to HK. So I cannot justified the cost of applying a platinum edge with $149 annual per year.

Also, latter down the track, if I took on a mortgage with Commbank, they would offer a discount Amex and Mastercard with no annual fee.

Therefore, in my situation, I cannot see the benefit of an Amex issue Amex.

 

[Plutonus]

Short version: better points earn, promotions, customer service (debatable in some cases).

 

[Moopere]

For me the number one overriding reason to go with the Amex branded card is points warehousing. I like to keep my points flexible, so I keep them with Amex until I need them at say ... VA then move them across. Coming in a close second to that is earn rate. Almost all bank issued cards have a horrible conversion rate to any of the useful schemes. So, whilst they may appear on the surface to offer decent earn, this is almost always in the banks own 'loyalty' points, and converting these to airline miles is usually a humbling experience.

Customer service, imho, with Amex is light years ahead of every bank I've ever had to deal with as well - they put in real effort here and it makes a difference.

 

[prozac]

Well worded question but you did not tell us where your spend is directed. eg: Household shopping, entertainment, petrol, dining out etc. This could make a difference to the type of card you would apply for.

Another benefit of the Amex is free travel insurance if you purchase your air ticket using the amex. You may also get extended warranty on items purchased using the card.

As Moopere mentions points earned with amex have a true full point conversion to your fave FF scheme.

 

[davetonio]

For me the number one overriding reason to go with the Amex branded card is points warehousing. I like to keep my points flexible, so I keep them with Amex until I need them at say ... VA then move them across. Coming in a close second to that is earn rate. Almost all bank issued cards have a horrible conversion rate to any of the useful schemes. So, whilst they may appear on the surface to offer decent earn, this is almost always in the banks own 'loyalty' points, and converting these to airline miles is usually a humbling experience.

Customer service, imho, with Amex is light years ahead of every bank I've ever had to deal with as well - they put in real effort here and it makes a difference.

In my experience I have to agree on service, Amex is far ahead of Citi, big 4 etc etc. Well trained staff usually know the answers to questions straight up and you're rarely on hold.

Transfer to 8 airline partners which have hugely different burn rates also makes a major difference.

Maxmass can't see why wouldn't get a gold charge if its free. Then you at least have access to all the Amex bonus offers for insurance, hotel booking etc with their different partners. I saved a bunch of money at Christmas time with spend x get x $$$ credited back to your account - spending which I was doing regardless with DJs, Country Road and others.

 

[prozac]

In my experience I have to agree on service, Amex is far ahead of Citi, big 4 etc etc. Well trained staff usually know the answers to questions straight up and you're rarely on hold.

Transfer to 8 airline partners which have hugely different burn rates also makes a major difference.

Maxmass can't see why wouldn't get a gold charge if its free. Then you at least have access to all the Amex bonus offers for insurance, hotel booking etc with their different partners. I saved a bunch of money at Christmas time with spend x get x $$$ credited back to your account - spending which I was doing regardless with DJs, Country Road and others.

You would need to weigh up if you wanted the free Gold charge card (check if it has MR as part of the deal) or pay for the Gold charge card ($130p.a.) and get 30,000 bonus sign up points when you are referred for it.

 

[Archphoto]

I actually have 2 AMEX cards; one from AMEX, the other a "freebie" bundled with my ANZ VISA. Have never needed to replace the bank issued card, but have needed to replace the AMEX issued one.

Headed to my local AMEX office here in BKK and 30 minutes later, a nice shiny new card - would it be have been that simple with an ANZ/Westpac/NAB etc issued AMEX card?

 

[aerotravel]

I had this dilemma at one point when I had CBA Platinum cards (free when I used to work there) and Amex Platinum Edge.
I closed by CBA Platinum cards when they devalued their Award points for Frequent flyer program transfer and charged annual fee.

I hate paying annual fee out of principle. But weigh the benefits when it comes to paying them.

I've read a lot of points management experts/analyst on how to spend your points and most of them value Amex issued Amex a lot...

I love to travel a lot for leisure especially international doing the backpacking experience (4 weeks annual leave bounded).

When I refer to Amex issued Amex, I refer to Membership Rewards Ascent/Ascent Premium which comes with their charge cards, gold or platinum credit cards (exclude David Jones). This excludes the co-branded cards as well e.g. Qantas and Velocity.

Advantages on Amex issued Amex:
1. Membership Reward (MR) points are worth a lot more than bank issued Amex especially when you do conversion to Frequent Flyer programs/hotel programs. Points expert value them at least 1c per 1 MR.
2. Flexibility on transferring the points to frequent flyer programs (Emirates, Etihad, Singapore Airlines, Malaysia Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia, Air NZ, Thai Airways) /hotel programs (HHonors, Starwood Preferred Guest, Jumeirah) of your choice. I use the MR points to convert to either Velocity or MH Enrich depending on promo transfer which comes up at least once a year for them about 15% bonus miles extra. Conversions are usually 1 MR to 1 FF. Hotels vary a little bit such as Starwood Preferred Guest (SPG is a really good hotel program especially the conversion of their hotel points to other FF programs such as AAdvantage, Dividend Miles etc.).
3. Amex customer service is far superior to banks here. They go the extra mile to help you sort out your issues especially card replacement, stuck in a foreign country, doctor speaks your language etc. Unfortunately, there are unsatisfied experiences but I have not received so far.
4. Amex run promos/competitions to boost MR points is really fun to participate.
5. Free Virgin Australia domestic flights on the platinum credit cards (Edge, Reserve) are worth the annual fee especially the flight price outweighs the annual fee charged.
6. Amex card replacement is super committed. They come visit you personally if they have to in any part of the world to give you the replacement.
7. The tiered MR points earn structure works depending on your spending habits.

Disadvantages on Amex issued Amex:
1. Travel insurance cover (gold/platinum cards) is not unlimited medical cover compared to bank issue cards. When it comes to medical needs, it's better not to put a limit on it. Go buy a separate travel insurance e.g. Travel Insurance Direct or anyone else.
2. 0.5 MR points earn on government charges, insurance (except Amex issued insurance), utilities, telecommunications.
3. Australia charges one of the highest annual fee in comparison to Amex US (compare Platinum Charge)
4. To get annual fee waiver is a little hard even with desire to cancel the card. They rather you cancel the card than give you a fee waiver. If the lucky fairy visits, good on you.
5. They have discontinued using MR points to redeem for goods e.g. electronic things. That's ok, as it is a poor form of redemption to get good value out of them.
6. They still don't have a no foreign currency conversion fee card. I have personally lobbied to Amex to introduce such a feature especially for premium card holders...
7. Limit on maximum points earn for Platinum Charge and Reserve cards (tiered structure), then reduce to 1 MR to $1 on purchases.
8. Qantas points conversion requires you to register your QF card number which gets sweeped monthly. You lose the MR benefits e.g. promo points earn.

Advantages on Bank issued Amex:
1. Travel insurance varies for different banks but there are unlimited cover.
2. Points are earned at their maximum usually about 3 points per dollar but you're at the mercy of the banks conversion rate to frequent flyer programs which can change over time if they decide to devalue their points. 3 points can give you about 1.5 miles (e.g. Westpac Altitude points)
3. You can use the points to redeem for goods e.g. electronics (still it's a poor value redemption). Consider gift cards option instead.

Disadvantages on Bank issued Amex:
1. Frequent flyer programs points transferred are limited to a few around.
2. Hotel programs are non-existent for points transfer as far as I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong)
3. They come with Visa/Mastercard which has poor points earn. There are standalone Visa/Mastercard which has better points earn e.g. Citibank Visa Signature, Bankwest QF Platinum.
4. Limits apply on number of points earn per year e.g. CBA cards, Westpac cards
5. No ongoing promo/hardly ever for extra points earn for existing customers.
6. Annual fees on cards are also quite high for premium cards.
7. Banks customer service is not global enough unlike Amex (searching for doctor that don't speak your language kind of commitment)
8. Card replacement probably wait till you get back to Australia to get it.

Here are my 2 cents. There may be more to advantages/disadvantages. Hence, I value my Amex issued Amex.

 

[mitwg]

I've never really viewed bank issued AMEX cards as being AMEX cards. To me, they are just an extension of a primary Visa or a Mastercard (this is usually the case, although not always) with the AMEX being a different 'option' to pay and perhaps with a better points earn.

Others have done a great job explaining the differences, however to comment further my logic above, the real issue I found is that the bank issued AMEX cards do not really align with AMEX benefits. For example as a AMEX Platinum card holder, I would expect access to AMEX's fine hotels and resorts program or their invitation only events (this is more of a gimmick but lets include this for the purpose of evaluation) or ability to guarantee table reservations at their partner restaurants. Global support is another biggy.

However having a look at a premium offering like WBC's Altitude black for example, even though the card is a black AMEX, the benefits offered mirror those of a World Mastercard because the main Altitude card is a Mastercard. Thus even though you may have a card that says AMEX, the point program structure and benefits is really Mastercard after all. The same goes for CBA's card offerings and many other banks too.

Its not that I have anything against Mastercard or Visa but generally speaking, as far as premium benefits are concerned, they aren't even in the same league as AMEX atm.

 

[sampson]

I had this dilemma at one point when I had CBA Platinum cards (free when I used to work there) and Amex Platinum Edge.
I closed by CBA Platinum cards when they devalued their Award points for Frequent flyer program transfer and charged annual fee.

I hate paying annual fee out of principle. But weigh the benefits when it comes to paying them.

I've read a lot of points management experts/analyst on how to spend your points and most of them value Amex issued Amex a lot...

I love to travel a lot for leisure especially international doing the backpacking experience (4 weeks annual leave bounded).

When I refer to Amex issued Amex, I refer to Membership Rewards Ascent/Ascent Premium which comes with their charge cards, gold or platinum credit cards (exclude David Jones). This excludes the co-branded cards as well e.g. Qantas and Velocity.

Advantages on Amex issued Amex:
1. Membership Reward (MR) points are worth a lot more than bank issued Amex especially when you do conversion to Frequent Flyer programs/hotel programs. Points expert value them at least 1c per 1 MR.
2. Flexibility on transferring the points to frequent flyer programs (Emirates, Etihad, Singapore Airlines, Malaysia Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia, Air NZ, Thai Airways) /hotel programs (HHonors, Starwood Preferred Guest, Jumeirah) of your choice. I use the MR points to convert to either Velocity or MH Enrich depending on promo transfer which comes up at least once a year for them about 15% bonus miles extra. Conversions are usually 1 MR to 1 FF. Hotels vary a little bit such as Starwood Preferred Guest (SPG is a really good hotel program especially the conversion of their hotel points to other FF programs such as AAdvantage, Dividend Miles etc.).
3. Amex customer service is far superior to banks here. They go the extra mile to help you sort out your issues especially card replacement, stuck in a foreign country, doctor speaks your language etc. Unfortunately, there are unsatisfied experiences but I have not received so far.
4. Amex run promos/competitions to boost MR points is really fun to participate.
5. Free Virgin Australia domestic flights on the platinum credit cards (Edge, Reserve) are worth the annual fee especially the flight price outweighs the annual fee charged.
6. Amex card replacement is super committed. They come visit you personally if they have to in any part of the world to give you the replacement.
7. The tiered MR points earn structure works depending on your spending habits.

Disadvantages on Amex issued Amex:
1. Travel insurance cover (gold/platinum cards) is not unlimited medical cover compared to bank issue cards. When it comes to medical needs, it's better not to put a limit on it. Go buy a separate travel insurance e.g. Travel Insurance Direct or anyone else.
2. 0.5 MR points earn on government charges, insurance (except Amex issued insurance), utilities, telecommunications.
3. Australia charges one of the highest annual fee in comparison to Amex US (compare Platinum Charge)
4. To get annual fee waiver is a little hard even with desire to cancel the card. They rather you cancel the card than give you a fee waiver. If the lucky fairy visits, good on you.
5. They have discontinued using MR points to redeem for goods e.g. electronic things. That's ok, as it is a poor form of redemption to get good value out of them.
6. They still don't have a no foreign currency conversion fee card. I have personally lobbied to Amex to introduce such a feature especially for premium card holders...
7. Limit on maximum points earn for Platinum Charge and Reserve cards (tiered structure), then reduce to 1 MR to $1 on purchases.
8. Qantas points conversion requires you to register your QF card number which gets sweeped monthly. You lose the MR benefits e.g. promo points earn.

Advantages on Bank issued Amex:
1. Travel insurance varies for different banks but there are unlimited cover.
2. Points are earned at their maximum usually about 3 points per dollar but you're at the mercy of the banks conversion rate to frequent flyer programs which can change over time if they decide to devalue their points. 3 points can give you about 1.5 miles (e.g. Westpac Altitude points)
3. You can use the points to redeem for goods e.g. electronics (still it's a poor value redemption). Consider gift cards option instead.

Disadvantages on Bank issued Amex:
1. Frequent flyer programs points transferred are limited to a few around.
2. Hotel programs are non-existent for points transfer as far as I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong)
3. They come with Visa/Mastercard which has poor points earn. There are standalone Visa/Mastercard which has better points earn e.g. Citibank Visa Signature, Bankwest QF Platinum.
4. Limits apply on number of points earn per year e.g. CBA cards, Westpac cards
5. No ongoing promo/hardly ever for extra points earn for existing customers.
6. Annual fees on cards are also quite high for premium cards.
7. Banks customer service is not global enough unlike Amex (searching for doctor that don't speak your language kind of commitment)
8. Card replacement probably wait till you get back to Australia to get it.

Here are my 2 cents. There may be more to advantages/disadvantages. Hence, I value my Amex issued Amex.

Great response!!!!

(I get TID annual traveller mainly because they paid up for major medicals 'no questions asked', while Amex wants 'proof' as you're on the operating table. lol.

 

[cmon0005]

I have a AMEX issued Charge card, and a Bank issued Visa/AMEX.

I definitely like the AMEX issued card, their website for cardholders is great, customer service fast and fantastic as well as the personalised offers are often great value.