Bankwest Transaction account [General Discussion]

[burmans]

Nutcase, would you mind quoting which clause in the T&Cs has been breached?

Despite his self belief in his importance, it doesn't matter which clause of the T&C's the Nutcase amongst us thinks has been breached, it matters what Bankwest thinks, and they have not quoted any such clause in their closure letters. They have quoted a right to close the account which they have done, they haven't quoted any breach of the account because they don't need to, they can (and have) closed an account for any reason they want to.

 

[Kangol]

Banks just don't close customer accounts because they choose to. Its due to misconduct on behalf of the customer usually involving some kind of fraud. A Bank closing your account for misconduct is quite a big deal and puts you in the company of people that the Bank wants nothing to do with.

The banks T's and C's were breached which is the trigger. Thats how they work.

In the last few pages, no one has posted any evidence.

This is what BW have stated as the reason for closure, clause 23:
http://www.bankwest.com.au/library/pdf/PDS_20040121-155909.pdf

23.
Closing the account
23.1
We may close the account for any reason at any time.
We will notify you in writing should we do so. You
may contact us at any time to close the account.



No mention of breaching T&Cs, misconduct, or anything else.

Respectfully, this evidence disproves all of your beliefs, Nutcase.

 

[NoName]

Everyone should take a deep breath.

Nutcase, would you mind quoting which clause in the T&Cs has been breached?

This will be gooooooood! LOL

 

[EestiTiger]

It sure is quiet in here since BW shut almost everyone's account(s).

Be careful what you wish for!

 

[TomVexille]

"You will now argue that the points were all legit and you were doing the right thing and then use this emoticon "

Ah yes, true to form.

Do let us know how you get on with your legal jihad. I cant wait to see how that shakes out.

Bahahahaha. What legal jihad?? Chasing the wrong nut there my friend

Some people did not manipulate their accounts for multiple cards of use macros. However I suspect that BW decided that they were not a profitable customer and closed the accounts in line with their terms and conditions. I suspect accounts would have been closed much earlier if the Terms had actually been breached.

Personally I'm content with my time as one of their customers, with a full expectation that this product would cease to be useful to me at some point.

As SponsorSFC said, why would one use this as a day to day card? It's an average product at best.

Banks just don't close customer accounts because they choose to. Its due to misconduct on behalf of the customer usually involving some kind of fraud. A Bank closing your account for misconduct is quite a big deal and puts you in the company of people that the Bank wants nothing to do with.

Why would they shut down a profitable product? They can make money off the card and the mortgage just not off the transaction account with a million $0.01 transactions going through it.

So if a bank want's nothing to do with you, but will keep you as a customer because you're profitable?

Which one is it? You were pretty clear in saying that a person whose account is closed for "misconduct" (your words, not BW's) is a person that a bank wants nothing to do with, but yet BW keep those people as customers.

 

[Dons83]

Points were earned within the rules. Bankwest realised the rules they created were advantageous to us and unprofitable for them. Closing the accounts was their escape clause.

Fraud? Obtaining financial advantage by deception? Spare me.

 

[JohnK]

Fraud? Obtaining financial advantage by deception? Spare me.

I stay out of this debate as it doesn't affect me one way or the other. But something is not quite right in my mind.

Multiple accounts, ordering multiple cards for the one account when one of the cards should have been cancelled but continued to be used is legitimate use of the product? Changing account type and getting another new card for the account and continuing to use the old cards is also legitimate?

Not fraud or deception? The definitions of these words must have changed.

 

[Dons83]

I stay out of this debate as it doesn't affect me one way or the other. But something is not quite right in my mind.

Multiple accounts, ordering multiple cards for the one account when one of the cards should have been cancelled but continued to be used is legitimate use of the product? Changing account type and getting another new card for the account and continuing to use the old cards is also legitimate?

Not fraud or deception? The definitions of these words must have changed.

Back to the same old question - which terms and conditions have been broken? There was nothing in the rules expressly prohibiting this sort of behaviour, and when it was discovered, their only recourse was to fall back on their ability to close accounts for no reason. One would imagine someone will have updated the terms and conditions they send out to new customers, as per legal advice they would have received.

 

[JohnK]

Back to the same old question - which terms and conditions have been broken? There was nothing in the rules expressly prohibiting this sort of behaviour, and when it was discovered, their only recourse was to fall back on their ability to close accounts for no reason. One would imagine someone will have updated the terms and conditions they send out to new customers, as per legal advice they would have received.

When you go into the branch to get a new card on the account and they issue you a new card and ask you to cancel the old card and you continue to use both cards and then you manage to get more cards on same account and continue using them. Not deception?

The instructions on how to achieve that result are plastered all over this thread by multiple posters. They have been involved in fraudulent activity when they've been asked to cancel old card and continued to use that card even though Bankwest systems were not able to detect that an old card has been used.

You don't see it the same way? Up to you.

 

[NoName]

Don't assume people were always told to cancel the old card. That's not true at all.

 

[Dons83]

My multiple card solution was a lot more low Tech (and below the radar). Bank account for my brother, sister, mum, dad. Handballed 2 grand between each to avoid the annual fee, and I even paid all the family telstra bills. It may have breached the spirit of the product, but at no stage did it breach any conditions.

 

[burmans]

But something is not quite right in my mind.

Hah, can disagree with this statement but not sure why you want to publicise it.

At the end of the day, legal decisions are based on fact, not whether you or anyone else "thinks" this is wrong. Legally the only question can be whether they T&Cs have been breached, and as yet BankWest have yet to publically accuse anyone of that.

 

[Dons83]

Also JohnK I will apologise in advance for potentially flying alongside you in J class and drinking your beers in the lounge. I guess with these extra points, plebs like me can use these facilities too.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Also JohnK I will apologise in advance for potentially flying alongside you in J class and drinking your beers in the lounge. I guess with these extra points, plebs like me can use these facilities too.

JohnK thinks Y awards are more valuable.

And besides that JohnK: a good chunk of us NEVER operated multiple cards but the result was the same

 

[JohnK]

Also JohnK I will apologise in advance for potentially flying alongside you in J class and drinking your beers in the lounge. I guess with these extra points, plebs like me can use these facilities too.

Enjoy. I don't begrudge you anything.

P.S. I fly mainly economy and enjoy doing so. Another 6 flights in the next 3 days.

 

[cxthomps]

For the record I spoke with Bankwest customer relations about multiple accounts, multiple cards per account, all used for 50 1c transactions over a long time and they confirmed that nothing fraudulent had occurred (in their opinion). They stated that they had received a complaint from Telstra that led them to search for accounts with multiple low value transactions per day and close them. FWIW I asked if I could keep my account if I stopped the above. They agreed and told me this meant, for example, no more than one transaction per week for a monthly bill.

C.

 

[Radio8tiv]

All over now, got the letters yesterday for the last couple of accounts I had going still, will be raising my glass of champagne to BankWest when I fly on my 280k award next year.

 

[New Chump]

Received my letter today, too.

Was late to this party, but thumbs up to BankWest. Great account (while it lasted).

And thanks to the contributors in this thread who taught me how to use iMacros!

NC

 

[tristanium]

I had my letter about a month back, and my wife's account was closed a couple of weeks before that (in the first round).
I checked her Qantas accnt this week, and she has received a parting gift of a lot of points - we didn't make any transactions on that closed account.
Anyone else had extra points credited as a result of the closure? I am hoping my account gets this little bonus too one month after account closure!

 

[serfty]

For the record I spoke with Bankwest customer relations about multiple accounts, multiple cards per account, all used for 50 1c transactions over a long time and they confirmed that nothing fraudulent had occurred (in their opinion). They stated that they had received a complaint from Telstra that led them to search for accounts with multiple low value transactions per day and close them. ...

Hmmm ... a post from earlier this year:

... The problem for the biller is that theres a cost to process which is at least $0.10 depending on how they calculate it. The gateway has a click fee and so does the bank. If you're doing $0.01 transactions then its a giant red flag. You'll also throw out their average transaction amount and lifting their transactions which is a red flag for them, the bank and the gateway. Its got "risk" written all over it. Theres also an issue with Chargebacks for both sides. If you ever had to dispute the bill with BWA, how would you do it? ...

Paying bills with 1¢ increments in such a manner would likely benefit QFF; similar with BankWest- so neither of those entities would be looking to shut such activity down based on that premise.

That leaves the Billers - I am thinking this activity may have a perverse aspect in that it could distort KPI's and other statistics in such a manner to be beneficial for certain managers or departments such that they are not interested in shutting it down.

Looks like the KPIs' have been done and dusted.