Bankwest Transaction account [General Discussion]

[serfty]

He chose his handle! I'm not disparaging, just agreeing.

As for accurate, as in if you predict the stock market will fall 500 times and get it right once, it's accurate?

I suggest you go back and look at posts external to this and related threads.

 

[kamchatsky]

I only read this thread recently. I cannot believe that I have missed such point earning opportunity. However I have to say that earning points on 1 cent transaction is probably too much for me .... It is easier for me to earn those points via credit card signups.

 

[Dr Ralph]

I only read this thread recently. I cannot believe that I have missed such point earning opportunity. However I have to say that earning points on 1 cent transaction is probably too much for me .... It is easier for me to earn those points via credit card signups.

I agree.

The risk of doing something 'wrong' here and having your account closed down seems too great for me.

The reality was that 'gaming' the system was specifically against the terms of the agreement.

 

[kpc]

Live by the sword, die by the sword....

I agree.

The risk of doing something 'wrong' here and having your account closed down seems to great for me.

 

[Radio8tiv]

I agree.

The risk of doing something 'wrong' here and having your account closed down seems to great for me.

Some could argue that a dozen credit card applications per annum and closing said account immediately after receiving the bonus points could also be 'wrong' yes it's within the T&Cs but it isn't 'normal' and what the financial institution was hoping for.

 

[bam71]

Have just noticed this morning BW have deducted the points they continually gave me after closing the account months ago! Only 10K so I'm not perturbed .....

 

[Nutcase]

Nope doesn't explain anything.

1) The breach of the T's and C's of the BWA account.
Please supply your reference clause for the breach?
BW never referenced any breach of the T&C's in the closure letters.

2) Same as above.

This has been explained ad nauseam.

Your issue is with BWA and QF Loyalty. I don't make the rules, I am simply explaining them to you in the most concise way that I can. Neither organisation has any obligation to have anyone as a customer that they don't want. They don't need to explain the position that they take.

Perhaps its worth speaking with BWA and QF Loyalty about your concerns?

 

[Nutcase]

Actually, the member nutcase has been very helpful and accurate with their posts over time and is generally well worth taking notice of.

Just because you do not like their message is not a reason to disparage another member; disagree by all means, but not disparage.

Thank you Serfty. Appreciate your post. I have reported the others to the mods as abusive. Perhaps the mods will deal with them the same way that BWA and QF Loyalty did?

Its disappointing that mature travellers on this board become petulant when challenged gently and respectfully about an issue. I had warned about this outcome months ago and was mocked and ganged up on by the same members who have done it again which is why I don't post here very much any more.

I have explained numerous times why Banks close accounts and have every right to do so. Banks choose who their customers are and if they decide that they don't want you then theres not much you can do about it. The same goes for QF Loyalty. They have every right to claw back points and even revoke your status and your membership should they choose to. Many posters here don't seem to understand that. They are still defending their macro's and $0.01 payments despite having their accounts closed and points clawed back. I have witnessed toddlers having similar reactions to having toys removed.

As I stated earlier - The BWA product manager can easily pull the data on the few thousand of these accounts that are in the market. By a simple Excel sort the 10 or 20 outliers are going to stand out like the proverbial. When you have (say) 20 accounts doing 90% of the transactions on a product and you are a product manager in a Bank then you have a big problem and must act. This is all thats happened here.

QF make a seperate call on how to handle the situation and their customers.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Some could argue that a dozen credit card applications per annum and closing said account immediately after receiving the bonus points could also be 'wrong' yes it's within the T&Cs but it isn't 'normal' and what the financial institution was hoping for.

Happy for you to indicate exactly where in any of the credit card applications I have completed this is considered against the terms of the agreement.

If you can't do so there can be no suggestion that the activity is 'wrong'.

I have no interest in what the financial institution was 'hoping for'. And this is utterly irrelevant. What's in the contract governs everything about my relationship.

 

[Nutcase]

Happy for you to indicate exactly where in any of the credit card applications I have completed this is considered against the terms or even against the spirit of the agreement..

If you can't do so there can be no suggestion that the activity is 'wrong'.

I have no interest in what the financial institution was 'hoping for'. And this is utterly irrelevant. What's in the contract governs everything about my relationship.

Completely correct.

And in that contract the Bank can terminate their relationship with you whenever they want just like you can with them.

The notion that you are of value to the Bank when you don't revolve a balance and churn cards and products is folly.

 

[Dr Ralph]

There's likely some generic 'abuse' clause similar to the BW Ts & Cs which is what those here are pointing towards. Again, a fairly weak argument.

It's not OK to say there is 'likely some generic abuse clause'. Point to it specifically or it's not part of the contract.

Again "Happy for you to indicate exactly where in any of the credit card applications I have completed this is considered against the terms."

If you can't do so there is no basis for challenging credit card churning.

Every credit contract I enter into is in written form therefore the parol evidence rule applies. If its not in the written contract then its not part of the agreement. There is no 'spirit' of an agreement in operation.

As this is now OT I wont comment further, other than to state clearly that credit card churning is not illegal or immoral in any way. I sleep very peacefully at night taking points from banks.

 

[Nutcase]

Understand your point of view. Agree it would be extremely simple to identify outliers in their data, this is what puzzles me the most though.

If the product manager had an issue with it, why didn't they mitigate their losses by closing accounts 2 years ago when people started the activity?

I see two options:
1) They were aware of the low-value transactions and gave their implicit approval by taking no action, or
2) They were grossly incompetent and asleep at the wheel.

I personally don't see an issue with what others have done up until their accounts were closed in September. However, I don't approve of the more recent activity of stashing accidentally credited points since the September closures. It's clearly an error on BW's behalf and as such attempts to prevent clawbacks are in a sense theft as the recipient is aware they are not entitled to them but retaining them anyway.

What difference does the time frame make? They found it. It was only a handful of customers and they have been exited and points clawed back.

Errors happen. People make mistakes. Perhaps the product manager wasn't on the ball? Perhaps BWA were letting it go through?

None of these things are relevant. Its like saying "I was speeding and didn't get caught so then its OK".

 

[Radio8tiv]

Happy for you to indicate exactly where in any of the credit card applications I have completed this is considered against the terms or even against the spirit of the agreement..

If you can't do so there can be no suggestion that the activity is 'wrong'.

I have no interest in what the financial institution was 'hoping for'. And this is utterly irrelevant. What's in the contract governs everything about my relationship.

I know better then to start an argument with some one of your profession, my comment was merely to be thought provoking as your comment reminded me of a quote Jesus had said "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone"

 

[NoName]

Who has had their points clawed back and QFF account closed? No one at this stage other than some blow in who was easily outed as a fake. The only points taken back have been the ones that were mistakenly given since the accounts were closed from late August.

 

[coles525]

Didn't recieve any points into qff today, but just looked at bw statement. They withdraw 2,000 or so points.

I wonder if this is the start....

 

[basso]

Some could argue that a dozen credit card applications per annum and closing said account immediately after receiving the bonus points could also be 'wrong' yes it's within the T&Cs but it isn't 'normal' and what the financial institution was hoping for.

I guess we all have a different moral compass, but I see nothing wrong with churing - I am sure banks accept that a certain amount of that will happen. Scripting 1c transactions when one would ordinarily make a single payment of a bill is a completely different stiry to me.

 

[Kangol]

Live by the sword, die by the sword....

Live by the gun, die by the gun's kids..

The next step would be, what if it were 50x $1 transactions? Or $2? $5? $10?, even $100 transactions!
What is the limit that they would allow and be considered as "normal" or "fair"?
Slippery slope..

 

[EestiTiger]

I just had a bit over 15,000 QF points clawed back from BW... Not very happy as I haven't been running any scripts in the past few months. They didn't take all my points so not sure what they are doing...

I had a closer look to try to work it out...

It appears BW have only taken the points I have earnt since September, which was when they send out the letters stating accounts were to be closed. At the time I cleaned out my account waiting for the impending closure. As it wasn't closed on the date they said it would, I shifted some cash back. I have been earning points solely on the balance of my account since then. The debit I mentioned the other day was to solely claim back these points. This appears to be what is happening now with others who over the past few months have had accounts closed yet still credited some crazy bonus points. It is just these points, since September, they are clawing back. I can live with that.

 

[coles525]

Didn't recieve any points into qff today, but just looked at bw statement. They withdraw 2,000 or so points.

I wonder if this is the start....

Just to mention: my cc spend balance.

 

[EestiTiger]

Hmmm - anyone still getting points, maybe check your QF account