Bankwest Transaction account [General Discussion]

[TripleB]

This of course ignores compound interest and the effects of inflation.

 

[ETA_2022]

... For say a SYD-LAX discount Y to J upgrade that's an effective cost of about $1356 - which is a lot cheaper than I thought that it would be.

But what's the actual $ cost of Y to J upgrade.

If that cost is greater than the cost of lost interest, then the points are better value, but if that cost is less than the cost of the lost interest, then one would be better off earning the interest and paying with a QFF points earning credit card (in an interest free period, of course) plus getting the points and status credits one would earn for the flight.

 

[TripleB]

That's really hard to nail down because you can't just use $ to upgrade.

The best you can do is compare a sale Y fare at around $1300 return to a sale J fare at about $7500 return with an effective cost of the upgrade about $3100 one way (which of course doesn't take into account the extra flexibility, availability, points and SC associated with buying a J fare - which I think are substantial).

I just put my figures and calculations up to be helpful - I was doing the maths for my own benefit was surprised at the result and thought that I would share in case it piqued someone's interest.

 

[burmans]

This of course ignores compound interest and the effects of inflation.

True but at current inflation and interest rates not really material over a couple of years.

 

[hossein_au]

Maybe I have this all wrong (probable) but here's my logic ...

Y-J upgrade is 72,000 points

At 1200 points a month it would take 60 months to earn that number of points. If you had left the money in ING you would earnt (after tax) 60x$22.60 ($1356).

Oh I see. The math is fine, I just did not see how you got there; thanks for the explanation.

 

[Kangol]

But what's the actual $ cost of Y to J upgrade.

If that cost is greater than the cost of lost interest, then the points are better value, but if that cost is less than the cost of the lost interest, then one would be better off earning the interest and paying with a QFF points earning credit card (in an interest free period, of course) plus getting the points and status credits one would earn for the flight.

That's really hard to nail down because you can't just use $ to upgrade.

The best you can do is compare a sale Y fare at around $1300 return to a sale J fare at about $7500 return with an effective cost of the upgrade about $3100 one way (which of course doesn't take into account the extra flexibility, availability, points and SC associated with buying a J fare - which I think are substantial).

I just put my figures and calculations up to be helpful - I was doing the maths for my own benefit was surprised at the result and thought that I would share in case it piqued someone's interest.

The other factor is that points upgrades are not guaranteed so if you don't get it, then the points have no value because you can't exchange them for something you want (this example only). Then there is the (lost) opportunity cost.
You can use $ to upgrade, which is the cost of cancelling and rebooking.
Maybe consider comparing the interest earned to booking an award ticket (ie "upgrade at time of booking"), but thanks anyway for doing the maths.

 

[edy4eva]

I've lurked around for a while on this thread. Here's my 2 cents (or 1): the BW offer is enticing as it encourages the use of the card at every opportunity. 5 points are not a lot but for some here, wasting 2-3 hours a day to get a couple thousand points sounded like a great deal. Let me just say 2-3 hours a day invested in other things can generate way more than few points.

Say 50 dollars for a 3-hour shift, multiply that by 7 gives 350 dollars. Compare that earning with 5k points earned in a week (ignoring the end result - closure of account/denial of service), that's a pretty sum -cash wise NOT points considering one could purchase 1k for 25AUD through AMEX (among other ways) then lobby them into QFF. Those 350 dollars could buy 5k and would still have enough cash for a return flight in Y. Not to mention having to SPEND money to earn those points. But hey, that's just one way to look at it.

Others have looked at it from the point of earning interest versus QFF points. Again that's a pretty narrow view. 10k invested in trading/stock market can generate fare more than the 1.2k points worth in cash.

Anyhow, my view is that if you have the time and resources to spare to screw over this offer, then you're either loaded and don't really need the points (in which case that's pretty selfish thing to do as you could through this behaviour have BW drop the offer or impose greater restrictions), or don't have better things to do (I feel with you, maybe try investing some of that intelligence into something more worthwhile.)

Just my cent or 2.

 

[NoName]

I've lurked around for a while on this thread. Here's my 2 cents (or 1): the BW offer is enticing as it encourages the use of the card at every opportunity. 5 points are not a lot but for some here, wasting 2-3 hours a day to get a couple thousand points sounded like a great deal. Let me just say 2-3 hours a day invested in other things can generate way more than few points.

Say 50 dollars for a 3-hour shift, multiply that by 7 gives 350 dollars. Compare that earning with 5k points earned in a week (ignoring the end result - closure of account/denial of service), that's a pretty sum -cash wise NOT points considering one could purchase 1k for 25AUD through AMEX (among other ways) then lobby them into QFF. Those 350 dollars could buy 5k and would still have enough cash for a return flight in Y. Not to mention having to SPEND money to earn those points. But hey, that's just one way to look at it.

Others have looked at it from the point of earning interest versus QFF points. Again that's a pretty narrow view. 10k invested in trading/stock market can generate fare more than the 1.2k points worth in cash.

Anyhow, my view is that if you have the time and resources to spare to screw over this offer, then you're either loaded and don't really need the points (in which case that's pretty selfish thing to do as you could through this behaviour have BW drop the offer or impose greater restrictions), or don't have better things to do (I feel with you, maybe try investing some of that intelligence into something more worthwhile.)

Just my cent or 2.

Thats all very well and good but it doesn't take anywhere near "2-3 hrs per day". More like 15min to do 250 transactions if semi-automated or a fraction of a second to click a button if fully automated. What's the opportunity cost of that?

 

[benjy]

I've lurked around for a while on this thread. Here's my 2 cents (or 1): the BW offer is enticing as it encourages the use of the card at every opportunity. 5 points are not a lot but for some here, wasting 2-3 hours a day to get a couple thousand points sounded like a great deal. Let me just say 2-3 hours a day invested in other things can generate way more than few points.

Say 50 dollars for a 3-hour shift, multiply that by 7 gives 350 dollars. Compare that earning with 5k points earned in a week (ignoring the end result - closure of account/denial of service), that's a pretty sum -cash wise NOT points considering one could purchase 1k for 25AUD through AMEX (among other ways) then lobby them into QFF. Those 350 dollars could buy 5k and would still have enough cash for a return flight in Y. Not to mention having to SPEND money to earn those points. But hey, that's just one way to look at it.

Others have looked at it from the point of earning interest versus QFF points. Again that's a pretty narrow view. 10k invested in trading/stock market can generate fare more than the 1.2k points worth in cash.

Anyhow, my view is that if you have the time and resources to spare to screw over this offer, then you're either loaded and don't really need the points (in which case that's pretty selfish thing to do as you could through this behaviour have BW drop the offer or impose greater restrictions), or don't have better things to do (I feel with you, maybe try investing some of that intelligence into something more worthwhile.)

Just my cent or 2.

Thats all very well and good but it doesn't take anywhere near "2-3 hrs per day". More like 15min to do 250 transactions if semi-automated or a fraction of a second to click a button if fully automated. What's the opportunity cost of that?

Yeah, it takes nowhere near 3hrs for me, more like 15mins. I type my Optus payments in manually (I excellent muscle memory) and most times do it during work... in essence, the time it takes me to process my payments costs me nothing. This month I'm on my way to earning 7,500+ points as I've done my 50 payments every day so far

 

[TripleB]

I've lurked around for a while on this thread. Here's my 2 cents (or 1): the BW offer is enticing as it encourages the use of the card at every opportunity. 5 points are not a lot but for some here, wasting 2-3 hours a day to get a couple thousand points sounded like a great deal. Let me just say 2-3 hours a day invested in other things can generate way more than few points.

Say 50 dollars for a 3-hour shift, multiply that by 7 gives 350 dollars. Compare that earning with 5k points earned in a week (ignoring the end result - closure of account/denial of service), that's a pretty sum -cash wise NOT points considering one could purchase 1k for 25AUD through AMEX (among other ways) then lobby them into QFF. Those 350 dollars could buy 5k and would still have enough cash for a return flight in Y. Not to mention having to SPEND money to earn those points. But hey, that's just one way to look at it.

Others have looked at it from the point of earning interest versus QFF points. Again that's a pretty narrow view. 10k invested in trading/stock market can generate fare more than the 1.2k points worth in cash.

Anyhow, my view is that if you have the time and resources to spare to screw over this offer, then you're either loaded and don't really need the points (in which case that's pretty selfish thing to do as you could through this behaviour have BW drop the offer or impose greater restrictions), or don't have better things to do (I feel with you, maybe try investing some of that intelligence into something more worthwhile.)

Just my cent or 2.

I think that you might have come to the wrong place if you don't like people discussing how to get the most out of the terms and conditions or the pros and cons of various options.

 

[Rick93]

Ok, it seems like there are almost no others who have been 'terminated' like I have.

In summary, BW told me, I was closed down BECAUSE of small split payments ( as low as one cent ), " ... to pay for goods that are normally paid for in one transaction".

So, if the continued paying of utility bills by ( as low as ) split payments of one cent ( via the online methods ), AND, there have been no account closures for the people using that method ... what can be considered there ?

That 50 split transactions a day is OK, and that even if such split payments ARE as low as one cent each .... as long as the account holder doesn't go over 50 per day !!

A BW rep told me over the phone, that there WERE others being examined ( though nobody here has admitted to also being closed down ? )

What do others here feel about, if I were to advise the FOS about the iMacro methods of small split payments ?

Do you think it will lead to a loss of the method for you all ???

 

[N860CR]

Personally... I'd let this one slide and open a new account in your mother/father/sister/brothers name and start again. The less attention that this receives (especially through an expensive FOS process) the better

 

[edy4eva]

I think that you might have come to the wrong place if you don't like people discussing how to get the most out of the terms and conditions or the pros and cons of various options.

Who said anything about the discussion not being entertaining? I just looked at two extremes.

As for getting the most out of T&C, well that's something that everyone does including myself. I got banned -for life! by a company for doing transactions through their system which was netting me almost 15k QFF a month from just 5 transactions. And I am taking them to court through a US based lawyer friend (on a pro-bono basis otherwise I don't have the resources for that). I got a second person joining the case as well. Not seeking damages, simply reversal of the ban.

 

[burmans]

What do others here feel about, if I were to advise the FOS about the iMacro methods of small split payments ?

Do you think it will lead to a loss of the method for you all ???

Really I'm struggling to see the point of what you are trying to do here. The T&C's gave Bankwest the right to close your account down, it didn't require them to give a reason (am frankly unsure why they did) so I dont see how any argument with FOS about the reason for closure is going to hold much merit.

The T&C's dont require them to be fair in making this decision so to me the fact that others may be making multiple payments is irrelevant. The circumstances almost certainly don't match yours, youve boasted about how you wer taking it to the limit and Bankwest have decided they don't want you as a customer.

I frankly think the method used by others to make their payments is irrelevant to the FOS decision and have had a fair bit of involvement with FOS over the years and know the sort of things they take into account and what they dont!

 

[Rick93]

Well thanks for your personal impression there Burmans ...

I think I've already indicated my position.

What I am trying to achieve ? Gee, I thought it was obvious ...

What I do think will happen with involving the FOS, is that BW will be forced to 'take a look' at themselves.

If what they have done is common in the banking world, then that will come out, and I'll be advised by the FOS.

If I had no chance at all, of gaining anything from this situation - then I expected the FOS to have stated that 'up front'. They did not.

If the FOS deal with 'the banking world' all the time, and they know what is 'ok' and what is not - then I expected the FOS to state such an outlook 'up front'. They did not.

If BW fully believe, that they are 100% correct in their actions against me - and so do X number of posters here - then I wonder WHY BW have allocated a 'special case manager' to me.

If 'no means no', then why are they bothering to 'entertain' me ....

 

[Aussie_flyer]

because you are special rick93, that's why you need a special case manager

 

[NoName]

With all due respect Rick, you should just move on. You're wasting far too much time worrying about something that is not going to go your way anyway. Move on. Either to the next offer or do what others have suggested and get family members to open BW accounts for you and start again.

 

[Rick93]

Thanks for the advice ...

... and what will people say, when I report success ?

I'll keep you all posted.

In some of my work-related activities, I advise others to work on their 'personal resilience', when the system rejects them.

I'll do the same ...

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Thanks for the advice ...

... and what will people say, when I report success ?

Most people wont care actually.

 

[N860CR]

Most people wont care actually.

Actually, no. This website is all about maximizing frequent flyer programs so I would say people will care.

I think everyone needs to settle down a little and back off a bit. Rick is taking advantage of a bankwest offer and has done quite well. From what I remember... The amex promo of the same style became an enormous thread at the time.

That said, the FOS won't ever tell you that you don't have a good case etc etc. They follow their slow and painful process and place all the onus on you to prove something beyond a doubt.

My honest opinion in this case is that going down the FOS path won't help a lot. Take whatever bankwest offer now and open another account.