Boarding refusal in Rome by Qantas (BA as agent)

[Michael Hoy]

At Rome airport after our European holiday, flight booked on FF points after a 10 year effort to acquire them, my wife was refused boarding as the name on her ticket did not match that on her passport.

Her name on the ticket was Mrs Michael Hoy, yet her passport said G___ M___ Hoy. Qantas and BA had carried her as G___ M___ Hoy out of Australia to Europe, so clearly she was the same person, and my wife.

I had made the error when booking, putting my name in as Passenger 2 when the web page moved down, I recall.

As we were on FF points, we were offered a 10 day delay in Rome till a FF flight came up for G____. Or G____ could fly the next day for $2000 one-way fare, with 18 hour stopover in HK. With my flight looming, G___ told me to leave her, keeping my FF flight, and she was forced to leave the next day, and come a very indirect and slow way.

I have reviewed the ticket, the email with the ticket and the conditions of carriage and cannot find any specification that the names must match. It does state this on the booking site. However the ticket did not arrive until 2 or 3 months after I had used the booking site. The email that came with the ticket did not ask me to check that her ticket name was the same as her passport name.

As Qantas are happy for people to do their own bookings online, shouldn't there be some better mechanism for the ticket to be checked by the computer making the booking (ie Passenger 1 not having the same name as Passenger 2?). And I do not believe that off-loading was correct. I believe the only obligation that Qantas have, in relation to Australia, is to ensure the passenger has a valid passport, which she did. Sure, ticket equal passport helps the desk staff.

I have written to Qantas some 3 weeks ago, but had no reply. I was interested in any feedback on similar experiences, and redress achieved. I am intending to take this as far as I can, for my wife. She is very upset at this treatment.

Cheers

Michael

 

[Dave Noble]

The agent in Rome was correct in refusing permission to board given that the name of the passenger did not match that of the passport. That an agent elsewhere had let it slip through before doesn't really matter

In the T&Cs Book - Flights - Conditions of Carriage - Full

6. Tickets

6.1 Ticket Essential
Your Ticket is the main evidence of Our contract with You, so even though You have a reservation for a flight, You may not board that flight without first obtaining a boarding pass by either:

presenting at check-in a valid and intact Ticket issued in Your name and containing the Flight Coupons for that flight, all other unused Flight Coupons (including the Passenger Coupon) in that Ticket and any photo or other identification requested, or
where a valid Electronic Ticket has been issued in Your name, checking-in and presenting photo identification (passport or Australian driving licence).

does indocate that you need the ticket in the passenger's name

Dave

 

[ANstar]

In the end it is your responsibility to make sure the ticket matches your passport. Could it have been changed before you flew?

As for BA in Rome, how were they to know that you hadnt flown on "the incorrect named ticket" (Or say your son with the same name??) and now you are trying to get your wife to fly on that ticket?

BA Rome would have probably assumed that MRS wouldnt have been able to travel on an wrong ticket and thus assume that someone else with that name did fly.

 

[serfty]

... It does state this on the booking site. However the ticket did not arrive until 2 or 3 months after I had used the booking site. The email that came with the ticket did not ask me to check that her ticket name was the same as her passport name. ...

You still should have checked as soon as you received the ticket.

Qantas would have most likely been very amenable to fixing this at that time since it would have been the first chance you had to check, especially as it was 8-14 weeks since booking.

Names are crucial with international travel - they MUST be correct.

 

[Michael Hoy]

Thanks guys, but I comment:

To Serfty: I did check the ticket on receipt, and Mrs Michael Hoy was correct. I thought it quaint, outdated, but, hey, Qantas knew my wife's name, I thought, as I have told them 100's of times. They are old-fashioned, I thought. Nowhere in the ticket or email did it ask me to check this aspect.

To ANstar: If I had been asked to check that the names matched, I certainly would have done that. I did the other 18 or so other things they exhort you to do on the email and the ticket. Names aren't important enough to list though, it seems.

To Dave: this was the first time we were travelling with this ticket, so no one had let us slip through to this point. On the conditions, I believe 6.1 is ambiguous, as it does not say "ticket name must equal passport name". It says you have to have a ticket issued in your name. DeBrett and other etiquette websites state that Mrs Michael Hoy would be a valid expression of my wife's name (with other variants as well).

So my observation is that Qantas, if they wish to get heavy, should have a better communication with their passengers on this point. The letter and the ticket do not state this. We were novice flyers, but use the internet heaps, as do most people these days.

 

[tuapekastar]

Thanks guys, but I comment:


On the conditions, I believe 6.1 is ambiguous, as it does not say "ticket name must equal passport name". It says you have to have a ticket issued in your name. DeBrett and other etiquette websites state that Mrs Michael Hoy would be a valid expression of my wife's name (with other variants as well).

Welcome to AFF Michael Hoy.

That's an interesting point you raise, which IMO at face value has some merit. I suspect though you'll have an uphill battle against Qantas regarding it, but wish you luck and would be interested in the outcome.

 

[harvyk]

Thanks guys, but I comment:

On the conditions, I believe 6.1 is ambiguous, as it does not say "ticket name must equal passport name". It says you have to have a ticket issued in your name. DeBrett and other etiquette websites state that Mrs Michael Hoy would be a valid expression of my wife's name (with other variants as well).

In day to day life, absolutely, you are welcome to use any variation of your name you like. You can even be called nicknames which hold no corrolation to your actual name. But when doing something official, officals don't like nicknames, or any other name than your actual legal name.

Perfect example, my grandfather uses his middle name rather than his first for day to day life (for at least the last 50 years, not many people actually know what his real first name is). However for anything official he still has to use his real first name.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

The passenger name on the booking MUST match that of the travelling passenger and when travelling international, that passenger's passport. There is no passport holder with the name MRS MICHAEL HOY therefore the original booking made by you was incorrect.

There is no mechanism to check passengers names at QANTAS' end...you can type in MR ELVIS PRESLEY and the ticket will be issued...of course only someone with the name ELVIS PRESLEY in their passport will be able to use this ticket.

Unfortunately it was a harsh way to find this out...if this happened at the gate of a SYD-MEL flight it would have been so much easier to correct AND learn your mistake at the same time for future reference.

 

[Dave Noble]

To Dave: this was the first time we were travelling with this ticket, so no one had let us slip through to this point. On the conditions, I believe 6.1 is ambiguous, as it does not say "ticket name must equal passport name". It says you have to have a ticket issued in your name. DeBrett and other etiquette websites state that Mrs Michael Hoy would be a valid expression of my wife's name (with other variants as well).

So my observation is that Qantas, if they wish to get heavy, should have a better communication with their passengers on this point. The letter and the ticket do not state this. We were novice flyers, but use the internet heaps, as do most people these days.

You are welcome to have any name that you desire but the name given in the ID of the passenger has to match that of the booking

Dave

 

[ozbeachbabe]

As Qantas are happy for people to do their own bookings online, shouldn't there be some better mechanism for the ticket to be checked by the computer making the booking (ie Passenger 1 not having the same name as Passenger 2?).

I don't think computers are that smart - they would only want you to populate the first and last name fields in order to process the booking. In any case you could still book a wrong name that was different to the first name, so that functionality if it were in place is still not fool proof.

DeBrett and other etiquette websites state that Mrs Michael Hoy would be a valid expression of my wife's name

It possibly was right up until 9/11. As a lot of airline systems have a link to customs and immigration systems for processing the booking name must match the name in the passport exactly to process passengers into/out of that country.

I think BA could have handled the situation a lot better. I would have thought they could have done a new booking in the correct name and accepted the original ticket against the new booking correctly spelt. This is easier to do when it's a paper ticket otherwise the system will say "name on eticket does not match passenger name", however surely they have a workaround for this situation.

For them simply to look at the next availability for a redemption seat - in your case 10 days away is ridiculous and demonstrates a total lack of ability to think outside the circle and find a solution to the problem. Similarly with asking her to buy a new ticket for $2,000.00 sounds like the airline trying to take the easy way out.

It's not so much the actual problem that occurred that causes any grieveance but the way it is handled and how the airline finds a solution to the problem.

Just a couple of questions:

1. Was it a paper ticket or electronic?
2. Was it the airline saying no ie BA on behalf of QF, or Italian customs &
immigration who had the issue?
3. When you say your wife was refused boarding was this at checkin or at the boarding gate when staff do the ID check of name of passport to boarding pass?
4. When your wife flew back the next day the long way was she charged any extra?

Just to clear up a couple of points:

Qantas and BA had carried her as G___ M___ Hoy out of Australia to Europe, so clearly she was the same person, and my wife.

Did the ticket out of Australia to Europe have the correct name for your wife as per her passport? If it did it it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges.

To Dave: this was the first time we were travelling with this ticket, so no one had let us slip through to this point.

So quite possibly the same scenario may have happened earlier in the trip but Rome was the first place where your wife tried to travel on a ticket that said "Mrs Michael Hoy"?

I don't mean to give you the Spanish Inquisition but asking questions helps clarify things for other AFF members and may help them avoiding the same situation down the track.

Cheers

Oz

 

[Travel Guru]

Hi Michael, Welcome to AFF.


While I accept that we all make mistakes, the back it up with 'why shouldnt Mrs Michael Hoy' be good enough is a bit naive no matter whether this was your first overseas trip or your 50th.

I appreciate your annoyance at the seeming injustice you've been faced at the hands of Qantas, but you need to take some responsibility for making the mistake in the first place.

If the airlines allow people to travel with different names than are listed on their passport, not only does it open up the entire system to massive security risks, it also opens up the door to unscrupulous individuals who for want of a better word scalp airline tickets by booking early and then reselling at a premium when the fares go up.


Having said all that, if the airline had allowed your wife to travel over (which i'm totally clear if that is or isn't the case) with an incorrect name, they really have a duty to also bring her home, and if that means uplifting her onto the flight and dealing with the documentation issues later, so be it.

If it was a separate ticket and this was her first flight with the incorrect name, then there's nothing you can do, you have to suck it up, use it as a learning experience and realise that just as in alot of other areas, it has to be 100% accurate.

TG

 

[Dave Noble]

I think BA could have handled the situation a lot better. I would have thought they could have done a new booking in the correct name and accepted the original ticket against the new booking correctly spelt. This is easier to do when it's a paper ticket otherwise the system will say "name on eticket does not match passenger name", however surely they have a workaround for this situation.

For them simply to look at the next availability for a redemption seat - in your case 10 days away is ridiculous and demonstrates a total lack of ability to think outside the circle and find a solution to the problem. Similarly with asking her to buy a new ticket for $2,000.00 sounds like the airline trying to take the easy way out.

Name changes are not free. To change it is a cancellation and rebook and is dependant on availability. alternatively there is the option of cancelling and buying a new ticket. Why is it the check in agent's job to try and come up with imaginative solutions to someone turning up for the flight without a valid ticket?

From the OPs second post this was their first flight on this ticket and not , for example, the 5 sector of a multi sector itinerary

Dave

 

[serfty]

Name changes are not free. To change it is a cancellation and rebook and is dependant on availability. ...

I believe that if the OP had contacted Qantas immediately upon receipt of the e-ticket (albeit many weeks after booking) with information about the inaccuraces in the booking they would have corrected the name at no charge.

 

[medhead]

In day to day life, absolutely, you are welcome to use any variation of your name you like. You can even be called nicknames which hold no corrolation to your actual name. But when doing something official, officals don't like nicknames, or any other name than your actual legal name.

I think you missed the point slightly. We are not talking about a nickname here or using your middle name instead of first name. It used to be normal for a married couple to be addressed as Mr and Mrs MALE_First_name Surname, even in offical government communication. I have seen this many times for my parents. Sure this traditionally thing might have fallen out of current everyday usage. But it is correct etiquette, as mentioned, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a law somewhere that says that is a legal way to refer to a wife, given that it has been used in government communications.

Now that doesn't mean I think qantas should have done anything different. In fact, they probably did about the best thing possible in the circumstance given modern naming practices. Especially, offering to rebook an award flight. Of course, it is a shame about the delay and heart ache for the OPs wife.

But it is an interesting point regarding names and I would suggest the OP try to follow up on the legality of this naming convention in taking up the matter with Qantas. If it is legal then clearly there is a need for some changes to laws.

 

[NM]

It used to be normal for a married couple to be addressed as Mr and Mrs MALE_First_name Surname, even in offical government communication. I have seen this many times for my parents. Sure this traditionally thing might have fallen out of current everyday usage.

Its still common for things like wedding invitations ... but not for airline tickets.

 

[Dave Noble]

I believe that if the OP had contacted Qantas immediately upon receipt of the e-ticket (albeit many weeks after booking) with information about the inaccuraces in the booking they would have corrected the name at no charge.

If it had been booked in error and soon after booking had attempted to fix the issue, that is indeed a case where they *may* have agreed to fix it for free; this is not the case here though; no attempt was made to deal with the fact that the passenger did not have identification in the name of the booking and so was correctly denied boarding

 

[Travel Guru]

I think you missed the point slightly. We are not talking about a nickname here or using your middle name instead of first name. It used to be normal for a married couple to be addressed as Mr and Mrs MALE_First_name Surname, even in offical government communication. I have seen this many times for my parents. Sure this traditionally thing might have fallen out of current everyday usage. But it is correct etiquette, as mentioned, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a law somewhere that says that is a legal way to refer to a wife, given that it has been used in government communications.

Now that doesn't mean I think qantas should have done anything different. In fact, they probably did about the best thing possible in the circumstance given modern naming practices. Especially, offering to rebook an award flight. Of course, it is a shame about the delay and heart ache for the OPs wife.

But it is an interesting point regarding names and I would suggest the OP try to follow up on the legality of this naming convention in taking up the matter with Qantas. If it is legal then clearly there is a need for some changes to laws.

I'll tell you what, if the pax can go down to DMV and get them to issue them with a Drivers Licence that states 'Mrs Michael Hoy' or go to AusPost and reissue their passport as 'Mrs Michael Hoy' then they've got grounds to complain.

It really doesn't matter whether some archaic law still exists on the books that says someone can be referred to as Mrs xx_ xx_, it's still naive to think that someone could travel on any name other than what's listed on their passport, and quite frankly, it's typical of today's society where people don't want to take responsibility for their actions and clutch at any straw to try and justify why they weren't in the wrong.

TG

 

[medhead]

It really doesn't matter whether some archaic law still exists on the books that says someone can be referred to as Mrs xx_ xx_, it's still naive to think that someone could travel on any name other than what's listed on their passport, and quite frankly, it's typical of today's society where people don't want to take responsibility for their actions and clutch at any straw to try and justify why they weren't in the wrong.

TG

I gotta say I didn't get the impression that the OP was trying to avoid responsibility for their actions.

In terms of some archaic law, all I was trying to say is that if such a law exists then Mrs xx_ xx_ is the person's legal name and they are perfectly entitled to use that name. I agree that it is naive to think that an airline will allow you to travel on that other name, but, if legal, the airline is going to have to respond to the situation. I did try to express this by saying that the law would need to be changed.

But there is a big, bold IF in there and the issue isn't important enough to me to bother checking the if. But I wish the OP luck.

Edit: in terms of archaic laws, I'm reminded of the urban myth regarding prank week of sydney Unis. Apparently, they found a law that allowed right of way to drive a mob of sheep across Sydney Harbour Bridge. So they arranged a mob and crossed the bridge during peak hour Monday morning.

 

[bkkrop]

So my observation is that Qantas, if they wish to get heavy, should have a better communication with their passengers on this point. The letter and the ticket do not state this. We were novice flyers, but use the internet heaps, as do most people these days.

Hello Michael Hoy, boy, do I feel for you, because I didn't do it once , I did it twice. My FIL name is John but as you can imagine, everyone called him Jack. When I took him away with me I continually booked him in as Jack, and it created one problem after another. Everytime it happened, it was last minute stuff, like at an airport. I was always able to get him on the flight ex Melbourne, but the airline would say, "you will have trouble on the next legs, so change it as soon as you arrive". The long and short of it is, the tickets had to be changed, Yes the airline charged like wounded bulls, It is your fault not the airline, spin it how you like, I did, but in the end, the rules state what they state. As I said , I feel for you, I can still see us at Tulla, old Jack and his wife, the rare time when being known, worked for me. Move on mate, regards bkkrop

 

[JohnK]

I feel sorry for you and your wife Michael but ultimately it is your responsibility that the names are correct. Still I am sure that BA (or Qantas) could have handled the situation much better in Rome. As you had an award ticket they should have been able to issue an new ticket in the new name and charged a change fee or whatever it requires. To leave someone stranded or ask for ridiculous one-way airfares is not good customer service and it is something I would expect from a LCC not a full service carrier.

One of my biggest fears when booking tickets is to double check and triple check that I have booked the right flights and that I have entered my name correctly.