Can only change booking to equal or higher fare?

[MSanchez]

I booked a multi-city trip to the US with Qantas on a sale fare (O Class), but now need to change the dates. The flights for the new dates are currently $300 cheaper than the fare I booked.

When I tried to change my flights (expecting to pay the change fee of $200), I was told I could only change to flights with a fare of equal or higher value. To get the dates I had to change to, I would need to go up a fare level, and pay an additional $700 (as well as the change fee). A very helpful sales rep tried to find fares for me that were close to the fare I paid, but without success. It was either a lower fare, or a fare of at least $700 more.

Whilst I can understand Qantas not wanting to credit people when they change to a lower fare, it seems ridiculous that you can't change to a flight which is far cheaper than the one you booked, even though you're willing to pay the original fare plus a change fee. If I was just charged the change fee, Qantas would be getting $500 more from me than what they're willing to sell that seat for. I'd also free up a seat on my original flight, which is obviously fuller given the higher price.

In any event, it's not in Qantas' terms and conditions that you can only change to a fare of equal or higher value (it's a term for cancelling, but not for changing) - all the T&C say is that you have to pay the booking fee, service fee (if applicable) and any fare difference. When I told this to a Qantas call centre person, they trawled through the website themselves and agreed there was no such condition, but their system didn't let me change to a flight with a lower fare.

Has anyone else had a similar experience and were you able to change without paying for a fare of much higher value (when cheaper fares are available for the same flight)? I've called Qantas several times, but the call centre's systems won't let them change without me paying a much higher fare. I've also written to customer care, but still haven't heard back. Is there anything else I can do?

I need to book my trip with the new dates and don't want to wait until a time when the fares go up even more. If Qantas are going to charge another $900, they have left such a sour taste in my mouth that I'm almost willing to pay $500 more to go on Delta or Virgin instead. I'm a very frequent flyer with Qantas, but this type of thing is enough to make you consider the alternatives.

What are Delta and Virgin like on the US route?

 

[samh004]

Wasn't there a Qantas price promise that should kick in for a situation like this?

Edit: I see it only works for the same day: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/price-promise/global/en


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[MSanchez]

Thanks samh004. I don't think it applies to changing flights - only if you book a flight on qantas.com and on the same day you find a cheaper fare on some other website.

 

[mannej]

Wasn't there a Qantas price promise that should kick in for a situation like this?

Edit: I see it only works for the same day: Qantas Price Promise | Best online prices guaranteed for cars, hotels, transfers and activities.


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Why Book at qantas.com | qantas.com Customer Commitment

In a nutshell - no.

The OP wants to change flights, so it doesn't apply.

 

[medhead]

Can you wait for the current sale to end. That will cause issues as the cheap fares are lower but the next up fare is much higher.


Sent from the Throne

 

[MarcB]

Are you changing or cancelling? If you have cancelled then you need to pay the same fare or higher. If you are changing, then this should not invoke those rules...unless of course the fare you bought is not available anymore and it's before departure.

If you can get provide the fare basis and the ticketing date, the full rules can be accessed via E/F.

 

[medhead]

A change also requires an equal or higher fare.


Sent from the Throne

 

[MarcB]

Actually, it appears that QF may have changed their international ticket reissue policy again. See here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/int_Tkt_Reissue_Policy260612.pdf

Now based on what the OP is saying, they are trying to do a Type 1 Reissue - ie. change of date. Now the QF policy indicates that HISTORICAL fares should be used whether before of after departure provided no change to fare construction points. So provided the same class is available, this should be just a change fee.

Or have I missed something??

 

[MelUser]

You are lucky as I know people who have had to pay many thousands to reuse a qf I class business fare when changing dates.

 

[MSanchez]

Thanks for the replies. Whatever Qantas' policy may be, it's what's in the terms and conditions at the time of booking that's important, and none of them mention changing only to equal or higher fares. I think I will have to keep arguing and see where it goes. Hopefully not as far as the Small Claims Court!

 

[serfty]

I feel for you, but the "higher" fares rules have been around for many years.

From the OP:

In any event, it's not in Qantas' terms and conditions that you can only change to a fare of equal or higher value (it's a term for cancelling, but not for changing) - all the T&C say is that you have to pay the booking fee, service fee (if applicable) and any fare difference. When I told this to a Qantas call centre person, they trawled through the website themselves and agreed there was no such condition, but their system didn't let me change to a flight with a lower fare.

That is incorrect - see.

What is you fare booking code (e.g. OLSP1)?

As far as the most non refundable red e-deal fares go, originally they were not changeable at all - don't travel on the flight and dates originally booked and and you'd lose the entire fare.

As far as rules go, they are readily available when booking and I doubt they have changed in relation to you issue unless you booked a 'flexible' fare.

Here's what a standard transpacific red e-deal fare's rules are: (Bookings - Fare Types)

This fare may be used as credit towards the payment of any higher fare from the point of origin, provided the new fare conditions are met. A reissue fee of A$60 per person applies. If the new fare is cancelled the original fare cancellation penalties will apply. This credit must be used within 12 months of the original tickets date of issue.

You state it relates to cancellations.

Well here's some sample fare rules, I highlight the main bit in relation to this: (OLSP1)

Results from ExpertFlyer.com

Fare Routing Search:
Departing MEL on 18/10/12 for LAX
Fare basis code OLSP1
Flying QF
Routing via Pacific

Rule Category                           Rule Text

RULE APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS   ...

VOLUNTARY CHANGES                          IN THE EVENT OF CHANGES TO TICKETED FLIGHTS
                                           BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET VALIDITY
...
                                             2. NEW TKT HAS EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE THAN PREVIOUS
                                             TKT...

Can you advise your fare code and the date you booked.

If there is only one PAX in the booking you may be able to find your fare code here: http://plane.lan.com/cgi-bin/recibo_eticket/recibo_eticket.cgi

 

[medhead]

Ok the sale has ended now. What are the price options looking like now?


Sent from the Throne

 

[nowmedia]

Good luck. You'll need it. Try tweeting QF. They obviously have an agency looking after twitter for them and they can be prompt and understanding.

 

[stroudie]

Qantas never cease to amaze me. We booked 2 separate flights (leaving different dates, meet up & return on the same flight) Booked economy class through Qantas site, then tried to see if I could upgrade using my points. Was advised that couldn't do this as our fares were sale price fares. What a joke, sale price, they were several hundred dollars more than the opposition !
Anyway, just this week, Qantas emailed us & advised us that we could upgrade to business or economy plus by using points. My wife departed last week & I leave in 2 weeks. Does this mean that Qantas have now noticed that the flight is not fully booked & perhaps they can now find available seats for us ? This offer was available for my flight over to London & for both our flights back from London,. As I mentioned my wife has already departed.
I find this more than a little strange for customer relations on long term QFF members.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I booked a multi-city trip to the US with Qantas on a sale fare (O Class), but now need to change the dates. The flights for the new dates are currently $300 cheaper than the fare I booked.

When I tried to change my flights (expecting to pay the change fee of $200), I was told I could only change to flights with a fare of equal or higher value. To get the dates I had to change to, I would need to go up a fare level, and pay an additional $700 (as well as the change fee). A very helpful sales rep tried to find fares for me that were close to the fare I paid, but without success. It was either a lower fare, or a fare of at least $700 more.

Whilst I can understand Qantas not wanting to credit people when they change to a lower fare, it seems ridiculous that you can't change to a flight which is far cheaper than the one you booked, even though you're willing to pay the original fare plus a change fee. If I was just charged the change fee, Qantas would be getting $500 more from me than what they're willing to sell that seat for. I'd also free up a seat on my original flight, which is obviously fuller given the higher price.

In any event, it's not in Qantas' terms and conditions that you can only change to a fare of equal or higher value (it's a term for cancelling, but not for changing) - all the T&C say is that you have to pay the booking fee, service fee (if applicable) and any fare difference. When I told this to a Qantas call centre person, they trawled through the website themselves and agreed there was no such condition, but their system didn't let me change to a flight with a lower fare.

Has anyone else had a similar experience and were you able to change without paying for a fare of much higher value (when cheaper fares are available for the same flight)? I've called Qantas several times, but the call centre's systems won't let them change without me paying a much higher fare. I've also written to customer care, but still haven't heard back. Is there anything else I can do?

Can you change to the flights you want ie the ones that are $300.00 cheaper then add on a domestic fare at the end eg a SYD/DRW or SYD/PER sector that's can be combined with your USA fare so that would make your airfare higher?

So for the same amount of money you get the flights you want to/from the USA plus a one way (or return if permiited) to somewhere in Australia you may want to travel to in a few months' time?

 

[medhead]

Qantas never cease to amaze me. We booked 2 separate flights (leaving different dates, meet up & return on the same flight) Booked economy class through Qantas site, then tried to see if I could upgrade using my points. Was advised that couldn't do this as our fares were sale price fares. What a joke, sale price, they were several hundred dollars more than the opposition !
Anyway, just this week, Qantas emailed us & advised us that we could upgrade to business or economy plus by using points. My wife departed last week & I leave in 2 weeks. Does this mean that Qantas have now noticed that the flight is not fully booked & perhaps they can now find available seats for us ? This offer was available for my flight over to London & for both our flights back from London,. As I mentioned my wife has already departed.
I find this more than a little strange for customer relations on long term QFF members.

This is an offer that a number of people have received, so you and your flights are not special in that regard. Still not too late to put in upgrade requests for your return flight together. But you must be on separate bookings so there is no guarantee that both of you will get the upgrade.

See here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....our-chance-upgrade-business-qantas-41610.html

 

[MSanchez]

Thankfully in the end a helpful phone sales rep managed to find a combination of flights around the dates which equalled the same fare. She also mentioned if she couldn't, it would be easy to just tack on a leg to Perth or something, even if I had no intention of flying there. A bizarre way to do business really - rather than just giving someone a seat on a flight that is much cheaper than what they've paid, they're willing to give you seats on flights you never intend to take.

Afterwards, this was the woeful response I received from Qantas' "customer service": "Enquiries relating to fare quotes, new reservations, booking changes, credit card charges, refunds and cancellations cannot be answered via email. We suggest you call Qantas Contact Centres for assistance as they are able to examine all possible variables to meet your requests." Needless to say I had called the Contact Centres several times, who told me to email customer service because they could not change my flights to a lower fare, even though conceding no such condition was on their website.

Although by luck my situation was resolved, if anyone else has issues with needing to change itinerary but there are only fares of lower value available, then it may be well worth the fight with Qantas to avoid paying many hundreds (or thousands) more for your flights. On what's currently on their website, Qantas have no basis for requiring you to only change to fares of equal or higher value. It doesn't matter what the "fare rules" are on the computer systems of the call centre or on ExpertFlyer.

When you book online, Qantas make you an offer for travel from your chosen cities for a price, and that offer is conditional on the "fare rules" which are displayed on the page shown to you (and the pop-up windows when you click through to see, eg, what the booking change fees are) and the conditions of carriage which you're supposed to read before accepting. The fare rules for a Sale fare on the website say itinerary changes permitted upon payment of the change fee and any fare difference. There's nothing about changing itinerary in the conditions of carriage.

In other words, Qantas offer you a right to change your itinerary upon payment of certain fees, and that right is not said to be subject to only changing to fares of equal or higher value (unlike with the right to cancel, which is subject to such a condition). When you tick the box indicating you "accept" that offer, and then pay your money, the fare rules and the conditions of carriage which you're shown when booking comprise your contract with Qantas, and as part of that contract you have a right to change upon payment of the fees mentioned. Qantas can try put whatever policies or new rules they want in place, but unless it was a condition shown to you at the time you ticked the "I accept" box and paid your money, their own policies and rules are irrelevant. If they refuse to let you change because there's only fares of lower value available, and there was nothing in the "fare rules" shown to you which said that was the case, then Qantas have breached their contract with you.

Given Qantas' poor customer service response, it's almost a shame there's no more need for me to argue this one through.

 

[mannej]

Qantas never cease to amaze me. We booked 2 separate flights (leaving different dates, meet up & return on the same flight) Booked economy class through Qantas site, then tried to see if I could upgrade using my points. Was advised that couldn't do this as our fares were sale price fares. What a joke, sale price, they were several hundred dollars more than the opposition !
Anyway, just this week, Qantas emailed us & advised us that we could upgrade to business or economy plus by using points. My wife departed last week & I leave in 2 weeks. Does this mean that Qantas have now noticed that the flight is not fully booked & perhaps they can now find available seats for us ? This offer was available for my flight over to London & for both our flights back from London,. As I mentioned my wife has already departed.
I find this more than a little strange for customer relations on long term QFF members.

What QF charge in relation to the competitors is irrelevant in regards to it's upgrade conditions.

A sale fare will tell you this on the review page even before you add your passenger names:

[TD="class: sideText"]Qantas Frequent Flyer
[/TD]

[TD="class: sideText, width: 580"]

• Flight Upgrade Awards are not eligible on this fare.
• Points and Status Credits may be earned on this fare. Classed as Discount
  Economy when Points or Status Credits are earned.
• Frequent Flyers do not earn points on Qantas codeshares with Deutsche Bahn.

[/TD]

compared to a fare that is eligible:

[TD="class: sideText"]Qantas Frequent Flyer
[/TD]

[TD="class: sideText, width: 580"]

• Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare.
• Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights.
• Points and Status Credits may be earned on this fare. Classed as Discount
  Economy when Points or Status Credits are earned.
• Frequent Flyers do not earn points on Qantas codeshares with Deutsche Bahn.

[/TD]

The reasons behind such offers may have other reasons other than space available on the flight.

 

[mannej]

Serfty - The link you have provided to the QF page provides this under changes:

[TABLE="class: fare2, width: 100%"]


[TR]
[TD="class: description"]Booking Changes[/TD]
[TD]

• Before and after departure:
  • One-way and return booking changes can be made online at qantas.com/yourbooking. To make changes to multi-city bookings, or to make changes via phone, call 13 13 13. For changes made over the phone you must pay the service fee applicable as at the date of the change.
  • Itinerary changes permitted. At the time of making the change, you must pay (per person per change):
    • the itinerary change fee (no charge for infant paying 10% of the fare)
    • any fare difference

[/TD]
[/TR]


[/TABLE]

No reference to it being a higher fare except for if the original fare is cancelled.

 

[serfty]

Serfty - The link you have provided to the QF page provides this under changes:


No reference to it being a higher fare except for if the original fare is cancelled.

Yes, that is correct and definitely Qantas are at fault as they don't make available all the fare rules when booking.

The only way to see ALL the fare rules is to have access to a GDS/EF/KVS etc.