Canadian Airports: Why Y?

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Cocitus23

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Most of you would have noticed that the three letter codes for Canadian airports commence with Y. Thus YYZ, YVR, YUL, YEG etc.
But who can tell me why this is? Is Canada the only country which has such a convention? And does Canada have a monopoly on Y? Are there any airports in Canada which do not commence with Y? What is the origin of it all?
 
Most of you would have noticed that the three letter codes for Canadian airports commence with Y. Thus YYZ, YVR, YUL, YEG etc.
But who can tell me why this is? Is Canada the only country which has such a convention? And does Canada have a monopoly on Y? Are there any airports in Canada which do not commence with Y? What is the origin of it all?

The answer IS out there because I remember reading it some years ago - unfortunately I can't recall what it was! :(

I'll do some searching...
 
Well, codes are set by IATA, and the headquarters is in Montreal.....
 
I believe it's acutally that the codes were originally for weather stations, where W** was a weather station, and Y** indicated also at an airport.


Google??

www.google.com
 
I've heard various stories about it, but for whatever reason, Canada decided on it back in the days when they were first being assigned.
 
Try this page for further conjecture: SKYTRAX Chat : Why do Canadian airport codes start with a Y and not reflect the airport name ? (But no definitive answer)

Or have a look at FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/canada/926013-why-do-all-canadian-airport-codes-start-y.html
Aviatrix said:
We've had this discussion before somewhere on FT...:

There are two types of airport codes: Four-letter ICAO codes used for flight operations/ATC, and three-letter IATA codes used for passenger handling.

ICAO codes consist of a two-letter country prefix and a two-letter airport code. Some countries (those with lots of airports) have more than one prefix. The USA has 26 - KA to KZ. Canada has four, CU, CW, CY and CZ. The vast majority of Canadian airports use IATA codes starting in CY.

(There are some that start in CZ. CU and CW are used for special purposes such as airport met offices.)

For most of the world ICAO codes and IATA codes bear no resemblance to each other. LHR is EGLL, AMS is EHAM, CDG is LFPG.

In the USA and Canada, however, IATA codes are based on ICAO codes.

For US airports the IATA code is the ICAO code without the initial K. JFK is KJFK, LAX is KLAX.

For Canadian airports the IATA code is the ICAO code without the initial C. Hence CYOW = YOW, CYYZ = YYZ.

In theory there should be some Canadian IATA codes starting in Z but looking at the CZ.. list in my ICAO directory I suspect these are mostly places without scheduled services (and hence without IATA codes) such as CZMN = 108 Mile Airport in BC.

Of course, they explains the how but not why Y!

Here's a bit more on that: http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html
...
Some special interest groups successfully lobbied the government to obtain their own special letters. The Navy saved all the new 'N' codes. Naval aviators learn to fly at NPA in Pensacola, Florida and then dream of going to "Top Gun" in Miramar, California (NKX). The Federal Communications Committee set aside the 'W' and 'K' codes for radio stations east and west of the Mississippi respectively. 'Q' was designated for international telecommunications. 'Z' was reserved for special uses. The Canadians made off with all the remaining 'Y codes which helps explain YUL for Montreal, YYC for Calgary, etc. (The start of the the song YYZ by the band Rush is the Morse code for the letters Y Y Z. Rush is from Toronto.) One of the special uses for 'Z' is identifying locations in cyberspace. What am I talking about? Well, an example is ZCX the computer address of the FAA's air traffic control headquarters central flow control facility. ZCX is not an airport but a command center just outside Washington D.C., that controls the airline traffic into major terminals. ...

Maybe the best answer(s) is/are here: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=5204 (but you'll just have to read them).
 
I have become so accustomed to the flood of pertinent information in response to questions on this forum that I did not think it possible to pose a question about the aviation world which would leave the membership without an answer, but I think I might have hit on such a question here.
When I posed this question, admittedly of no significance other than curiosity, I thought that many would instantly provide the answer. It’s a bit like why does the country name not appear on British postage stamps, and why dot com is not followed by dot us in American web addresses.
Thanks Serfty for the trouble you went to in hunting down the links to other forums where this issue of Canadian airports had been discussed. I followed them all and read all the submissions, but as you say, none of them really get to the meat of the question. They are more a grab-bag of nonsense and conjecture, nothing that you would call a concise, authoritative answer. Not that the forums were useless: I did learn that there were exceptions to the rules that (1) all Canadian airport codes commence with Y, and (2) that Canadian airports have an exclusive hold on Y as an initial letter.
So I decided to do a little research myself.
Exceptions Type 1. These are far more numerous than I had suspected. There are 547 airports in Canada, of which 444 (81%) have an initial Y, and 103 (19%) with some other letter. But in the vast majority of those 103 the initial letter is X or Z. Only a handful have a non-X, Y, Z initial. [As a personal aside I must admit that I should have known this only too well. I approved the construction plans of one of those exceptions, DVK (which sits way out in the middle of the tundra), and I flew in and out of it many times. But I had never realised until now what its designator was.] However, when I examined the list of those 103, I noticed that almost without exception they are landing strips in remote regions or in very small communities which most Canadians would never have heard of. One might quibble about inclusion on the ‘remote and small’ list of ZBF - Bathurst, New Brunswick, population 13000 – and CXH Coal Harbour BC, which is right beside downtown Vancouver!! Actually, it is the portion of Burrard Inlet reserved for sea plane movements.
Exceptions Type 2 . One of the correspondents to whom Serfty has pointed has informed us that Yakima Washington is YKM. In fact I have discovered that there are 39 other such non-Canadian airports with an initial Y (and three of them are here in Australia.) There are 484 airports in the world starting with Y, of which 444 are in Canada and the other 40 are scattered around the world. As far as I could tell, the 40 are all small remote places, with the exceptions of YKM Yakima (population 82,000) and YNG Youngstown Ohio (population 83,000). By the way, the Australian trio are YLG (Yalgoo in central WA), YNN (Yandi, in the Pilbara region of WA) and YUE (Yuendumu, in the middle of the Northern Territory).
In Conclusion, I think it is fair to say that despite all the exceptions, someone, somewhere, is making a concerted attempt to reserve as many of the 626 (26 squared, for the mathematically minded) possible Y combinations for the significant airports of Canada and to deny their use to significant airports elsewhere. Clearly this game has been played (or perhaps I should say this policy has been pursued) for a long time, and continues to be. But by whom, and why, and why Canada alone and why Y? As docjames has reminded us IATA is based in Montreal, so one suspects some leverage by Canadian authorities. But why?
 
But by whom, and why, and why Canada alone and why Y? As docjames has reminded us IATA is based in Montreal, so one suspects some leverage by Canadian authorities. But why?

Most of the Canadian IATA codes are the same as there ICAO codes, with the leading C stripped off. I think the questions are:

1) why do ICAO use Y as the second letter in Canadian Airports,
2) why does IATA just use the same codes for the airports.

If IATA did the same in Australia, we'd have things like SSY for Sydney and PPH for Perth (ICAO YSSY and YPPH respectively).
 
I think it is fair to say that despite all the exceptions, someone, somewhere, is making a concerted attempt to reserve as many of the 626 (26 squared, for the mathematically minded) [/FONT][/SIZE]

As a mathematics teacher (and pedant) by profession I feel obligated to point out that 26 squared is actually 676.
 
Touche, dragonman. Congratulations on your perception. From one pedant mathematician to another, allow me to admit my error and grovel in public shame.
You will appreciate the source of my error where others might not: I somehow overlooked the 2xy term in the expansion of (x+y)squared. Well, at least it provides Canada with another 50 designators to provide to new airports!
 
Most of the Canadian IATA codes are the same as there ICAO codes, with the leading C stripped off. I think the questions are:

1) why do ICAO use Y as the second letter in Canadian Airports,
2) why does IATA just use the same codes for the airports.

If IATA did the same in Australia, we'd have things like SSY for Sydney and PPH for Perth (ICAO YSSY and YPPH respectively).

Well the ICAO uses Y to start all Australian 4-char codes, so it's not just the IATA that uses one letter for a whole country. ;)
 
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Well the ICAO uses Y to start all Australian 4-char codes, so it's not just the IATA that uses one letter for a whole country. ;)

In ICAO codes, the first letter gives you a rough geographical location of where the airport is in the world. Y is Australia, C is Canada.
 
Thanks oz_mark. you've made the point which seems to have escaped the previous poster. In the ICAO codes the initial has a purpose and numerous countries have their own identifier, but in the IATA codes Canada would seem to be uniquely distinguished.
 
All in all, I think the best piece of information was that Canada already had "their own" 2 character codes, so secured Y for these when they could.
 
But 'Y' :?:
Why not:?: :p

Actually, if what I perceive the be the best answer is correct, then it's because yes starts with y and no starts with n.

This answer is found here:

AVCANADA • View topic - Airport Identifiers--the history
OK. Here's the real answer.

In the olden days, even before aviation was all the rage, Hedley was in grade 3 for the third time and satellites weren't even thought of ,weather reporting stations were scattered throughout Canada at strategic locations. Each station was given a two letter identifier. You may still see the two letter designation on some maps.

Some stations like one manned in Winnipeg were given relatively straight forward identifiers like WG.

Others, like the one in the middle of a field east of Toronto was left with YZ since TO was already taken and didn't really describe the geographic location anyway.

Later on as aerodromes became popular, the equivalent to Environment Canada of the day decided to co-locate some of the stations with airports. In some cases airports were built at existing weather reporting sites.

The lists with the codes for the reporting stations were amended to indicate if the station was co-located with an airport "Y" or not "N".

So WG became YWG. They didn't really bother using the "N" in day to day communications.

The C was added to meet international navigation standards and now the full Cxx_ format is used to identify the airport. Most navigation databases define the position of Cxx_ as the middle of the longest runway on the airport.

Of course later on lots of airports were added that had no co-located weather reporting stations. They weren't really bound to the format so we started seeing places like CZTM etc.

Now that Environment Canada has revamped (screwed up) weather reporting in Canada, nobody is bound to the old standard.

With respect to nav aids associated to a particular airport, many adopted the airport identifier as the radio station identifier listed on the tranmsitter licence for the primary nav aid. Other navaids were often derived from the primary nav aid identification. This isn't a standard so its not used exclusively.

For example, CYWG has a YWG VOR and a WG, and a Y and a W and a G NDB. But it also has an N beacon. Dunno where that came from!

At this point in time, the airport identifier has nothing to do with the co-location of weather reporting stations, ILS capabilities or anything else but history.
 
Interesting discussions.

When I trained with Flight Centre, and doing fares and ticketing, the questions was asked. The explanation given was:-

IATA who set the codes are headquarter in Canada. When allocating the codes for all the airports worldwide, it was discovered that there was going to be some duplication, so Canada as the host nation (so to speak) took the Y out of courtesy.

My Mum always taught me that the host took the offerings that were left.

Not sure if its true or not, but it makes a good story.

Adam
 
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