Commercial Pilot suicide

[Quickstatus]

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

Very Sad. If true, At least he did not do it in a 747. RIP

 

[harvyk]

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

Very Sad. If true, At least he did not do it in a 747. RIP

Behind a paywall.

 

[Quickstatus]

Qantas pilot's suicide crash off Byron: report – Echonetdaily

Behind a paywall.

 

[Milefest]

I hate paywalls.

Here's the article:

​

 

[Flying mermaid]

Very sad. At least he didn't feel the need to take hundreds of other people with him. I wish our society could do more for people suffering from depression - if you can only get them through the black patch, life can become better again.

 

[Mal]

This type of media reporting is appalling and shameful. There is no proof that suicide was involved, and out of respect to the family the media should shut up and report fairly. When the ATSB / Coroner report is released, and it will be based on FACTS not rumours, then the media can fairly report on the matter.

Gutter journalism.

 

[mannej]

I concur with Mal's comments.

Considering this occurred 6 days ago, I find it appalling that this has made the media in the way that it has.

All very much judge, jury and executioner in the same article. However reading between the lines, this was published fairly close to the anniversary to the Germanwings flight. Whilst I am all for talking about mental health, there are much better ways that it can be done instead of this alarmist manner.

 

[jb747]

This story was largely being pushed by the bloke who owned the Cessna. So he has a vested interest in his aircraft not being at fault.

 

[farstar]

I think until it can be proven that it was suicide then it would be libelous and people should shut up but sadly as far as i know you can't libel people who are dead. I think the law should be changed to correct this.

 

[juddles]

I find it absolutely disgusting that some news sites chose to show the whole photo of Paul with his daughters!!! Unbelievable!! Sure, they pixelated their faces a bit, but that is outrageous.

 

[russ]

This type of media reporting is appalling and shameful. There is no proof that suicide was involved, and out of respect to the family the media should shut up and report fairly. When the ATSB / Coroner report is released, and it will be based on FACTS not rumours, then the media can fairly report on the matter.

My understanding is that the ATSB is not investigating the matter. See: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/03/24/world/asia/ap-as-australia-pilot-crash.html?_r=0

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau, which investigates fatal air crashes and is currently leading the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which vanished in the Indian Ocean two years ago with 239 people aboard, said Thursday it was not investigating Whyte's death. The bureau would not explain why.

"Based on information available, the ATSB has assessed that this isn't a transport safety matter," it said in a statement.

I had a look at the ATSB website and the incident is not listed. See ATSB Safety investigations & reports

 

[juddles]

My understanding is that the ATSB is not investigating the matter. See: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/03/24/world/asia/ap-as-australia-pilot-crash.html?_r=0


I had a look at the ATSB website and the incident is not listed. See ATSB Safety investigations & reports

Russ, once upon a time I was a crash investigator with the police. I did a couple of fatal light aircraft and glider jobs. ATSB would only deal with bigger or commercial crashes. But I would always liaise with them and they were only too happy to help with anything I needed. The police report goes before a Coroner and they decide if any further investigation or action is required.

 

[Melburnian1]

This is a sensitive matter and we should all pray for the family and for the deceased gentleman.

An employer's reluctance to add 'comment' is understandable as in industries like aviation, companies such as Qantas would be very concerned that readers of such media stories might say 'what if...' and immediately draw parallels to the MH370 alleged situation. MH370 led to a fairly dramatic decline in MH bookings and revenue. That entity's ongoing financial losses may also have been due to previous poor management, overstaffing and unprofitable routes and commenced well before the MH370 disappearance but a sudden, unexpected further drop in revenue does not exactly assist an airline to reduce losses or achieve a decent return on shareholders' funds:

Malaysia Airlines MH370 disappearance may be final straw for airline

Nonetheless it seems unwise that allegedly QF tried to stonewall media queries as to whether the person concerned was a tech crew member when the journalists trying to confirm that more or less 'knew.'

Many media outlets are sensationalist. However the ATSB's decision not to investigate the matter at the very least implies that there were 'no suspicious circumstances.'

On balance, there is public interest involved because the gentleman had recently been flying large QF regular public transport.

About 45 years ago a decision was made in Victoria to try to bring the road toll down by openly discussing it, including the grief that families went through when a loved one died on the roads. At the time (1970 if I recall) Victoria's road toll had been 1034 dead. There are many reasons for the decline today to about 250 per annum including safer roads, safer, technologically advanced vehicles, more boom barriers at railway crossings and some of those more dangerous ones being grade separated, the substitution of some long distance road travel by safer travel by air and more signalised intersections and pedestrian crossings plus (contentious) lower speed limits in some situations, but arguably the toll would be higher today if the community had not engaged in a public discussion.

It is impractical and smacking of too much interference in private lives for employers to be expected to somehow constantly 'know' the state of employees' mental health, but airline passengers regard safety as a 'given.'

QF was no doubt pleased when a famous film highlighted its safety record, so it should have been a bit more open with the recent matter even if it knew that some media would run stories of a sensationalist nature. Instead, its slow response leaves open a question in some readers' minds of 'what has QF as a company got to hide?', whether or not that question is fair or not. It is all about perceptions.

The ATSB's refusal to explain why it is not investigating also leads to one - and one only - conclusion even though the community might be accused of prejudging this matter. It too ought to have been a bit more open with the media, provided that it had the facts to back up any public statements and was legally able to make certain statements.

Dismissing the story because the bloke who owned the aircraft allegedly wanted to draw attention away from that equipment is a red herring.

juddles, times may have changed as here is one example of how today's ATSB investigates far smaller planes involved in incidents than those operated by our four major domestic airlines:

Investigation: AO-2016-029 - VFR into IMC involving Piper PA-28, VH-BDB, 33 km W of Bankstown Airport, NSW on 29 March 2016

We are not going to reduce suicides if we hide them and fail to publicly discuss them, difficult and confronting as the topic may be. The commercial interests of large companies ought not take precedence over the public policy goal of saying 'yes' to life even if it has its ups and (sometimes numerous and hard) downs.

We also ideally should not regard individuals in certain occupations - tennis, AFL, NRL players and cricketers, surgeons, top barristers, senior justices and magistrates, parliamentarians, airline pilots, company directors and CEOs, senior department heads in the public service, highly successful entrepreneurs, attractive models who strut the world stage, celebrities and senior doctors to name a few - as some sort of substitute 'god.' They are not, and are as fallible as the rest of us when it comes to physical and mental health even though in their specialist role they may be lifesavers or at the 'top of the tree.' It is great to recognise that these people have gifts from God with many being examples of men and women who have used these talents to good avail - remember a well known Biblical reading - but putting them on some sort of extremely high pedestal can be a little over the top. Occasional media reports suggest that this type of 'star treatment' leads to some who receive it becoming very unhappy in their lives despite having income, material wealth and possessions such as multiple houses that 95 per cent of the community can only (again perhaps unwisely) dream about.

The sensationalist elements in the media may be partly to blame for this sort of false idolatry but some might suggest that we obtain the society we deserve.

 

[harvyk]

QF was no doubt pleased when a famous film highlighted its safety record, so it should have been a bit more open with the recent matter even if it knew that some media would run stories of a sensationalist nature. Instead, its slow response leaves open a question in some readers' minds of 'what has QF as a company got to hide?', whether or not that question is fair or not. It is all about perceptions.

The ATSB's refusal to explain why it is not investigating also leads to one - and one only - conclusion even though the community might be accused of prejudging this matter. It too ought to have been a bit more open with the media, provided that it had the facts to back up any public statements and was legally able to make certain statements.

I don't really know what QF could say. Yes it was their pilot, however it was not done on a QF flight, and QF don't control their pilots (or any staff member) outside of work hours. Unless it is proven that work pressures was the reason for the suicide a quick media release stating "we feel sorry for the family" could actually do more harm than good.

Furthermore, does the ATSB need to investigate? The ATSB's goal is to improve transport safety through the investigation of accidents to determine if there is a safety factor which can be improved. If it is known as a pilot suicide, what could their investigations do to improve safety for aviation?

I'm going to leave it at this is just one of those really sad events. Nothing more.

 

[straitman]

This is a sensitive matter and we should all pray for the family and for the deceased gentleman.

An employer's reluctance to add 'comment' is understandable as in industries like aviation, companies such as Qantas would be very concerned that readers of such media stories might say 'what if...' and immediately draw parallels to the MH370 alleged situation. MH370 led to a fairly dramatic decline in MH bookings and revenue. That entity's ongoing financial losses may also have been due to previous poor management, overstaffing and unprofitable routes and commenced well before the MH370 disappearance but a sudden, unexpected further drop in revenue does not exactly assist an airline to reduce losses or achieve a decent return on shareholders' funds:

Malaysia Airlines MH370 disappearance may be final straw for airline

Nonetheless it seems unwise that allegedly QF tried to stonewall media queries as to whether the person concerned was a tech crew member when the journalists trying to confirm that more or less 'knew.'

Many media outlets are sensationalist. However the ATSB's decision not to investigate the matter at the very least implies that there were 'no suspicious circumstances.'

On balance, there is public interest involved because the gentleman had recently been flying large QF regular public transport.

About 45 years ago a decision was made in Victoria to try to bring the road toll down by openly discussing it, including the grief that families went through when a loved one died on the roads. At the time (1970 if I recall) Victoria's road toll had been 1034 dead. There are many reasons for the decline today to about 250 per annum including safer roads, safer, technologically advanced vehicles, more boom barriers at railway crossings and some of those more dangerous ones being grade separated, the substitution of some long distance road travel by safer travel by air and more signalised intersections and pedestrian crossings plus (contentious) lower speed limits in some situations, but arguably the toll would be higher today if the community had not engaged in a public discussion.

It is impractical and smacking of too much interference in private lives for employers to be expected to somehow constantly 'know' the state of employees' mental health, but airline passengers regard safety as a 'given.'

QF was no doubt pleased when a famous film highlighted its safety record, so it should have been a bit more open with the recent matter even if it knew that some media would run stories of a sensationalist nature. Instead, its slow response leaves open a question in some readers' minds of 'what has QF as a company got to hide?', whether or not that question is fair or not. It is all about perceptions.

The ATSB's refusal to explain why it is not investigating also leads to one - and one only - conclusion even though the community might be accused of prejudging this matter. It too ought to have been a bit more open with the media, provided that it had the facts to back up any public statements and was legally able to make certain statements.

Dismissing the story because the bloke who owned the aircraft allegedly wanted to draw attention away from that equipment is a red herring.

juddles, times may have changed as here is one example of how today's ATSB investigates far smaller planes involved in incidents than those operated by our four major domestic airlines:

Investigation: AO-2016-029 - VFR into IMC involving Piper PA-28, VH-BDB, 33 km W of Bankstown Airport, NSW on 29 March 2016

We are not going to reduce suicides if we hide them and fail to publicly discuss them, difficult and confronting as the topic may be. The commercial interests of large companies ought not take precedence over the public policy goal of saying 'yes' to life even if it has its ups and (sometimes numerous and hard) downs.

We also ideally should not regard individuals in certain occupations - tennis, AFL, NRL players and cricketers, surgeons, top barristers, senior justices and magistrates, parliamentarians, airline pilots, company directors and CEOs, senior department heads in the public service, highly successful entrepreneurs, attractive models who strut the world stage, celebrities and senior doctors to name a few - as some sort of substitute 'god.' They are not, and are as fallible as the rest of us when it comes to physical and mental health even though in their specialist role they may be lifesavers or at the 'top of the tree.' It is great to recognise that these people have gifts from God with many being examples of men and women who have used these talents to good avail - remember a well known Biblical reading - but putting them on some sort of extremely high pedestal can be a little over the top. Occasional media reports suggest that this type of 'star treatment' leads to some who receive it becoming very unhappy in their lives despite having income, material wealth and possessions such as multiple houses that 95 per cent of the community can only (again perhaps unwisely) dream about.

The sensationalist elements in the media may be partly to blame for this sort of false idolatry but some might suggest that we obtain the society we deserve.

Whilst I have no issues with you expressing your opinion I think this is one of the more inappropriate posts i have ever read on AFF and draws conclusions based on your beliefs rather than on fact.

I don't really know what QF could say. Yes it was their pilot, however it was not done on a QF flight, and QF don't control their pilots (or any staff member) outside of work hours. Unless it is proven that work pressures was the reason for the suicide a quick media release stating "we feel sorry for the family" could actually do more harm than good.

Furthermore, does the ATSB need to investigate? The ATSB's goal is to improve transport safety through the investigation of accidents to determine if there is a safety factor which can be improved. If it is known as a pilot suicide, what could their investigations do to improve safety for aviation?

I'm going to leave it at this is just one of those really sad events. Nothing more.

I agree completely.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't really know what QF could say. Yes it was their pilot, however it was not done on a QF flight, and QF don't control their pilots (or any staff member) outside of work hours. Unless it is proven that work pressures was the reason for the suicide a quick media release stating "we feel sorry for the family" could actually do more harm than good.

Furthermore, does the ATSB need to investigate? The ATSB's goal is to improve transport safety through the investigation of accidents to determine if there is a safety factor which can be improved. If it is known as a pilot suicide, what could their investigations do to improve safety for aviation?

I'm going to leave it at this is just one of those really sad events. Nothing more.

The investigation... whichever agency or court carries it out... would have plenty of things to look at and potentially improve safety.

You'd start by asking whether QF was aware of the problems being faced by the pilot? did self reporting work? when was the last psychological assessment? is the timing between assessments right to pick up any sudden changes? Was QF aware and already removed the pilot from the flying roster?

This is was a tragic event, but to say that there is absolutely nothing for QF or any other entity to investigate is perhaps missing an opportunity. At the very least you would look for some sort of confirmation that your existing processes and procedures are robust enough to try and prevent this happening on your commercial jet (rather than the light aircraft).

 

[Melburnian1]

Furthermore, does the ATSB need to investigate? The ATSB's goal is to improve transport safety through the investigation of accidents to determine if there is a safety factor which can be improved. If it is known as a pilot suicide, what could their investigations do to improve safety for aviation?

harvyk, you missed my point which was that the ATSB could have been a little more open (if permitted by law) as to why it did not see a need to investigate.

Safety is all about perceptions. Most community members do not stop to consider the rate of accidents per million passengers, which for domestic and international air travel in all but a handful of countries is very low. But if these same residents see a 'rumour' on Facebook, they may believe it, irrespective as to the truth of the matter.

Australian-domiciled airlines operating regular public transport flights carrying above a dozen passengers have an excellent safety record. For many years, air travel at this level has been safer than you and I driving or travelling as a passenger in a motor vehicle and many, many times safer than riding a motorbike or travelling as a pillion passenger.

There may be legalities preventing government agencies from elaborating at times but the ATSB's complete lack of frankness is typical of the way that the road toll was treated by government prior to about 1969 or 1970. That the road toll was not publicly discussed much in the 1950s and 1960s (before many of us were born) contributed to a lack of public pressure on decision makers to do much about it, and so to needless suffering for friends and family whose loss could arguably, at least in some cases, not have occurred.

I did not suggest that QF 'put out a media release.' All I said was that it appeared reluctant until repeatedly pushed to even confirm that an individual worked for it. This was unwise as the community may wonder what companies like it for which safety is an absolute essential have to hide. QF's alleged initial failure to even briefly respond gave the media, led by the local paper on the Gold Coast, an opportunity to highlight that QF did not initially even confirm the employment of an individual.

This is not 50 years ago when the only communication was face to face, letters, landline telephones or public phone boxes and telex machines. Today we have FB, Instagram, Twitter and sensationalist media sites like the Daily Mail Australia that put together are rapidly read by hundreds of thousands of Australians if not more.

Some may claim it is 'inappropriate' to even touch upon these matters.

The available evidence, not just 'my opinion', confirms that a culture of silence or denial is not optimal in the long run.

 

[UP4014]

This is a sensitive matter and we should all pray for the family and for the deceased gentleman.

An employer's reluctance to add 'comment' is understandable as in industries like aviation, companies such as Qantas would be very concerned that readers of such media stories might say 'what if...' and immediately draw parallels to the MH370 alleged situation. MH370 led to a fairly dramatic decline in MH bookings and revenue. That entity's ongoing financial losses may also have been due to previous poor management, overstaffing and unprofitable routes and commenced well before the MH370 disappearance but a sudden, unexpected further drop in revenue does not exactly assist an airline to reduce losses or achieve a decent return on shareholders' funds:

snipped......

The sensationalist elements in the media may be partly to blame for this sort of false idolatry but some might suggest that we obtain the society we deserve.

Huh !

We might be able to mention Germanwings but I'm not sure we should even utter MH370 as until it's known what happened it's just a guess.

The only thing that made sense is the first 5 words.

 

[JessicaTam]

Thread closed for review.