Comparing Award Mile Redemptions

[phantompharter]

Hi,

I have put this thread in the general discussion. Mods feel free to move or suggest where I might find a post that already discusses this.

I am looking to visit some friends in Fiji or Rarotonga (or it could be another island - they are sailing around) next year. To do this I am starting to read up about a number of the award programs that are available for me to purchase miles from as redemptions to these areas seem much cheaper from Oz than paying for a ticket. Some of them also come with some interesting routings that mean we may also get to visit some of our northern neighbours.

I have been reading about the different programs in the separate threads but have not come across any posts that seem to compare the different programs award redemption rules.
I have started to put together a table for myself for a number of different programs (AA, USDM, LM etc) which lists how many stopovers, layovers, open jaws are allowed in each program redemption. Also whether fuel surcharges are charged and if they allow a hold policy on your ticket (useful for me in case we need to travel to the start of a redemption if that works out best - thus giving time to research getting to the start point). Also how many miles for the redemption i am interested and how much to buy those miles. I am sure as I keep going I will keep adding more to this list....

So my question is:
Can you point me in the right direction for where this info might exist in a common place?
What programs should I be considering? I have been quite surprised about how good some of the above programs are in terms of a creative routing to get to where we want to - especially as I have previously just looked at oz carriers only.

If this info doesn't exist somewhere then maybe this could be a good place to start pulling it together.
I will post up my table once I have a bit more info in it.

Cheers
phantompharter

 

[phantompharter]

Ok.

So here is what I have found out so far.
(In particular with a focus on an oz to pacific redemption for me).

Anyone who knows better please feel free to correct me.

Prices are at current mile purchase costs (LM and USDM have the share mile offer going atm).



I have only compared LM, USDM and UA at this point.

So if possible the following itinerary is what I am hoping to figure out:

On LM: 1-way for 17500 PER-AKL-RAR
On USDM: 2-way for 25000 RAR - AKL - SYD - BKK - NRT - GUM - ROR (destination)
then return ROR - GUM - NRT (stopover) - BKK - PER - AKL - RAR
And then get off at Perth on the way past on the return trip.

So if this is possible this should end up ~$700 to and from Perth in J (before any booking fees).

Anyone got suggestions/thoughts about whether this will be possible and/or if I have my info wrong etc...

Cheers.

 

[burmans]

Ok.

So here is what I have found out so far.
(In particular with a focus on an oz to pacific redemption for me).

Anyone who knows better please feel free to correct me.

Prices are at current mile purchase costs (LM and USDM have the share mile offer going atm).

View attachment 19559

I have only compared LM, USDM and UA at this point.

So if possible the following itinerary is what I am hoping to figure out:

On LM: 1-way for 17500 PER-AKL-RAR
On USDM: 2-way for 25000 RAR - AKL - SYD - BKK - NRT - GUM - ROR (destination)
then return ROR - GUM - NRT (stopover) - BKK - PER - AKL - RAR
And then get off at Perth on the way past on the return trip.

So if this is possible this should end up ~$700 to and from Perth in J (before any booking fees).

Anyone got suggestions/thoughts about whether this will be possible and/or if I have my info wrong etc...

Cheers.

UA allows one ways and I actually thought they had two Oceania Zones (i.e. Oceania/Aust& NZ are different, with inter zone being slightly cheaper)

 

[aikman]

Ok.

So here is what I have found out so far.
(In particular with a focus on an oz to pacific redemption for me).

Anyone who knows better please feel free to correct me.

Prices are at current mile purchase costs (LM and USDM have the share mile offer going atm).

View attachment 19559

I have only compared LM, USDM and UA at this point.

So if possible the following itinerary is what I am hoping to figure out:

On LM: 1-way for 17500 PER-AKL-RAR
On USDM: 2-way for 25000 RAR - AKL - SYD - BKK - NRT - GUM - ROR (destination)
then return ROR - GUM - NRT (stopover) - BKK - PER - AKL - RAR
And then get off at Perth on the way past on the return trip.

So if this is possible this should end up ~$700 to and from Perth in J (before any booking fees).

Anyone got suggestions/thoughts about whether this will be possible and/or if I have my info wrong etc...

Cheers.

You have too many segments in your USDM award (max 10) and a stopover is officially not allowed on a single zone award.

 

[smit0847]

So if possible the following itinerary is what I am hoping to figure out:

On LM: 1-way for 17500 PER-AKL-RAR
On USDM: 2-way for 25000 RAR - AKL - SYD - BKK - NRT - GUM - ROR (destination)
then return ROR - GUM - NRT (stopover) - BKK - PER - AKL - RAR
And then get off at Perth on the way past on the return trip.

So if this is possible this should end up ~$700 to and from Perth in J (before any booking fees).

Anyone got suggestions/thoughts about whether this will be possible and/or if I have my info wrong etc...

Cheers.

I can't even begin to tell you the problems with this idea, but here goes:


1. Award availability on PER-AKL is extremely difficult to get in J. AKL-RAR is virtually impossible. Don't be the least bit surprised if you are searching availability and nothing comes up for months at a time.
2. Lifemiles will not show any overnight connection options (even if flight 1 arrives at 11pm and flight 2 leaves at 1am). Therefore you would need to find availability on both legs, that arrive and leave on the same day. This would be like a QF NB member finding a J award MEL-LAX in December.
3. The max USDM legs for a redemption are 8.
4. Although its true you cannot get from SYD/MEL/PER etc to GUM without going via Asia anyone with even a basic knowledge of geography will know you are suggesting a route that involves ridiculous amounts of backtracking. It makes no sense to go AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT when there are direct AKL-NRT flights. There are also one-stop SYD-ROR flights via ICN. BKK-PER-AKL is also nonsensical. Yes the rules have been stretched in the past but this is just ridiculous.
5. You will be well over MPM.
6. There are no *A flights between GUM and ROR.
7. A stopover on an intra-zone award is not allowed. Most agents will not allow it.
8. J availability on BKK-NRT-BKK is extremely hard to find.
9. USDM is 30,000 miles not 25,000.
10. Unless you have Hand-Luggage Only (which I'm guessing you won't given AKL, NRT and GUM will have very different climates at any given point during the year) it's going to be extremely difficult to 'get off at Perth'
11. You need to add taxes and booking fees of at least $500 pp for this whole thing.
12. All amounts are in USD so add 10% to everything to get the AUD.


Sorry to be blunt, we are here to assist but there have been a number of new members signing up in the last few months without even knowing with USDM is and then saying 'im going to GUM with a free stopover and only paying 30,000 miles because someone else did it' and then wondering why they're unable to do it. It's not a right or a feature of the program, its a unique loophole that some people have been lucky enough to book. Many haven't. It will only take a few people ringing up USDM and complaining that 'well others have booked this' when they're told no before USDM re-zone GUM and ROR as North Asia where they should be and the party is over for everyone.


As I have said again and again to every new member who asks these questions, if you have never booked a USDM trip before I would start with something far more straightforward than this as you are going to be in for a lot of frustration and disappointment. It's not a right to be able to do this it's something a few experienced members have been lucky enough to pull off.

 

[phantompharter]

UA allows one ways and I actually thought they had two Oceania Zones (i.e. Oceania/Aust& NZ are different, with inter zone being slightly cheaper)

@burmans - thanks for this. I am only just getting my head around each program - I will have to read more into the UA zones. I like the flexibility that UA offers - lots of stops and open jaws.

 

[phantompharter]

You have too many segments in your USDM award (max 10) and a stopover is officially not allowed on a single zone award.

@aikman - thanks I wil readjust my trip itinerary down a few stops.

 

[markis10]

6. There are no *A flights between GUM and ROR.

Pretty sure United is still in the * alliance:



6:45 pm → 8:00 pm GUM – ROR - - T - - F - United 193
7:00 pm → 8:15 pm GUM – ROR - M - - - - - United 157
7:30 pm → 8:45 pm GUM – ROR S - - W T - - United 157

 

[phantompharter]

@smit0847 - thanks for your detailed post. Lots of information. Though based on your tone I am not sure if you are trying to be helpful or just wanted to have a go at someone who knew less than you....

I can't even begin to tell you the problems with this idea, but here goes:


1. Award availability on PER-AKL is extremely difficult to get in J. AKL-RAR is virtually impossible. Don't be the least bit surprised if you are searching availability and nothing comes up for months at a time.

I found plenty of availability as I was looking in July/Aug/Sept 2014.

2. Lifemiles will not show any overnight connection options (even if flight 1 arrives at 11pm and flight 2 leaves at 1am). Therefore you would need to find availability on both legs, that arrive and leave on the same day. This would be like a QF NB member finding a J award MEL-LAX in December.
3. The max USDM legs for a redemption are 8.

So I was definitely being too ambitious with my routing. I was trying to find a sweet spot between two FF programs that create a dream itinerary. I think instead I will focus on ensuring I get to the pacific on one trip and then trying to get to Europe or the US creatively another time.
I had not come across the maximum 8 legs rule anywhere.

4. Although its true you cannot get from SYD/MEL/PER etc to GUM without going via Asia anyone with even a basic knowledge of geography will know you are suggesting a route that involves ridiculous amounts of backtracking. It makes no sense to go AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT when there are direct AKL-NRT flights. There are also one-stop SYD-ROR flights via ICN. BKK-PER-AKL is also nonsensical. Yes the rules have been stretched in the past but this is just ridiculous.
5. You will be well over MPM.

I am still trying to get my head around what is acceptable for a redemption and what isn't. Nothing on the LM or USDM site has mentioned what is and isn't allowed with respect to backtracking that I could see. I have also not been able to find an easy source for MPM? How do I know if a routing exceeds the allowable MPM for a particular redemption?

6. There are no *A flights between GUM and ROR.

Are you sure? I was finding availability with UA...

7. A stopover on an intra-zone award is not allowed. Most agents will not allow it.
8. J availability on BKK-NRT-BKK is extremely hard to find.
9. USDM is 30,000 miles not 25,000.
11. You need to add taxes and booking fees of at least $500 pp for this whole thing.
12. All amounts are in USD so add 10% to everything to get the AUD.

All very useful to know - thanks.

10. Unless you have Hand-Luggage Only (which I'm guessing you won't given AKL, NRT and GUM will have very different climates at any given point during the year) it's going to be extremely difficult to 'get off at Perth'

Like they say, don't assume, its makes an...
I was definitely planning on only taking hand luggage.

Sorry to be blunt, we are here to assist but there have been a number of new members signing up in the last few months without even knowing with USDM is and then saying 'im going to GUM with a free stopover and only paying 30,000 miles because someone else did it' and then wondering why they're unable to do it. It's not a right or a feature of the program, its a unique loophole that some people have been lucky enough to book. Many haven't. It will only take a few people ringing up USDM and complaining that 'well others have booked this' when they're told no before USDM re-zone GUM and ROR as North Asia where they should be and the party is over for everyone.


As I have said again and again to every new member who asks these questions, if you have never booked a USDM trip before I would start with something far more straightforward than this as you are going to be in for a lot of frustration and disappointment. It's not a right to be able to do this it's something a few experienced members have been lucky enough to pull off.

I really don't mind you being blunt. You have provided me with heaps of information. I really appreciate that - it's all helpful in trying to use the system to our advantage. i'm just a bit saddened that you have had some bad experiences with other people to the point that you then seem to tar everyone with that brush.

 

[phantompharter]

And getting back to the original reason for this thread - comparing programs, came across this thread which adds some more information to comparing a few FF programs:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....miles/us-dividend-miles-vs-avianca-43289.html