Complete KrisFlyer newbie - some questions

[wafliron]

I've only realised recently (thanks to AFF!) just how good value KrisFlyer redemptions are. I'm a complete newbie to KrisFlyer and have been trying to find answers to a bunch of questions about the program. Most of my questions I've been able to find answers for via searching / reading the KrisFlyer website & program guide / etc, but I've still got a handful that I haven't been able to find specific and current answers for.

I'm hoping someone on here could help out with the following please?

1) I can see from some test bookings that the points required for an award flight ignores transit stops - so a MEL-SIN-CDG is treated as a single Zone 9 to Zone 12 (MEL-CDG), not a MEL-SIN and a separate SIN-CDG. Is this the same for upgrades - so the points required for a MEL-SIN-CDG upgrade is the Zone 9 to Zone 12 points cost?

2)Can someone please explain waitlisting for award flights to me? The concept of a waitlist is obvious enough, I'm interested in the technicalities. Things like: when are waitlisted award flights confirmed / declined? How often do waitlisted flights actually turn into a confirmation (for a no-status pax)? Can you book a Standard award but also waitlist a Saver, with the Standard being "converted" into a Saver if the waitlisted Saver is confirmed?

3)How do upgrades work - are they confirmed immediately when requested online, or are they confirmed just before the flight (ala QF)? If the former, is there also a concept of waitlisting for upgrades? Can you upgrade only single segments inside a multi-segment trip, and/or only upgrade one direction in a return trip?

4)Is there any way to confirm whether a J or F upgrade is available prior to actually requesting it (so it can be checked before booking the base Y or J fare)? I have an EF subscription but SQ don't appear to be supported by their Awards & Upgrades tool. On the topic of EF, any known way to search for award seat availability on SQ via EF?

5)Is it possible to mix fare classes in an award booking - e.g. MEL-SIN-CDG with MEL-SIN in F and SIN-CDG in J? If so, how do you calculate the points cost - as a separate MEL-SIN and SIN-CDG, or some other way?

6)What KF miles / tier miles are earned for award flights / upgrades? I'm assuming nothing for award flights and original-fare-class miles / tier miles for upgrades as per most airlines, but thought it couldn't hurt to confirm.


Sorry for the 20 (well, 6 ) questions... I did try to find answers before posting!

Thanks.

 

[albatross710]

1) I can see from some test bookings that the points required for an award flight ignores transit stops - so a MEL-SIN-CDG is treated as a single Zone 9 to Zone 12 (MEL-CDG), not a MEL-SIN and a separate SIN-CDG. Is this the same for upgrades - so the points required for a MEL-SIN-CDG upgrade is the Zone 9 to Zone 12 points cost?

Absolutely that is the way it works, look at the total journey. There are restrictions on allowed stopovers where the transit is greater than 24 hours ie a one way saver does not allow a stopover.

2)Can someone please explain waitlisting for award flights to me? The concept of a waitlist is obvious enough, I'm interested in the technicalities. Things like: when are waitlisted award flights confirmed / declined? How often do waitlisted flights actually turn into a confirmation (for a no-status pax)? Can you book a Standard award but also waitlist a Saver, with the Standard being "converted" into a Saver if the waitlisted Saver is confirmed?

In my experience waitlists have come through for me. The booking has until 3-4 weeks before the scheduled travel date to clear. Waitlists don't get declined, they would just lapse. For me, I usually make a waitlist booking with a 'confirmed' journey and waitlist onto a better flight. In this way I have a confirmed travel booking and can make hotel arrangements etc. If the waitlist comes through then it is a bonus. Remember than in the pool of SQ bookings there are many many waitlists by many pax. When one person clears, changes plans etc etc, the waitlists of others will clear. For instance, at the moment for a trip in May I have 2 bookings, 1 departs Sunday and is still waitlisted, 1 departs Monday and was originally waitlised but now cleared and I have until 20 April to pay. At worst I travel Monday but my Sunday waitlist has until end of April to come through. I know I will travel.

3)How do upgrades work - are they confirmed immediately when requested online, or are they confirmed just before the flight (ala QF)? If the former, is there also a concept of waitlisting for upgrades? Can you upgrade only single segments inside a multi-segment trip, and/or only upgrade one direction in a return trip?

Upgrades are confirmed immediately from the redemption inventory. Single segments can be upgraded.

4)Is there any way to confirm whether a J or F upgrade is available prior to actually requesting it (so it can be checked before booking the base Y or J fare)? I have an EF subscription but SQ don't appear to be supported by their Awards & Upgrades tool. On the topic of EF, any known way to search for award seat availability on SQ via EF?

If there is a Saver redemption seat available by doing a trial booking then that same availability is available for upgrade redemption.

5)Is it possible to mix fare classes in an award booking - e.g. MEL-SIN-CDG with MEL-SIN in F and SIN-CDG in J? If so, how do you calculate the points cost - as a separate MEL-SIN and SIN-CDG, or some other way?

Only SQ knows how to calculate the points. Technically by the rules the entire redemption goes at the rate of the higher class. ie your example MEL-SIN_CDG will be at F miles. Mixed class redemptions need to be done via the call centre.

f. When a member claims an award in a class of service that is available on only certain sectors of a trip, a lower class of service may be substituted by Singapore Airlines for the other sectors of the trip. The award redemption level for the entire trip may be determined according to the actual classes of service flown or the highest class of service flown.

6)What KF miles / tier miles are earned for award flights / upgrades? I'm assuming nothing for award flights and original-fare-class miles / tier miles for upgrades as per most airlines, but thought it couldn't hurt to confirm.

Refer to these conditions:

24. Additional rules for upgrade awards
a. Upgrades are available to the next higher class of service. Double class upgrades are not permitted.
b. Miles earned for travel using an upgrade award will be based on the original class of service purchased.

Bookmark this page for future reference: KrisFlyer registration form


Alby

 

[wafliron]

Hi Albatross,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - greatly appreciated. Also, thanks for the Terms & Conditions link - I'd been trying to find it as I'd assumed the T&Cs would answer a bunch of my questions, but had failed (only finding the Membership Guide, which has limited detail).

In my experience waitlists have come through for me. The booking has until 3-4 weeks before the scheduled travel date to clear. Waitlists don't get declined, they would just lapse. For me, I usually make a waitlist booking with a 'confirmed' journey and waitlist onto a better flight. In this way I have a confirmed travel booking and can make hotel arrangements etc. If the waitlist comes through then it is a bonus. Remember than in the pool of SQ bookings there are many many waitlists by many pax. When one person clears, changes plans etc etc, the waitlists of others will clear. For instance, at the moment for a trip in May I have 2 bookings, 1 departs Sunday and is still waitlisted, 1 departs Monday and was originally waitlised but now cleared and I have until 20 April to pay. At worst I travel Monday but my Sunday waitlist has until end of April to come through. I know I will travel.

Thanks for explaining all of that, that clears up most of my questions re waitlisting.

I'm slightly confused where you talk about having a "waitlist booking with a confirmed journey and waitlist onto a better flight" though. Do you mean holding a confirmed (but unpaid) cash booking, and then waitlisting for an award flight? And you then cancel the confirmed & unpaid cash booking if the waitlist comes through? Or are you referring to confirming, say, a Standard award, and waitlisting for a Saver, and then cancelling the Saver / booking the Standard if the waitlist comes through?

Also, can you waitlist for upgrades? Or only award flights?


Finally, a couple of additional questions I'm hoping you (or someone else) can assist with:

1) Are the fare buckets for Y, J and F Saver award flights shown on EF? If so, what are they? I figure they're not as a Google didn't turn up anything, but thought it couldn't hurt to re-confirm.

2) Can anyone confirm what the differences between a Saver and Standard award are (other than the points cost), or provide a link to a document which explains said differences? It was easy to find the differences in ticket validity (6 vs 12 months) and number of allowed stopovers (1 vs 2 on a return journey), but I can't find anything else - and I assume there's also differences in flexibility WRT cancellation, changes, etc.

3) Can anyone clarify what counts as "activity" WRT keeping a KrisFlyer account from being closed (after 18 months of no activity)? Does redeeming points from a credit card to my KF account count as "activity"? What about making an award booking / upgrade redemption (activity counted at time of booking, rather than when flying)? Flying SQ with my KF account linked to the booking even if the flight is in a no-earn discount Y fare bucket? Anything else?


Thanks gaain.

 

[albatross710]

Thanks for explaining all of that, that clears up most of my questions re waitlisting.

I'm slightly confused where you talk about having a "waitlist booking with a confirmed journey and waitlist onto a better flight" though. Do you mean holding a confirmed (but unpaid) cash booking, and then waitlisting for an award flight? And you then cancel the confirmed & unpaid cash booking if the waitlist comes through? Or are you referring to confirming, say, a Standard award, and waitlisting for a Saver, and then cancelling the Saver / booking the Standard if the waitlist comes through?

What I have been doing relates to redemption bookings. On the trip that I want I might find that Sector A is available at 9:30 which is when I want to fly. I also notice that the 15:00 flight for the same sector has a Waitlist. I choose to tick the radio button for the Available flight and also waitlist for the later flight. Krisflyer then gives me a confirmed seat on the 9am flight but doesn't need me to pay for it until the end of the waitlist period 3 weeks prior to actual travel. This also means I can have 3-4 or more of these 'waitlisted' itineraries without paying or using the miles until closer to the date. At any time in that period I can convert it to a paid ticket.

Also, can you waitlist for upgrades? Or only award flights?

I'm not sure about this, Id assume so, via the website.

Finally, a couple of additional questions I'm hoping you (or someone else) can assist with:

1) Are the fare buckets for Y, J and F Saver award flights shown on EF? If so, what are they? I figure they're not as a Google didn't turn up anything, but thought it couldn't hurt to re-confirm.

I don't think SQ availability goes to EF.

2) Can anyone confirm what the differences between a Saver and Standard award are (other than the points cost), or provide a link to a document which explains said differences? It was easy to find the differences in ticket validity (6 vs 12 months) and number of allowed stopovers (1 vs 2 on a return journey), but I can't find anything else - and I assume there's also differences in flexibility WRT cancellation, changes, etc.

You have identified them! Also, the Standard have more availability.

3) Can anyone clarify what counts as "activity" WRT keeping a KrisFlyer account from being closed (after 18 months of no activity)? Does redeeming points from a credit card to my KF account count as "activity"? What about making an award booking / upgrade redemption (activity counted at time of booking, rather than when flying)? Flying SQ with my KF account linked to the booking even if the flight is in a no-earn discount Y fare bucket? Anything else?

I think activity would be miles going in or out of a KF account. If no miles are transacted (no miles Y fare) then that is no activity. As a side note, SQ have introduced more miles earning opportunities on economy travel.

Thanks gaain.

Enjoy.

 

[wafliron]

What I have been doing relates to redemption bookings. On the trip that I want I might find that Sector A is available at 9:30 which is when I want to fly. I also notice that the 15:00 flight for the same sector has a Waitlist. I choose to tick the radio button for the Available flight and also waitlist for the later flight. Krisflyer then gives me a confirmed seat on the 9am flight but doesn't need me to pay for it until the end of the waitlist period 3 weeks prior to actual travel. This also means I can have 3-4 or more of these 'waitlisted' itineraries without paying or using the miles until closer to the date. At any time in that period I can convert it to a paid ticket.

Thanks for clarifying, I think I understand.

I can see via the online booking tool that it lets you book one fligh and waitlist another, as you've suggested. However, I can't seem to get it to allow me to book one flight and waitlist for the same flight.

e.g. I'm looking at a MEL-SIN-CDG later in the year. The 10.15am MEL-SIN is showing Waitlist for Saver and Available for Standard, and the SIN-CDG later in the day is showing Available for Saver. What I want to do is book the 10.15am Standard and SIN-CDG Saver so I know I have confirmed seats, and then waitlist for the 10.15am MEL-SIN Saver (the same flight I've already booked a Standard on). I can't seem to make this work - I can book 10.15am MEL-SIN Standard and SIn-CDG Saver and then Waitlist for, e.g., the ~4pm MEL-SIN, but not the 10.15am Saver.

Does that make sense? The KF call centre told me it was possible, but I can't figure out how to do it.

I'm not sure about this, Id assume so, via the website.

For the record, KF call centre told me no waitlists for upgrades. Not a great agent though, so not sure if you can take that as gospel.

I think activity would be miles going in or out of a KF account. If no miles are transacted (no miles Y fare) then that is no activity. As a side note, SQ have introduced more miles earning opportunities on economy travel.

Again for the record, KF call centre told me "anything which shows on your activity statement" is considered activity. Obviously this would include points-earning flights, award flights and CC redemptions, but I can also confirm from personal experience that this includes non-points-earning flights in discount Y.

Thanks again for your help / answers.

 

[wafliron]

I can see via the online booking tool that it lets you book one fligh and waitlist another, as you've suggested. However, I can't seem to get it to allow me to book one flight and waitlist for the same flight.

e.g. I'm looking at a MEL-SIN-CDG later in the year. The 10.15am MEL-SIN is showing Waitlist for Saver and Available for Standard, and the SIN-CDG later in the day is showing Available for Saver. What I want to do is book the 10.15am Standard and SIN-CDG Saver so I know I have confirmed seats, and then waitlist for the 10.15am MEL-SIN Saver (the same flight I've already booked a Standard on). I can't seem to make this work - I can book 10.15am MEL-SIN Standard and SIn-CDG Saver and then Waitlist for, e.g., the ~4pm MEL-SIN, but not the 10.15am Saver.

Does that make sense? The KF call centre told me it was possible, but I can't figure out how to do it.

I just tried again to do this as I now have enough points in my account for the redemption (figured it might be offered on a later page of the booking process) but I still couldn't figure it out.

I wanted to book the available flights ASAP so I don't miss out on them, so what I did was:

- select one flight combo of available J Saver on SQ238 (10.15am depature MEL-SIN) and available J Standard on SQ334 (I got mixed up about which flight Saver was available on in my above post)
- select another flight combo of waitlist J Saver on SQ228 (3.45 departure MEL-SIN) and waitlist J Saver on SQ334

I did this thinking if the waitlist on the latter combo clears I might be able to ring KF and get them to combine the "available" (and hopefully now confirmed) J Saver on SQ238 with the newly-cleared, originally-waitlisted J Saver on SQ334, whilst simultaneously cancelling the "available" / confirmed J Standard on SQ334 and disgarding the newly-cleared, originally-waitlisted J Saver on SQ228.

After I setup the above booking and proceeded it asked for my personal details and then went to a screen confirming my waitlist, without asking for payment for taxes & surcharges, etc.

Have I done this correctly? Is my first combo of flights (SQ238 J Saver and SQ334 J Standard) definitely now locked in and confirmed for me - no one else can snaffle them, and I definitely have a seat even if the waitlisted flights don't clear? I'm a bit nervous as it only said "waitlist confirmed", not "some flights confirmed and some waitlisted" or similar. Sorry if this is a dumb question but this is my first-ever KrisFlyer award redemption.

I also just checked the booking via "Manage a Booking" on SQ's website and it appears to show a confirmation on SQ238 and SQ334 (plus a waitlist on SQ228 and another waitlist on SQ334, in addition to the confirmed entry) which gives me some comfort, but I thought it couldn't hurt to double check.

Thanks.

 

[albatross710]

I just tried again to do this as I now have enough points in my account for the redemption (figured it might be offered on a later page of the booking process) but I still couldn't figure it out.

I wanted to book the available flights ASAP so I don't miss out on them, so what I did was:

- select one flight combo of available J Saver on SQ238 (10.15am depature MEL-SIN) and available J Standard on SQ334 (I got mixed up about which flight Saver was available on in my above post)
- select another flight combo of waitlist J Saver on SQ228 (3.45 departure MEL-SIN) and waitlist J Saver on SQ334

I did this thinking if the waitlist on the latter combo clears I might be able to ring KF and get them to combine the "available" (and hopefully now confirmed) J Saver on SQ238 with the newly-cleared, originally-waitlisted J Saver on SQ334, whilst simultaneously cancelling the "available" / confirmed J Standard on SQ334 and disgarding the newly-cleared, originally-waitlisted J Saver on SQ228.

After I setup the above booking and proceeded it asked for my personal details and then went to a screen confirming my waitlist, without asking for payment for taxes & surcharges, etc.

Have I done this correctly? Is my first combo of flights (SQ238 J Saver and SQ334 J Standard) definitely now locked in and confirmed for me - no one else can snaffle them, and I definitely have a seat even if the waitlisted flights don't clear? I'm a bit nervous as it only said "waitlist confirmed", not "some flights confirmed and some waitlisted" or similar. Sorry if this is a dumb question but this is my first-ever KrisFlyer award redemption.

I also just checked the booking via "Manage a Booking" on SQ's website and it appears to show a confirmation on SQ238 and SQ334 (plus a waitlist on SQ228 and another waitlist on SQ334, in addition to the confirmed entry) which gives me some comfort, but I thought it couldn't hurt to double check.

Thanks.

You are in new territory for me. I've not tried the standard/saver waitlist method.

I've never been able to book a flight and then waitlist for lower miles redemption. Please let me know if you work it out.

 

[wafliron]

You are in new territory for me. I've not tried the standard/saver waitlist method.

I've never been able to book a flight and then waitlist for lower miles redemption. Please let me know if you work it out.

No worries - will do.

Based on what SQ's website is showing when I "manage my booking" I think what I did has given the desired outcome:



Assuming it's as straight-forward as it appears, this seems to show a confirmation on SQ238 & SQ334, and a waitlist on SQ228 & SQ334. It doesn't show the fact that the waitlist on SQ334 is for a Saver seat, but I assume that's in there behind-the-scenes somewhere otherwise there wouldn't be any point showing me a Confirmed and Waitlist for the same SQ334 flight. One more thing I'm not clear on is whether both the SQ228 Saver and SQ334 Saver need to clear for those to be offered to me (as they were selected together as one itinerary), or whether a clearing of the waitlist on either (independently) is possible. Hopefully it's the latter as that should increase the chances of the SQ334 Saver fare (the only one of the two I want) clearing.

I'm going to call KF customer service tomorrow to confirm.

 

[prozac]

5)Is it possible to mix fare classes in an award booking - e.g. MEL-SIN-CDG with MEL-SIN in F and SIN-CDG in J? If so, how do you calculate the points cost - as a separate MEL-SIN and SIN-CDG, or some other way?

No it is not possible to mix fare classes on an award booking. If you wish to do so it must be done as individual award bookings for the different sectors. I doubt that would be an economical use of points.

6)What KF miles / tier miles are earned for award flights / upgrades? I'm assuming nothing for award flights and original-fare-class miles / tier miles for upgrades as per most airlines, but thought it couldn't hurt to confirm.

No miles earned on an award booking.

 

[wafliron]

Thanks for confirming those two points prozac, appreciate it.

 

[wafliron]

I'm going to call KF customer service tomorrow to confirm.

OK, so I called KF and they confirmed I've achieved the outcome I wanted: I'm confirmed on SQ238 (J Saver), confirmed on SQ334 (J Standard) and also waitlisted on SQ334 (J Saver). I got them to drop the SQ228 waitlist completely as I never wanted it, it was just the only way I could select SQ334 twice (once J Saver waitlist and once J Standard confirmed).

So there you go: you can confirm a Standard and waitlist a Saver on the same flight, you just have to go a bit of a roundabout way to do it on their website.

One final question: the KF rep told me if my waitlist clears I only have a matter of hours to confirm it or else it may disappear again - is that correct? How long do you have to accept a confirmed waitlist before you lose it?

 

[Pollywaffle]

One final question: the KF rep told me if my waitlist clears I only have a matter of hours to confirm it or else it may disappear again - is that correct? How long do you have to accept a confirmed waitlist before you lose it?

Well, they'll send you an SMS so you don't need to be a slave to your email.

As for times, I am not sure. I got an SMS confirming my waitlisted flight at exactly 22:00 on 20 Jan this year. The SMS said that I need to confirm acceptance by "20Jan12 19:00 hours (GMT+8)".

I am still trying to figure that one out.

Congrats on getting your flights.

 

[wafliron]

Well, they'll send you an SMS so you don't need to be a slave to your email.

I actually elected for e-mail as I was concerned about a SMS sent from overseas not arriving (can be an issue with some automated SMS systems)... probably a bit foolish in hindsight given the scale of SQ's operation, I will call back and switch back to SMS.

As for times, I am not sure. I got an SMS confirming my waitlisted flight at exactly 22:00 on 20 Jan this year. The SMS said that I need to confirm acceptance by "20Jan12 19:00 hours (GMT+8)".

I am still trying to figure that one out.

Haha Hope you still had time to confirm your waitlist at least?

Congrats on getting your flights.

Thanks! Now hopefully the waitlist will also clear and save me ~30k points.

What sort of timeframe have people been getting their waitlists cleared in? I've read a few people saying their typical experience is that if the waitlist doens't clear in the first couple of weeks after joining the waitlist, it normally doesn't clear. Does that align with the experiences of people in here?

 

[burmans]

You are in new territory for me. I've not tried the standard/saver waitlist method.

I've never been able to book a flight and then waitlist for lower miles redemption. Please let me know if you work it out.

No but I believe you can do the opposite as waitlist does not take the points, i.e. waitlst preferred and book a backup. May be costs involved though.