Customer v Call Centre reward availability + what would you do in my situation?

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FlyingFiona

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I have been having a terrible terrible time trying to book a BC reward flight from Europe to Melbourne in June. Anytime I've found available routing and gone to book it I've got as far as the step before payment and then received an error code saying they are unable to confirm my flights, please start over. This has happened over several days and with several different routing options.

Next course of action. Ring the call centre for assistance. "I'm sorry madam but there is no BC available on those flights." "Then why can I see them?" "Our systems are more up to date in terms of availability of seating than yours." Ok back to the search and find and attempted booking process and same error message. 24 hours later I call the call centre again.

"I'm sorry madam but there is no BC available on those flights." "Then why can I see them?" "I don't know....let me place you on hold." Meanwhile I actually decided to split the bookings into two segments CDG-DXB-SIN and then SIN-MEL. I successfully book the SIN-MEL leg while on hold and tell her this when she returns. She has no idea why (she has no idea about anything!). So I asked if she can now book me on the CDG-DXB-SIN leg and add it to that booking. No. Can I book it and she merge the bookings. No. She can only "link" them in the system. Does this mean I can be booked all the way through from CDG? She doesn't know.

So I've now got two different bookings which are apparently "linked." Which is clearly not ideal.

My three questions to you all are:

1) Does anyone know whether I be booked all the way through from CDG? Or would I have to clear Singapore customs and then recheck in etc? (I have a 5 hour stop in SIN so the chances of missing the flight because of late arrival of the previous flight is slim - but having to clear Singapore customs in Covid times is a whole other world of pain I don't want to undertake.)

2) Would you pursue Qantas to rebook this as one ticket? If so how? (Because those call centre people knowing absolutely NOTHING and I don't know how to get a hold of someone with actual knowledge of Qantas systems.)

3) Why on earth can't Qantas see availability on their systems when I've just proven by booking while on hold to them that there is?
 
I'm not an expert on this, but you may have fallen victim to a concept called "married segments"?

Is it the same flight number between DXB-SIN-MEL? I have a vague recollection that EK had flights to Australia that stopped in SIN.

If it is the same flight number then it could be a case where the airline allocates X number of seats for DXB-MEL, Y Number of seats DXB-SIN and Z number of seats SIN-MEL. While there may be availability in the award class for DXB-SIN and SIN-MEL segments there is possibly zero availability for the DXB-MEL allocation in that booking class.

I seem to recall the QF engine is not very good at identifying this when trying to book online and will imply that you can book a straight through DXB-MEL ticket but in actual fact the only way to do it is as two separate bookings, as you may have found out.

I'm not sure what your best course of action is in this case. Other than have the two separate bookings and hope that QF can link them together so check-in and through checked luggage is a seamless process. It might be costing you more in terms of points and fees/taxes. You could try arguing with QF for some reimbursement of the extra points/dollars spent (I'd suggest via email with screen shots if you have them) that the system showed you availability for the straight through booking but due to an error in their system you had to make two separate bookings.
 
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I'm having trouble figuring out what "BC" means in this thread, but it's been reported in many threads here that the outsourced Mindpearl call centres (South Africa and Fiji) do not have a view of all reward availability - the reasons aren't clear. However the actual Qantas operated call centres in Hobart and Auckland generally can see the same availability as the web site. Worse, the Mindpearl agents are told to insist they can see the full availability when this is clearly false, which leads to many experiences like the one you've seen (even if it wasn't the "married segment" issue that @Isolar mentions). If you know someone who has a platinum frequent flyer card, you can call using their card number and it's more likely to be routed to the AU/NZ based call centres (the Hobart one seems to be consistently the best and is typically where "Premium" calls are routed, although apparently this isn't guaranteed). See the various other thread on the shambles that is the QF call centre management.
 
I'm not an expert on this, but you may have fallen victim to a concept called "married segments"?

Is it the same flight number between DXB-SIN-MEL? I have a vague recollection that EK had flights to Australia that stopped in SIN.

If it is the same flight number then it could be a case where the airline allocates X number of seats for DXB-MEL, Y Number of seats DXB-SIN and Z number of seats SIN-MEL. While there may be availability in the award class for DXB-SIN and SIN-MEL segments there is possibly zero availability for the DXB-MEL allocation in that booking class.

I seem to recall the QF engine is not very good at identifying this when trying to book online and will imply that you can book a straight through DXB-MEL ticket but in actual fact the only way to do it is as two separate bookings, as you may have found out.

I'm not sure what your best course of action is in this case. Other than have the two separate bookings and hope that QF can link them together so check-in and through checked luggage is a seamless process. It might be costing you more in terms of points and fees/taxes. You could try arguing with QF for some reimbursement of the extra points/dollars spent (I'd suggest via email with screen shots if you have them) that the system showed you availability for the straight through booking but due to an error in their system you had to make two separate bookings.
Thanks for your thoughts, Isolar!

It's EK to SIN then QF from there.

Yes, higher points than a direct flight, but there are none of those anywhere, except with CX which is what I was changing from (to avoid HKG). I'm accepting of that, I just don't know the issues a "married"/"linked" ticket can throw up (eg how will it play out in the joining city SIN).

I refuse to believe Qantas can't ticket this as one ticket (as the operator claimed)...but how to actually achieve that is another matter!

Sigh.
 
I'm having trouble figuring out what "BC" means in this thread, but it's been reported in many threads here that the outsourced Mindpearl call centres (South Africa and Fiji) do not have a view of all reward availability - the reasons aren't clear. However the actual Qantas operated call centres in Hobart and Auckland generally can see the same availability as the web site. Worse, the Mindpearl agents are told to insist they can see the full availability when this is clearly false, which leads to many experiences like the one you've seen (even if it wasn't the "married segment" issue that @Isolar mentions). If you know someone who has a platinum frequent flyer card, you can call using their card number and it's more likely to be routed to the AU/NZ based call centres (the Hobart one seems to be consistently the best and is typically where "Premium" calls are routed, although apparently this isn't guaranteed). See the various other thread on the shambles that is the QF call centre management.
Thanks, JPP42!

Business Class (no idea what a rewards ticket = in terms of letter class so I just reverted to genre!)

Yes, I've been following the call centre thread. Sadly, I know no one with a premium status to be able to get through to the AU/NZ centres. :(
 
I refuse to believe Qantas can't ticket this as one ticket (as the operator claimed)...but how to actually achieve that is another matter!
The information is correct in that the 2 tickets cannot be combined into 1. Sounds like you had bad luck with the agent, if you had the booking SIN-MEL they should have been able to add the other sectors in. This is a rewards booking that started SIN-SYD (J) when the EK flights became available added CDG-DXB (F), the following day added DXB-SIN (F) and also changed SYD to MEL. This is the confirmation.
Screen Shot 2022-02-15 at 2.04.41 pm (1).jpeg
 
The information is correct in that the 2 tickets cannot be combined into 1. Sounds like you had bad luck with the agent, if you had the booking SIN-MEL they should have been able to add the other sectors in. This is a rewards booking that started SIN-SYD (J) when the EK flights became available added CDG-DXB (F), the following day added DXB-SIN (F) and also changed SYD to MEL. This is the confirmation.
View attachment 270937
😤 I asked her to add the other sectors in (I booked that section after the call) and she said she can't. "It's not possible."

So what's the chance of being successful in calling and ask them to cancel and then immediately add them into the first booking?
 
My bad terminology. They could, surely, cancel the booking and immediately rebook as one ticket? (Not that I want to risk that with the dodgy call centres.)
No, because once it's cancelled the inventory may not be available again to sell it back in.

Just go to the transfer desk in SIN, easily done.
 
No, because once it's cancelled the inventory may not be available again to sell it back in.

Just go to the transfer desk in SIN, easily done.
Ta!

So no need to clear customs and all that jazz - I'll be treated like a transit passenger?
 
@FlyingFiona if you are concerned about being checked through and baggage interlining this will not be an issue as it is part of the partnership agreement. Transit in DXB will not be an issue, normally SIN would not be an issue however at the moment I believe you can only transit SIN if on the same ticket. There have be comments on this subject this and other sites.
 
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@FlyingFiona if you are concerned about being checked through and baggage interlining this will not be an issue as it is part of the partnership agreement. Transit in DXB will not be an issue, normally SIN would not be an issue however at the moment I believe you can only transit SIN if on the same ticket. There have be comments on this subject this and other sites.
Thanks, thanks helpful. I'll do some more searching on transiting in SIN on different tickets as I missed seen those threads. I guess having to go through rigmarole when I'm there is one way to help pass the five hour layover! (But that's reassuring to know that the baggage will be checked through at least.)
 
Ta!

So no need to clear customs and all that jazz - I'll be treated like a transit passenger?

What *might* be possible is that if there is still availability on either of the sectors is to get the agent to open the other matching booking and get that changed to include the sector, then cancel your other ticket.

So if CDG-SIN still has availability, get the agent to open your SIN-MEL and add CDG-SIN.

If SIN-MEL still has availability, get the agent to open the CDG-SIN and add SIN-MEL.

Then cancel the ticket you no longer want.

It will require you to have enough points to add the sector in.

There's no cancellation or change costs at the moment.

'Linking' of bookings is, as I understand it, nothing very secure. The linking is there but you will probably still have to tell the agent at check-in to look for it. There's no 'flashing light' to indicate another linked booking in the reservation.
 
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What *might* be possible is that if there is still availability on either of the sectors is to get the agent to open the other matching booking and gat that changed to include the sector, then cancel your other ticket.

So if CDG-SIN still has availability, get the agent to open your SIN-MEL and add CDG-SIN.

If SIN-MEL still has availability, get the agent to open the CDG-SIN and add SIN-MEL.

Then cancel the ticket you no longer want.

It will require you to have enough points to add the sector in.

There's no cancellation or change costs at the moment.

'Linking' of bookings is, as I understand it, nothing very secure. The linking is there but you will probably still have to tell the agent at check-in to look for it. There's no 'flashing light' to indicate another linked booking in the reservation.
Ohhh good thinking! Now just to get through to someone who can/will do it!

I have hope again!!!! 😆🤞
 
@FlyingFiona if you are concerned about being checked through and baggage interlining this will not be an issue as it is part of the partnership agreement. Transit in DXB will not be an issue, normally SIN would not be an issue however at the moment I believe you can only transit SIN if on the same ticket. There have be comments on this subject this and other sites.

Noting that the OP is travelling in June, one could hope that Singapore will have removed some of these silly rules by then. Why they can't just check your eligibility for onward travel at a transfer check-in desk is beyond me.
 
Noting that the OP is travelling in June, one could hope that Singapore will have removed some of these silly rules by then. Why they can't just check your eligibility for onward travel at a transfer check-in desk is beyond me.
I agree the rules are silly and also hope they will change (I'm also planning to transit there in a few months).

However, while the current rules are in place, there is a valid reason for insisting on a single ticket. If someone has 2 separate bookings, and the first flight is delayed to such an extent that they miss the connection, the airline operating the connecting flight would have no obligation to look after them (and they most likely wouldn't). You would then have a passenger in Changi, who has no onward flight booking, potentially no right to enter Singapore, and potentially not even any right to move around the airport (currently lots of transiting passengers are brought straight from flight 1 to a "holding area" until their next flight - it depends on where you have come from/where you have been etc). That would obviously be an absolute nightmare for all concerned, so I can see why they have made it impossible for that situation to arise.

Obviously being all on a single ticket doesn't necessarily prevent a missed connection, but at least it places an obligation on the airline to sort out an alternative.
 
Noting that the OP is travelling in June, one could hope that Singapore will have removed some of these silly rules by then. Why they can't just check your eligibility for onward travel at a transfer check-in desk is beyond me.
From what I have read all this information needs to be presented at check in. Cannot say with 100% certainty but if you do not have the correct paperwork if transiting SIN it could be that the OP is denied boarding in CDG. We cancelled our April plans and also cancelled the trip I posted above and decided to go to the US and Canada, not sure if it will be much different but will see what happens.
 
So I've now got two different bookings which are apparently "linked." Which is clearly not ideal.

My three questions to you all are:

1) Does anyone know whether I be booked all the way through from CDG? Or would I have to clear Singapore customs and then recheck in etc? (I have a 5 hour stop in SIN so the chances of missing the flight because of late arrival of the previous flight is slim - but having to clear Singapore customs in Covid times is a whole other world of pain I don't want to undertake.)

2) Would you pursue Qantas to rebook this as one ticket? If so how? (Because those call centre people knowing absolutely NOTHING and I don't know how to get a hold of someone with actual knowledge of Qantas systems.)

3) Why on earth can't Qantas see availability on their systems when I've just proven by booking while on hold to them that there is?

Linking does absolutely zilch. Emirates and Qantas systems won't even see the PNRs as linked.

1. In this case the standard rule is you will need to meet the requirements to enter SIN. Currently passengers coming from Dubai are only allowed to enter SIN subject to serving home quarantine.

There's no guarantee that EK will allow boarding since you're on separate tickets. Currently SIN doesn't really allow for separate ticket transiting at the moment either. It has been this way for nearly 2 years now.

2. Yes. Unfortunately if you have no status you will have to stick it out with the contact centre. You could try social media too.

3. You looked at the availability as two separate journeys - this does not constitute availability the entire way from Paris to Melbourne.

I agree the rules are silly and also hope they will change (I'm also planning to transit there in a few months).

However, while the current rules are in place, there is a valid reason for insisting on a single ticket. If someone has 2 separate bookings, and the first flight is delayed to such an extent that they miss the connection, the airline operating the connecting flight would have no obligation to look after them (and they most likely wouldn't). You would then have a passenger in Changi, who has no onward flight booking, potentially no right to enter Singapore, and potentially not even any right to move around the airport (currently lots of transiting passengers are brought straight from flight 1 to a "holding area" until their next flight - it depends on where you have come from/where you have been etc). That would obviously be an absolute nightmare for all concerned, so I can see why they have made it impossible for that situation to arise.

Obviously being all on a single ticket doesn't necessarily prevent a missed connection, but at least it places an obligation on the airline to sort out an alternative.

100% correct. Liabilities are a major issue and have been since the pandemic started.

From what I have read all this information needs to be presented at check in. Cannot say with 100% certainty but if you do not have the correct paperwork if transiting SIN it could be that the OP is denied boarding in CDG.

Correct.

No, because once it's cancelled the inventory may not be available again to sell it back in.

Just go to the transfer desk in SIN, easily done.

This isn't permitted and hasn't been permitted during covid.

Noting that the OP is travelling in June, one could hope that Singapore will have removed some of these silly rules by then. Why they can't just check your eligibility for onward travel at a transfer check-in desk is beyond me.

The rule has always been that you should be denied boarding at the origin so that you do not end up with a situation where you are denied boarding whilst en-route. If you are denied boarding whilst en-route, you cannot get a refund on the segments you've already flown (which serves no purpose since you can't get to your destination), whereas if you are denied boarding at the origin it's much easier to get a refund.
 
I agree the rules are silly and also hope they will change (I'm also planning to transit there in a few months).

However, while the current rules are in place, there is a valid reason for insisting on a single ticket. If someone has 2 separate bookings, and the first flight is delayed to such an extent that they miss the connection, the airline operating the connecting flight would have no obligation to look after them (and they most likely wouldn't). You would then have a passenger in Changi, who has no onward flight booking, potentially no right to enter Singapore, and potentially not even any right to move around the airport (currently lots of transiting passengers are brought straight from flight 1 to a "holding area" until their next flight - it depends on where you have come from/where you have been etc). That would obviously be an absolute nightmare for all concerned, so I can see why they have made it impossible for that situation to arise.

Obviously being all on a single ticket doesn't necessarily prevent a missed connection, but at least it places an obligation on the airline to sort out an alternative.

I get all of this, but my point is that it's all a bit silly. Hopefully by June they will have removed ALL of this stuff, and even if someone was denied boarding, it would just be more revenue for Singapore for an unplanned stopover, really. Almost everyone in the world has the ability to enter Singapore without a visa in the pre-Covid setup and I'm saying I hope they go back to this sooner rather than later, given the dubious public health benefit of many of their current rules.
 
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