Daylight flights into Australia

[fjc]

A friend and I considering a DONE4 about April / May 2011, preferably flying westwards. We don't want to fly overnight unless unavoidable.

No problems flying to Europe and North America, but we're having difficulty finding OW daylight flights back into Oz. The only one we can see is SIN/SYD on QF32 but we don't seem to be able to get to SIN from USA / Canada in daylight hours.

The trip is for a holiday, from Australian east coast to London, then USA and Canada and back to Oz, staying with family and friends most of the way. Asia will only be stopovers.

We're flexible on exit port Canada / USA, flexible on stopover port on way back, and flexible on Australian entry port. My home port is SYD and hers is BNE, but CNS, PER, MEL all acceptable provided it fits with OW rules.

This problem has been bugging us for some months. Any suggestions?

Many thanks.

 

[Hawkeye]

Since the demise of QF8 around 3 years ago, which used to depart LAX early afternoon, and arrive in SYD late evening, there have been no daytime flights from US to Aus.

Your best bet is SFO/LAX-HKG on CX, of which there is at least one daytime flight each day. From there, you could do CX into SYD, or QF30 to MEL. Your other option is a nice 4 hr lunch-time flight HKG-SIN, a quick overnight in SIN, followed by QF32 to SYD. This would count as a transit as < 24 hrs.

Anyway, some ideas for you think on.

 

[Hawkeye]

Oops ... I should add that YVR-HKG on CX would also fit the bill if wishing to leave from Canada.

 

[markis10]

Since the demise of QF8 around 3 years ago, which used to depart LAX early afternoon, and arrive in SYD late evening, there have been no daytime flights from US to Aus.

What about QF4 HNL-SYD, should not be too hard to get a DOM flight to HNL, QF4 might even be on an A333 by that time!

 

[drron]

For a DONE you would have to fly straight through to Europe on the one flight number.Then coming back you can fly from the USA to HKG,NRT or ORD-PVG on AA which all can have daylight flights then on to SIN and QF32.
If you have stopped over in Asia on the way to Europe you cant come back from the USA via asia.Of course flying direct to Europe means a night flight but at least the first and last of the trip.

 

[Hawkeye]

I've never tested this, but I had til now been "fairly" certain that a transit without stopover on the Aus-Europe was also allowed, and you didn't need all one flight number.

Having said that, I do recall a lot of debate about the double entry rule into Asia some time ago.

If this was the case, and you have a real aversion to overnighters, you could do something like QF127 SYD-HKG, overnight in HK, followed by QF29 or a daytime CX flight the next day.

 

[simonsyd]

What about QF4 HNL-SYD, should not be too hard to get a DOM flight to HNL, QF4 might even be on an A333 by that time!

Maybe an A330 but with a big orange thing on the tail!

 

[kamchatsky]

Maybe an A330 but with a big orange thing on the tail!

Avoid at all costs!

 

[trooper]

What's wrong with flying overnight?

Especially in C!!

 

[markis10]

Maybe an A330 but with a big orange thing on the tail!

QF and JQ do depart the same day ex HNL once in a while, comes in handy for JQ when they dont have a plane

 

[pauly7]

Maybe an A330 but with a big orange thing on the tail!

Actually QF have Hawaii earmarked for a QF metal A330 with skybeds next year which was what the poster was referring to.

 

[docjames]

I've never tested this, but I had til now been "fairly" certain that a transit without stopover on the Aus-Europe was also allowed, and you didn't need all one flight number.

Having said that, I do recall a lot of debate about the double entry rule into Asia some time ago.

.

As per http://www.oneworld.com/content/library/oneworld explorer fare rule.pdf
Rule 4 (e)

Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each
continent except as follows:

1. <snip as rules Nth America>
2.
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single
plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.

Now, i guess it depends on your ruling of "direct single plane service" - implies to me a flight number with routing eg. MEL-LHR QF29 (all one flight number) - which may stop the ability to take all day-only flights as per the OP's issue.

​

 

[serfty]

The "transfer without stopover" clause is separate in application to the "direct single plane service" rule.

The following xONE4 routings* are all valid (according to the oneworld xONEx online booking tool):

• MEL-LHR-JFK-LAX-MEL (xONE4 as Asia is transited on either QF9[SIN] or QF29[HKG] with the "direct single
  plane service" rule).
• MEL-LHR-JFK-LAX-NRT-SYD-MEL (xONE4 as Asia is transited on either QF9[SIN] or QF29[HKG] with the "direct single
  plane service" rule, Stopover at NRT).
• MEL-xHKG-NRT-LAX-JFK-LHR-NRT-MEL (Stopover in NRT, one "transfer without stopover" to EUR at HKG).
• MEL-HKG-NRT-LAX-JFK-LHR-xNRT-MEL (Stopover in HGK, one "transfer without stopover" to EUR at NRT).
• MEL-xHKG-JFK-LHR-SIN-BKK-SYD-MEL (Stopover in SIN/BKK one "transfer without stopover" to N/A at HKG).

* -AAA-xBBB-CCC- means a transit between AAA and BBB with a stopover at CCC

 

[markis10]

What wrong with this sort of routing??

Sydney to Singapore
Monday, April 11, 2011

Departure: 15:50 Sydney, Australia - Kingsford Smith
Arrival: 21:55 Singapore, Singapore - Changi
Airline: Qantas Airways QF5 E
Boeing 747-400
Cabin Class: Business

Singapore to London
Tuesday, April 12, 2011

Departure: 10:10 Singapore, Singapore - Changi
Arrival: 14:05 Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International
Airline: Cathay Pacific CX736 E
Airbus Industrie A330
Cabin Class: Business

Change of plane required. Time between flights = 0:55.

Tuesday, April 12, 2011

Departure: 15:00 Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International
Arrival: 21:00 London, United Kingdom - Heathrow
Airline: Cathay Pacific CX253 E
Boeing 747-400
Cabin Class: Business

London to Toronto
Friday, April 15, 2011

Departure: 12:00 London, United Kingdom - Heathrow
Arrival: 14:40 Toronto, Canada - Pearson International
Airline: British Airways BA93 E
Boeing 777-200/300
Cabin Class: Business

Toronto to New York, NY
Sunday, April 17, 2011

Departure: 07:30 Toronto, Canada - Pearson International
Arrival: 09:15 New York, NY, USA - La Guardia
Airline: American Airlines AA4623 E
Canadair Regional Jet 700
Cabin Class: Business

New York, NY to Los Angeles, CA
Monday, April 18, 2011

Departure: 10:30 New York, NY, USA - John F Kennedy
Arrival: 13:35 Los Angeles, CA, USA - Los Angeles International
Airline: American Airlines AA19 E
Boeing 767-200/200ER
Cabin Class: Business

Los Angeles, CA to Honolulu, HI
Tuesday, April 19, 2011

Departure: 08:30 Los Angeles, CA, USA - Los Angeles International
Arrival: 11:15 Honolulu, HI, USA - Honolulu International
Airline: American Airlines AA31 E
Boeing 757-200/300
Cabin Class: First

Honolulu, HI to Sydney
Friday, April 22, 2011

Departure: 10:45 Honolulu, HI, USA - Honolulu International
Arrival: 17:25 +1 day(s) Sydney, Australia - Kingsford Smith
Airline: Qantas Airways QF4 E
Boeing 767-300/300ER
Cabin Class: Business

 

[fjc]

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions. I had missed QF4 HNL/SYD but now realise that it only flies 3 days a week.

We're now considering SYD/CNS/HKG/LHR/Toronto/JFK/LAX/HNL/SYD with a couple of other stops in the USA. This can all be done in daylight hours.

Once again, many thanks.

 

[docjames]

Sounds pretty good.

May we ask why daylight only? Jetlag? Fear of flying? Other?

 

[fjc]

May we ask why daylight only? Jetlag? Fear of flying? Other?

Definitely not fear of flying. I've been flying since I was about 2, and it doesn't worry me. Once had a flight SYD/TAM in a DC3 which couldn't land due to severe very storms. The old girl just about turned itself inside out as it bucked all over the place over the mountains.

My friend and I have both done the overnight drag when we've had to. However, as we will have time on our side, we plan to not push ourselves too hard. Unfortunately, age is catching up with us!

 

[PineappleSkip]

I'm with fjc

West is best! Daylight is best!

[ot a bit]

If you have stopped over in Asia on the way to Europe you cant come back from the USA via asia.

and if you stop opver <12 hrs it is not a stop over????

cheers skip

 

[Dave Noble]

What's wrong with flying overnight?

Especially in C!!

I find overnight flights are awful and do my best to avoid them even in F . Fly during the day and sleep in a bed at night is my preference unless no other option

Dave

 

[Flashback]

I'm with fjc

West is best! Daylight is best!

[ot a bit]

and if you stop opver <12 hrs it is not a stop over????

cheers skip

If less than 24 hours it is a transit rather than a stopover.