Decision is now made!

[Deleted member 29185]

Well, I've been griping far too much of late about Virgins new pricing impact on me. I've now just read QFs winter escape sale which has now sealed my decision to return 100% to BFOD over my preference for DJ.

My DJ flights booked pre June will requal DJ gold and my review date with QFF is July and with a few GLT flights required and QF specials BNE-GLT of $69, guess where they'll be going.

I was getting far to grumpy with DJ and now I feel so much better that I've made the decision. It'll most likely mean no more status for me (well post Nov 2013) but "thems the breaks".

I now might have to start reading the QF threads and look at how to best earn SCs in a bid to secure QF gold (or maybe not).

Sorry DJ, it's been fun (sometimes) but you've priced yourself out of the BFOD game for me, anyway.

 

[777]

Fair enough too if the price difference is really that much.

Personally i still generally find DJ is cheaper than QF. Just checked all the flights i need to book over coming months (mostly MEL-SYD and vv) and Virgin is considerably cheaper in all cases excluding the odd Jetstar flight if i was so inclined (i'm not although i am flying them to NTL this week).

It's worth noting that you wouldn't be getting that QANTAS fare to GLT if Virgin hadn't made their recent changes. Qantas' pricing and specials have only been introduced to protect market share now that Virgin are on the route. Competing on that route is part of the bigger picture changes at Virgin.

 

[Gio]

I have been looking to get a few DJ flights GLT-BNE return, but on all comparisons QF have had the better fare. I did most of my bookings for super 15 and wallabies at the end of last year through to the Argentina test at skilled in September. So this was through periods when there were no $69 QF fares.

 

[777]

I have been looking to get a few DJ flights GLT-BNE return, but on all comparisons QF have had the better fare. I did most of my bookings for super 15 and wallabies at the end of last year through to the Argentina test at skilled in September. So this was through periods when there were no $69 QF fares.

I would argue that GLT-BNE is fairly unique example to be generalising from. It's a route where Qantas historically charged exorbitant fares because they could, Virgin entered the market and Qantas responded by cutting their fares to a fraction of what they had been charging in a classic try-and-ward-off-the-new-entrant approach.

To argue that this is evidence that Virgin are overcharging because their fares are higher than the Qantas's suddenly heavily discounted fares misses the reason for the dynamic in the first place and ignores the fact that pretty much all the fares are a fraction of what they were 12 months ago.

Having said all that, i'm not arguing that you shouldn't take the better fare if there is a significant difference just that it's an odd example to use if your argument is that Virgin are somehow pricing too high.

 

[mavrick9]

Well, I've been griping far too much of late about Virgins new pricing impact on me. I've now just read QFs winter escape sale which has now sealed my decision to return 100% to BFOD over my preference for DJ..

I have made the same decision. Although I'm not going to spend hours searching to just save $20. But for a Xmas family trip to HBA - Virgins cost is just under $2000 compared to JET at around $1000. (and you could chance Tiger for $800)

With that extra $1000 odd, I can buy a QP membership. Just because I get Virgin lounge access, priority boarding (never used) and purple tags on my bags, SC's and extra Points, it still doesn't work out to be $1000 value.

So in most cases will now choose BFOD.

International is a different case. As you can use Virgin Status on Sing, Air NZ, Delta, and VA. This gives you good choice of airlines, heading out of Australia to choose the best priced flight from.

 

[oz_mark]

Seems completely reasonable to me. I have been using BVFOD (V for Value), which allows a small (subjective and a bit variable) premium for meal flights/trans-continentals, IFE and the like. Of late, it seems to have me flying one airline out, and another back home!

 

[Fruitcake]

QF stated yesterday in the AFR that they plan to flood the market with capacity in response to Virgin's capacity increases in order to make sure that QF/JQ continues to offer 65% of capacity. So there could be a bit of a fare war going on later in the year. The AFR notes that there's 20% more seats available for sale in September 2012 than there was in September 2011 (although I recall QF had already cut back a bit at that point due to industrial action?). And according to BITRE figures, business class fares have fallen to 1996 levels since DJ started offering J across the network.

For my travel patterns DJ continues to suit my budget (well... on the occasions I bother to price QF, which I only do when the DJ fare is especially egregious... my methodology is probably similar to oz_mark's 'BVFOD'), but that's because I rarely book less than two months in advance and can avoid travel over peak periods. I suspect that DJ's much smaller capacity means their cheap fare buckets empty much quicker than QF.

But by most reports the 'game change' strategy at DJ has brought about as many positive changes to the flying experience for QF pax as it has for DJ pax (due to the competition), which is a good thing for all consumers in the market, including swanning_it and others who fly QF when BFOD or some other criteria dictates.

 

[Nigelinoz]

QF stated yesterday in the AFR that they plan to flood the market with capacity in response to Virgin's capacity increases in order to make sure that QF/JQ continues to offer 65% of capacity

Yeah saw that article in Business Spectator today.-
Qantas says it will do whatever it takes in airline fight.

Qantas says it will do whatever it takes in airline fight | News | Business Spectator

Cheers
N'oz

 

[serfty]

The current QF domestic sale fares¹ are not too shabby ... back in the days when I had a lot of domestic travel I would have been snapping some up.



¹ "Winter Escape Sale"

 

[Justchecking]

I'm really surprised that consumers revel in 'price wars', sure short term you pick up some nice bargains. Long term one of the competitors usually falls by the wayside and you are back to the choice of one and whatever it is they feel like charging. Price war's aren't a good thing for the consumer. Having our nation flooded with cheap seats will only be temporary until someone goes out of business then it's back to those sky high fares and no choice about it. In the long run, it's actually much better to have median prices and choice. But the current consumer mode seems to be cheap at all costs, including the cost of choice.

On another note, where are QF going to find the extra aircraft to flood the market with? Are they going to use the old 747s domestically in a bid to out-do Virgin? If so, I hope it doesn't last a long time because it can't be cheap to utilise those aircraft on domestic routes. Or have they got secret aircraft order's up their sleeve? Given that their batch of 787s won't be flying Aus domestic afterall. Last reports had them stationed in SIN for Jet* use.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Just had a read of the responses and I agree with most (maybe all). I don't suggest for one minute that I won't be flying DJ ever again. I certainly will. But until now I've had an Oz Mark attitude of BVFOD (I love that term by the way, never heard it before but it suits to a tee). It's only been the "value" part of the equation that has seen me buy DJ over others (unlike 777, I'll be including all players including JQ and.....shudder....TT). I have certainly paid premium prices (and sometimes quite a premium) with the right side of my brain trying to convince the left that all DJs inclusions make it "value". Trouble is, it doesn't (well not always).

As for the price wars argument, DJ should win any price war with QF. They do operate with an advantage that the QF legacy carrier doesn't have. Back in the Compass Mk I & II days and Air Australia more recent days, they didn't have the capital to compete in long term air fare wars and it was history for them. DJ does have the abiltity (as was shown by years of operation in the red) and now they are very much positioned to be an Ansett rather than a Compass. QF aren't that silly to risk wholesale losses in a vain bid to push DJ out of the skies. But even if that were the case, what will be will be. I'm no multi-millionaire that can support a failing carrier just because not doing so may be costly into the future. If they're going to fail, they'll fail regardless of whether I throw my paltry dollars at them.

I'm solidly with Serfty's opinion here.......those QF fares are certainly not too shabby. If QF want to start a competitive push........bloody good. Bring it on, let DJ fight for their trophies (but they'd better bloody well hurry up with sorting out their issues.......warning, warning Will Robinson......)

Finally, to Fruitcakes comment, yes I've benefited (and continue to benefit) from the positive benefits DJ have implemented. I concede that and thank DJ for the initiatives that benefit me. Trouble is, the gloss for me is thin. It's already worn through and when I glimpse the reality through the blinding glare of marketing, I see....
a) family pooling - Yes helps me a few of times a year, but I requal gold regardless and not being one of the golden haired pets that attract the DJ double SC offers, it doesn't help me reach anywhere near plat......so upshot, a nice idea but that's about it.
b) fly ahead - Great! This is one of the true benefits for me. Worth dollars, but I lived without it for years and with cheap BFOD fares I can live without it again.
c) lounge access - Love it (although I loved the old lounges better). Worth money...yes, but as silver I can buy lounge access at a discount and I can buy QF access. Haven't yet put a $ value on lounge access but when I do ATA will feature in that calc......but for how long will we have ATA. QF enhancements are very much DJ strategy of late.
d) the rest of the benefits I can live with......or without. They're the gloss that don't feature highly in my estimations.
e) I won't go into the QF style enhancements, but the diminished Y menu, the Y fare skyrocketing and the lack of ife all weigh in to varying degrees of magnitude.

 

[JohnK]

And hoping I do not sound like a broken record but I find if commuting SYD-BNE that Qantas is cheaper most times except for peak periods where Virgin are cheaper. I also find that Qantas has more flight options on the cheaper red e-Deals where as Virgin cheap airfares seem to stop at around 3:00pm-4:00pm which does not suit me.

Now if I was commuting BNE-SYD it would be a different story but not one for me to worry about as that is not likely to eventuate.

 

[oz_mark]

And hoping I do not sound like a broken record but I find if commuting SYD-BNE that Qantas is cheaper most times except for peak periods where Virgin are cheaper. I also find that Qantas has more flight options on the cheaper red e-Deals where as Virgin cheap airfares seem to stop at around 3:00pm-4:00pm which does not suit me.

There are reasons most of my flying this year has been Qantas out and DJ back (or vice versa). Cost is the main one!

 

[travelislife]

And hoping I do not sound like a broken record but I find if commuting SYD-BNE that Qantas is cheaper most times except for peak periods where Virgin are cheaper. I also find that Qantas has more flight options on the cheaper red e-Deals where as Virgin cheap airfares seem to stop at around 3:00pm-4:00pm which does not suit me.

Now if I was commuting BNE-SYD it would be a different story but not one for me to worry about as that is not likely to eventuate.

Huh? Aren't you commuting both ways John? If you have to commute SYD-BNE then you are coming back BNE-SYD. Or are you implying that you only use the one airline for both sectors rather than mix it up?

 

[samh004]

The current QF domestic sale fares¹ are not too shabby ... back in the days when I had a lot of domestic travel I would have been snapping some up.



¹ "Winter Escape Sale"

Too bad there’s nothing on to LRE… have you been yet?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Too bad there’s nothing on to LRE… have you been yet?

Been there only once for work and the QF fares required the sale of a kidney. I drove.

 

[DC3]

I have made the same decision. Although I'm not going to spend hours searching to just save $20. But for a Xmas family trip to HBA - Virgins cost is just under $2000 compared to JET at around $1000. (and you could chance Tiger for $800)

With that extra $1000 odd, I can buy a QP membership. Just because I get Virgin lounge access, priority boarding (never used) and purple tags on my bags, SC's and extra Points, it still doesn't work out to be $1000 value .......

Yes, but isn't the decision really between either QF and DJ, or between either JQ and TT? QF and DJ offer a similar product, with generally a comparable price. If we fly JQ (or TT), it's not because we are looking at QF or DJ as a direct comparison with JQ (or TT), is it? We fly QF/DJ or QF/TT for other reasons.

 

[samh004]

Been there only once for work and the QF fares required the sale of a kidney. I drove.

serfty was going to fly there in November 2010 I think when a sale presented flights for $49, and I’ve seen them at $59 too, but the standard price is $183…

 

[MarkD]

Yes, but isn't the decision really between either QF and DJ, or between either JQ and TT? QF and DJ offer a similar product, with generally a comparable price. If we fly JQ (or TT), it's not because we are looking at QF or DJ as a direct comparison with JQ (or TT), is it? We fly QF/DJ or QF/TT for other reasons.

Sorry, but the QF and DJ product are not that similar. For me, DJ is similar to jetstar on all levels. QF is superior in almost all area. Now IF DJ could get their cough together, that would be a different story

 

[Ansett]

I have made the same decision. Although I'm not going to spend hours searching to just save $20. But for a Xmas family trip to HBA - Virgins cost is just under $2000 compared to JET at around $1000. (and you could chance Tiger for $800)

With that extra $1000 odd, I can buy a QP membership. Just because I get Virgin lounge access, priority boarding (never used) and purple tags on my bags, SC's and extra Points, it still doesn't work out to be $1000 value.

So in most cases will now choose BFOD.

International is a different case. As you can use Virgin Status on Sing, Air NZ, Delta, and VA. This gives you good choice of airlines, heading out of Australia to choose the best priced flight from.

Can you get Jet to price match Tiger? This will save you even more