Did Qantas Just order additional 12 787s (or is it Old news)?

[RSVKanga]

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Is this misinformation in that it’s just talking about the 24 August order or is it new?

9 January 2024

It has been revealed via the Boeing Orders & Deliveries page that Qantas has put in an order for 12 more Boeing 787 Dreamliners in December.

Such an order from Qantas was not made public by either side. This could be the case that this is a marginal top-up order, or that it will be unveiled by both sides later on this year.

What is also telling is the amount of aircraft sold to unidentified customers. This will no doubt form the foundation of the Boeing sales strategy throughout the course of this year, especially with the Farnborough Air Show on the way in July.

But for now, this order from the Australian carrier represents strong growth, with all eyes on what other details will follow from this in the meantime.

 

[justinbrett]

Lol, that’s a terrible source.

It was announced months ago.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/agency-news/agency-news-august-23/qantas-orders-more-aircraft-for-international-fleet.html

 

[Harrison_133]

The article is wrong. These are not additional orders.

The data they're using refers to the order that was made last year for 12 787s (4x -9s and 8x -10s).

It seems they've tried to spin a story by leeching onto Boeing's order book data which included the Qantas order in the December update. Similarly, Airbus just updated their order book data to reflect the additional A350s that were ordered.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Lol, that’s a terrible source.
It was announced months ago.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/agency-news/agency-news-august-23/qantas-orders-more-aircraft-for-international-fleet.html

The multi-billion dollar order is split between 12 Airbus A350s and 12 Boeing 787s arriving from FY27 into the next decade. The Group has also negotiated additional purchase right options, split evenly between both manufacturers, to give flexibility for future growth and ultimately replace its 10 A380s with A350s from around FY32 onwards. <snip>
About the order

• Firm order for four Boeing 787-9 and eight 787-10 aircraft, with deliveries starting in FY27.
• Firm order for 12 Airbus A350-1000s, with deliveries starting in FY28.
• Purchase right options split between Airbus and Boeing to complete A330 and A380 fleet replacement and provide for growth.
• Both orders include significant flexibility to adjust the timing of deliveries.

And in the very public QF web site newsroom (24 Aug 2023)

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-orders-more-aircraft-for-international-fleet/

• Firm order for 12 Airbus A350 and 12 Boeing 787 aircraft.
• Additional purchase right options for renewal and growth.
• Provides replacement for current A330 and A380 fleets over 10-plus years.

Airlines and lessors place firm orders and options.
Options (a place in the manufacturing queue) can be converted to firm orders, drop down the queue or left to lapse

 

[elanshin]

Also to consider - given their reputation situation right now and that one of the negative spin that's happened is the "aging fleet" they've been very vocal about any and all new aircrafts from orders to delivery.

I saw plenty of "New aircraft every 3 weeks" ads a few months ago all over Sydney.

 

[Saab34]

Analysts already raised capex concerns with the current outstanding orders over the coming decade, let alone trying to find a few more billion.

 

[oz_mark]

While an old order, it's interesting that Qantas announced in August, but Boeing didn't recognise it in their orders until December (unless it was languishing in the undisclosed customers bit for a while)

 

[NSun]

The order may have only entered the order book now but was first announced back in August so in that sense it is old news.

Still, I first saw this on Facebook and thought it was true for a moment because of all the aviation pages I follow, its only Executive Traveller that has a vehement habit of sharing/rehashing old news several months later. Seems this is another one to add to the list.

 

[RooFlyer]

Analysts already raised capex concerns with the current outstanding orders over the coming decade, let alone trying to find a few more billion.

AFFers pointed out ages ago that the billion-or-so share buyback was an odd deployment of capital in the face of the aircraft order.

 

[jb747]

I saw plenty of "New aircraft every 3 weeks" ads a few months ago all over Sydney.

Given that old aircraft generally have all required bolts, but there's doubt about the new ones, I don't know that I'd see that as a positive.

 

[RichardMEL]

Given that old aircraft generally have all required bolts, but there's doubt about the new ones, I don't know that I'd see that as a positive.

yeah I guess Joe Public wouldn't be aware that QF have NOT ordered any variant of the 737 Max. Whole other topic though.

 

[Quickstatus]

aging fleet

Well maybe an ageing fleet is not so bad after all, given that the current door plug issue is not an old aircraft issue.

Rocketman has demonstrated that new is not necessarily best - at least in the rocket industry. Reused rockets are increasingly seen as more reliable - because of proven launch history which new rockets do not have. (There was some discussion about whether space launch insurers offer lower premiums for used rocket launches - dont know what came of that).

 

[p--and--t]

Any airline that refuses to fly a new to type to see how it performs for minimum 12-24months gets my vote.

 

[Quickstatus]

Any airline that refuses to fly a new to type to see how it performs for minimum 12-24months gets my vote.

Well QF30 QF32 occured approx 3 years after the first A380 was delivered...
I dont know if there is valid " run in" period. All new types go through many hours of testing before being approved (assuming proper oversight)
Maybe the first several off the production due to the 'learning curve"?

 

[Himeno]

Well QF30 occured approx 3 years after the first A380 was delivered...
I dont know if there is valid " run in" period. All new types go through many hours of testing before being approved (assuming proper oversight)
Maybe the first several off the production due to the 'learning curve"?

I assume you mean QF32?
QF30 was an o2 bottle on a 747 out of HKG.

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

Wish those deliveries started a bit earlier . . .

 

[elanshin]

Wish those deliveries started a bit earlier . . .

So does QF I would guess.

 

[RSVKanga]

Any airline that refuses to fly a new to type to see how it performs for minimum 12-24months gets my vote.

What about QF72 then?

 

[p--and--t]

What about QF72 then?

What about it?

There is no way of avoiding latent hidden failure points forever (aka Windows and other software that come out all the time).

At least let someone else fly them for a couple of years to reduce the probability before putting your company reputation and operations at risk flying a new type (aka JT & ET).

BTW: the QF 72 incident was not aircraft type related AFAIAA

 

[elanshin]

What about it?

There is no way of avoiding latent hidden failure points forever (aka Windows and other software that come out all the time).

At least let someone else fly them for a couple of years to reduce the probability before putting your company reputation and operations at risk flying a new type (aka JT & ET).

BTW: the QF 72 incident was not aircraft type related AFAIAA

Iirc QF72 was effectively similar problems to the 737 MAX8 MCAS issue. A330 software decided that the plane was doing something unsafe from erranous data and thus took control and pitched down suddenly.