Help Me To Help Qantas!

[inpd]

Hi,

I'm a loyal Australian living in the U.S. I want to fly
QANTAS but ...

The last time and this time United have amazingly cheap
fares to Australia.

ie. I'm travelling in May on any Su/Mo/Tu and return
Su/Mo/Tu May-June for US$1100 JFK to MEL.

Qantas for the same route is US$1800 (ouch!)

Now Qantas has a better product since each seat has
its own TV but for 3 people its $3300 vs $5400 and
$2100 will buy a lot of portable DVD players AND
movies!

Am I missing some trick with QANTAS booking? I have
84,000 frequent flyer points and would like to fly another
trip so I can qualify for a free trip back home next time!

 

[NM]

That is pretty much the situation. Its all about supply and demand.

Qantas can fill most of their seats trans-Pacific so do not discount as heavily as UA, who sometimes struggle to get enough butts into their SYD/MEL services.

So it is also more likely that travelling on the days when UA is offering the really cheap fares that the UA flight will not be overly full, so perhaps a little more space to spread out with your portable DVD player.

 

[serfty]

I tried booking on AA.com using "all carriers" and "Economy with restrictions"; I found fares from JFK to SYD from US$1525.

Your Itinerary			?			
Carrier	Flight	Departing		Arriving		Aircraft
	Number	City	Date & Time	City	Date & Time	Type
						
	1	JFK New York	May 15, 2007	LAX Los Angeles	May 15, 2007	762
AMERICAN AIRLINES			09:00 AM		12:10 PM	
	108	LAX Los Angeles	May 15, 2007	SYD Sydney	May 17, 2007	744
QANTAS AIRWAYS			11:50 PM		07:25 AM	
						
	149	SYD Sydney	Jun 19, 2007	LAX Los Angeles	Jun 19, 2007	744
QANTAS AIRWAYS			09:45 AM		06:05 AM	
	180	LAX Los Angeles	Jun 19, 2007	JFK New York	Jun 20, 2007	762
AMERICAN AIRLINES			04:15 PM		12:40 AM	
	Fare Summary			?		
Average Fare Per Person -  1394.00 USD						
Passenger Type Used in Pricing	Fare per Person	Additional Taxes and Fees per Person	Total Price			
1  Adult	1394.00 USD	130.90 USD	1524.90 USD			
Total Price  			1524.90 USD

 

[NM]

Simply book on aa.com using "all carriers" and "Coach with restrictions"; I found fares from LAX to SYD from US$1215.

Hi Serfty, is that fare from JFK or LAX? The OP was comparing UA and QF fares JFK-MEL-JFK. But even extending to JFK is likely to be under the US$1800 quoted.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

On UA there is also more chance of a cheap or free upgrade at check in.

 

[NM]

On UA there is also more chance of a cheap or free upgrade at check in.

Yes, the going rate for an upgrade at checkin seems to be US$500. That would make it a very good value business class trip to MEL.

 

[oz_mark]

Wouldn't buying the more expensive Qantas ticket be helping Qantas?

 

[inpd]

Wouldn't buying the more expensive Qantas ticket be helping Qantas?

Ah. It was help ME to help QANTAS.

I find it amazing that the QANTAS product is that
more highly valued than United's.

The food is about the same, and cattle class
is cattle class even in top carriers like
Qantas or Singapore.

I've flown Qantas about dozen times b/w LAX and MEL and
the only real benefit I found was the entertainment system.

In addition I have Premier status with United which gives
me access to the economy plus seats which give me an extra
five inches of leg room which helps.

Oh well. I tried.

 

[NM]

I find it amazing that the QANTAS product is that
more highly valued than United's.

And which of the two airlines is in a better financial position due to its ability to sell higher priced fares?

In addition I have Premier status with United which gives
me access to the economy plus seats which give me an extra
five inches of leg room which helps.

Oh well. I tried.

I think I would take the extra 5" pitch on UA over the unreliable IFE on the Qantas.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

And which of the two airlines is in a better financial position due to its ability to sell higher priced fares?

I think I would take the extra 5" pitch on UA over the unreliable IFE on the Qantas.

The extra 5" is relative to UA non E+ economy. Relative to NZ economy on 747 it is only an extra 1-2".

 

[NM]

The extra 5" is relative to UA non E+ economy. Relative to NZ economy on 747 it is only an extra 1-2".

The price you pay for routing via AKL

Note: the QF price quoted by Serfty is also via AKL on QF26. The UA flight is via SYD. Hmm, now which is worse, transit in AKL or SYD .

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

The price you pay for routing via AKL

Note: the QF price quoted by Serfty is also via AKL on QF26. The UA flight is via SYD. Hmm, now which is worse, transit in AKL or SYD .

For me definitely transit in SYD, which is why I don't fly UA to/from USA. I lose half a day going to US via SYD, and more than half a day coming back as well.

 

[Altair]

The price you pay for routing via AKL

Note: the QF price quoted by Serfty is also via AKL on QF26. The UA flight is via SYD. Hmm, now which is worse, transit in AKL or SYD .

NZ in the 747 is probably the best Y seat in the world, well SQ has a fancy seat in the 777-300ER but tighter pitch and has CX deplyed theirs yet? The problem I have with NZ is WHY food being limited and the flight across the Tasman is the Tasman Express product, sorry rip-off...
Well does transiting SYD mean you still fly the UA 747 down to MEL?
Of course I would not take UA because of their inferior product unless I would like to have a retro themed flight eg. put on my hypercolour shirt for an 80's experience....probably the same FAs as well, well those that made it from PA and survived the UA furloughs....

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

NZ in the 747 is probably the best Y seat in the world, well SQ has a fancy seat in the 777-300ER but tighter pitch and has CX deplyed theirs yet? The problem I have with NZ is WHY food being limited and the flight across the Tasman is the Tasman Express product, sorry rip-off...
Well does transiting SYD mean you still fly the UA 747 down to MEL?
Of course I would not take UA because of their inferior product unless I would like to have a retro themed flight eg. put on my hypercolour shirt for an 80's experience....probably the same FAs as well, well those that made it from PA and survived the UA furloughs....

AFAIK no nonstop UA flight to MEL (or BNE for that matter).

 

[NM]

For me definitely transit in SYD, which is why I don't fly UA to/from USA. I lose half a day going to US via SYD, and more than half a day coming back as well.

But the OP's destination is MEL, not AKL. So the UA option will be JFK-SFO/LAX-SYD-MEL all on UA. The NZ option will be JFL-SFO/LAX on UA then SFO/LAX-AKL-MEL on NZ. The QF option will be JFK-LAX-AKL-MEL on QF.

So what is the cost for the NZ option? How does it compare to UA and QF? Can the UA fare be used for NZ operated flights?

NZ would be a good option if known to be confined to economy. But if the OP can use their UA status to score an upgrade, then that has to be the best option.

 

[Alan in CBR]

In addition I have Premier status with United which gives
me access to the economy plus seats which give me an extra
five inches of leg room which helps.

I think this puts us into "no-brainer" territory. Cheaper fare and lots of legroom - I think even Qantas would concede defeat on that one. Add to that the convenience of a one-plane service from the US to MEL, meaning an easy transit in SYD (including no need to clear customs, immigration and quaranting until MEL).

If I recall correctly, Premier doesn't give lounge access, but if you are a member of the Red Carpet Club that would skew the results even further towards UA (not that they need skewing at this point).

The only other option even worth considering is Air New Zealand, but even then it would probably need to be cheaper than UA to be in the running.

 

[inpd]

Son of a b**s***d.

As I was booking the fare on-line it
disappeared.

I'll just wait and see. Flying to Australia
in May is the low season point so hopefully
there will be cheaper fares.

NM and others one of the things I love about the U.S.
is that competition drives prices to new lows
and forces companies to innovate or perish.

Every year I fly to Europe for US$299 round
trip from JFK. It's only a seven hour trip but
this shows you how much profit QANTAS make
on their LAX-SYD/MEL/BNE trips. If the Australian
government allowed other *legitimately* interested
carriers fly this route the air fare would be
closer to US$700 which would benefit everyone
(tourist industry, restaraunts etc.) except for QANTAS.
I say legitimatly interested since Air Canda (even though
they have the rights) really do not intend to fly
non-stop to Australia any time soon as per their
LAX office. Now if they let Singapore into the market
watch how the QANTAS and United product quality increases
and price decreases. Competition is a wonderful thing
for the consumer!

Regards.

 

[alect]

Ah. It was help ME to help QANTAS.

I find it amazing that the QANTAS product is that
more highly valued than United's.

The food is about the same, and cattle class
is cattle class even in top carriers like
Qantas or Singapore.

I've flown Qantas about dozen times b/w LAX and MEL and
the only real benefit I found was the entertainment system.

In addition I have Premier status with United which gives
me access to the economy plus seats which give me an extra
five inches of leg room which helps.

Oh well. I tried.

The other benefit of UA (or NZ) is avoidance of TBIT in LAX (or LAX completely), as you would go through either T6/7 (UA) or T3 (NZ).

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

The other benefit of UA (or NZ) is avoidance of TBIT in LAX (or LAX completely), as you would go through either T6/7 (UA) or T3 (NZ).

The NZ lounge at LAX is very nice ^ T2 (NZ doesn't use T3 ) isn't so good for arrivals though - always seems to be huge immigration queues at the time of day NZ arrives.

 

[NM]

NM and others one of the things I love about the U.S.
is that competition drives prices to new lows
and forces companies to innovate or perish.

Every year I fly to Europe for US$299 round
trip from JFK. It's only a seven hour trip but
this shows you how much profit QANTAS make
on their LAX-SYD/MEL/BNE trips. If the Australian
government allowed other *legitimately* interested
carriers fly this route the air fare would be
closer to US$700 which would benefit everyone
(tourist industry, restaraunts etc.) except for QANTAS.
I say legitimatly interested since Air Canda (even though
they have the rights) really do not intend to fly
non-stop to Australia any time soon as per their
LAX office. Now if they let Singapore into the market
watch how the QANTAS and United product quality increases
and price decreases. Competition is a wonderful thing
for the consumer!

Regards.

I think it is much more complicated issue that just adding more carriers to drive down the fares. Often it is the same people who are demanding greater competition and lower fares that then complain when the airlines determine they need to send their aircraft maintencance to cheaper off-shore locations, or employ cabin crew based in countries where wages are lower, or change the in-flight service to paid meals or drinks, or reduce baggage allowances, or ...

If we want lower fares, we have ti be willing to accept that the operators need to reduce their costs. Its a complex issue and each aspect has an impact on another. And I don't think there is a simple "right" answer that will suit everyone (fare payers, passengers, staff, shareholders, politicians, me).