How to beat high fuel surcharges in Krisflyer?

[ansett7e7]

Okay. I know this topic has been discussed ad-infintum across numerous threads. It seems like a hot topic. I know we got stung on our last SQ redemption and I cried like a little baby .

So let's get a definitive discussion going in one thread about how to beat these 'scamcharges' (as one AFF post person termed fuel surcharges.)

I've seen that:

1. If you use NZ or UA trans-Pacific, it is more convenient than going via Singapore on SQ and fuel surcharges are cheaper to boot.
2. Most American airlines also have lower fuel-surcharges to :arrow: ????.
3. TG and LH to Urop have lower charges.

Is the above true? Please give examples of itineraries when pressing your case.

Any other opinions, experiences and comments greatly appreciated - probably by many :mrgreen:.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Okay. I know this topic has been discussed ad-infintum across numerous threads. It seems like a hot topic. I know we got stung on our last SQ redemption and I cried like a little baby .

.

Though if you flew in J or F perhaps your crying was offset by the clinking of champagne glasses after having started with a Singapore Sling combined with much lower Points cost if compared to QFF? Y redemptions are generally not so good on SQ though.

What matters is the overall points and $ cost....and how you earn your points. ie your earn to burn ratio.

US based airlines have low taxes, but for many if us it is hard to get points to them.

Some *A and Partner redemptions can offer lower taxes. But they may not be where you want to fly to.

 

[aikman]

The 15% points discount on SQ flights somewhat eases the pain.

While some airlines do have lower surcharges, TG and LH are not two of them. It’s hard to work out TG’s because they don’t separate the surcharge when they quote revenue fares so you won’t know what it is until Krisflyer gives you the quote.

I did a comparison a year or two ago and to go to Europe, Air China and Egyptair had slightly lower fuel surcharges but the difference to TG, SQ, etc wasn’t massive.

 

[Mal Ware]

Not trying to derail this thread but can you explain in a nutshell what you mean by the high fuel prices?

I don't know much about SQ, only that I have looked a few different flights to Asia ex BNE and the prices were better than QF.

 

[Austman]

Ticket prices often include Fuel Surcharges disguised as a 'tax'. These fuel surcharges can be higher than the base ticket cost! Qantas do it. Others airlines too. It's not a real tax at all but a fuel surcharge which many argue should be factored into the base price of a ticket. Fuel after all is an operational cost.

But when you use your FF points for a fee ticket they add these fuel 'taxes' as an extra cost, together with other 'real' taxes on top of the points needed.

 

[ansett7e7]

Though if you flew in J or F perhaps your crying was offset by the clinking of champagne glasses after having started with a Singapore Sling combined with much lower Points cost if compared to QFF? Y redemptions are generally not so good on SQ though.

What matters is the overall points and $ cost....and how you earn your points. ie your earn to burn ratio.

Ta lovetravellingoz. QFF Y redemptions? So you're saying that QFF points required are similar? So it's line ball between QFF and SQ? Say to Europe?

Earn most points with credit card on Westpac Krisflyer card. That gives us 1.5 pts for $1. Same for equivalent QFF card.

 

[dajop]

Not trying to derail this thread but can you explain in a nutshell what you mean by the high fuel prices?

I don't know much about SQ, only that I have looked a few different flights to Asia ex BNE and the prices were better than QF.

Australia - Europe/SE Asia, SQ has very similar fuel surcharges to MH, CX, and QF (to Europe and SIN they are slightly less than QF's)

SQ have horrific fuel surcharges between US and Singapore, so any routing via SIN from Australia to US will have crazy surcharging. Also Australia-North Asia will be higher than most competitors as Singapore-North Asia is in a higher fuel surcharging category, so non-stops from SYD on QF/others have lower surcharges.

However, compared to some (QF...) if you earn points through credit card, or flying without a status bonus they are palatable as "effective' points required are lower.

 

[ansett7e7]

The 15% points discount on SQ flights somewhat eases the pain.

While some airlines do have lower surcharges, TG and LH are not two of them. It’s hard to work out TG’s because they don’t separate the surcharge when they quote revenue fares so you won’t know what it is until Krisflyer gives you the quote.

I did a comparison a year or two ago and to go to Europe, Air China and Egyptair had slightly lower fuel surcharges but the difference to TG, SQ, etc wasn’t massive.

Well if the difference ain't massive I think I'll give Air China and Egyptair a miss. I think you'll agree. Any other tips?

 

[dajop]

Ta lovetravellingoz. QFF Y redemptions? So you're saying that QFF points required are similar? So it's line ball between QFF and SQ? Say to Europe?

Earn most points with credit card on Westpac Krisflyer card. That gives us 1.5 pts for $1. Same for equivalent QFF card.

To take MEL-LHR return. SQ requires 80,750 (booked online) +$905. QF requires 128,000 pts + $1060. What we don't know is how much QF will charge for EK redemptions when they come available, as EK do not charge fuel surcharges on award bookings.

 

[ansett7e7]

SQ have horrific fuel surcharges between US and Singapore, so any routing via SIN from Australia to US will have crazy surcharging. Also Australia-North Asia will be higher than most competitors as Singapore-North Asia is in a higher fuel surcharging category, so non-stops from SYD on QF/others have lower surcharges.

Would you believe that the US is exactly where we want to go?

So what's the solution? NZ or (please say no) UA via The Pacific?. Are Virgin Australia a redemption partner yet (since SQ recently became a part owner)? What about other *A via either Urop or Asia?

 

[ansett7e7]

To take MEL-LHR return. SQ requires 80,750 (booked online) +$905. QF requires 128,000 pts + $1060. What we don't know is how much QF will charge for EK redemptions when they come available, as EK do not charge fuel surcharges on award bookings.

Ahhh ha! We wait then. I hear the details will be announced in a few weeks - or not.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Ta lovetravellingoz. QFF Y redemptions? So you're saying that QFF points required are similar? So it's line ball between QFF and SQ? Say to Europe?

Earn most points with credit card on Westpac Krisflyer card. That gives us 1.5 pts for $1. Same for equivalent QFF card.

No, what I am saying is that in relative sense that J redemptions on SQ (and other *A) are great value when compared to QFF.

Both SQ and QFF in Y is not so good, though SQ is still better than QFF.

In J QFF is 280K. SQ is far less at 136-161.1K (depending where in Europe you want to go) after the 15% online discount.

 

[RooFlyer]

I think you are talking about a points redemption on krisflyer, ansett7e7, yes? I haven't done such, but have looked at redemptions on Air Canada aeroplan, a *A partner of SQ, and the lesson there is if you use Airline A's FF program to redeem flights on alliance partner B's metal, then the scamcharges A will charge you for the flight on B doesn't always follow Airline B's own practice. (I'll look this up and see if i can post edit with specific examples.)

There are examples cited in the AC forum of AC/Aeroplan making a scamcharge ("YQ", or fuel surcharge) for redeemed flights on airlines that don't charge YQ themselves (or at least not separately).

So the moral is that you should look at the individual proposition, rather than entirely relying on "Airline X doesn't charge fuel surcharge, so I can redeem it via KF no problems".

 

[ansett7e7]

Ahh you live and learn. So to recap:

1. J class redemption is much better value than Y class (coz J class is a higher dollar fare. That means similar scamcharges paid to Y have a positive bearing on perceived value. Am I right here?)
2. SQ charges less miles and gives 15% online discount so earn burn rate better than QFF. This makes one feel a little better about KF.
3. There's no such thing as picking a low scamcharge airline bec we should look at the individual route and FFLY programme.
4. Having said that, there's more competition among USA airlines so scamcharges are lower.
5. SQ's scamcharges are highest to US and North-Asia (TYO, HKG?) and similar to QF on Urop.

I think that's it. Sorry if I've left anything or anyone off the summary.

Feel free to keep posting. Let's come up with some really good strategies to make our points better (or even reasonable) value.

 

[prozac]

I don't think there is any way around the charges.
I am planning a Europe trip in June/July. As I now want to maintain silver status and because there does not appear to be 2 redemption seats available in J I thought I should buy 2 Y tickets and upgrade to J. SIA charges a different rate for Y seats that can be upgraded and you guessed it, the difference in the Y seat cost is the equal to the scamcharges, or around $820 per ticket. This means that a J seat will cost $3200 plus about 94,000 miles (less 15% if booked online = about 81,000 krismiles). They have thought of all the angles.

 

[bulldog88]

If you can arrange your travel to start trips in Brazil, their government IIRC bans fuel surcharges. But Aussies need a visa to get there