I thought this was a travel myth?

[Warks]

Sorry if this doesn't belong here but it's travel, rail not plane.
Anyway I thought you'd be interested. Anyone who has travelled Europe by train over the past 30-40 years has probably heard about the legendary overnight train where thieves manage to pump "sleeping gas" into the compartment of unsuspecting (sitting) passengers and then get in there and steal all their stuff.
I did a lot of travel in Europe way back in 1989-90 and I heard this story then about the overnight train from Vienna to Venice or somesuch. We sort of believed it but then later kept hearing it was an urban myth that went back years and years. I heard it from a younger traveller many years later.

Today in the Sydney Morning Herald there's an article which headlines with this sort of incident:
Where strangers on a train can turn nasty

and I quote:

One of the easiest ways to travel between Prague and Krakow is by overnight sleeper train. The most inadvisable way to travel between Prague and Krakow - according to Lonely Planet - is by overnight sleeper train. Our guide noted that the route was a favoured haunt of cunning thieves. We went anyway.That we got completely fleeced is probably unsurprising. But the trial was not that we got robbed, it was the way it happened. We went to sleep, woke up - and things were simply gone. The Polish police brought in a translator and he detailed a scenario where a shadowy stranger - which I remembered - peered into our private sleeper, returning later to use sleeping gas beneath the door. Somebody had gone through my pants while I slept. They had rifled through my friend's coat while she lay unconscious. It seemed incredible but it happened often, the translator said.​

So there it is, they claim it actually happened.

Anyone else remember this one? Anyone know if it's true?​

 

[alieninperth]

I'm pretty sure something like this happened on the oz version of the amazing race.

 

[lovestotravel]

Sleeping gas or not, on some of those routes you are going to get robbed while you sleep!

Keep your passports/iPad/iPod/iPhone/Camera/Cash in your underwear!!!!

A friend of mine recently came back from an overnight train and the majority of people were robbed of cash/cards/devices while they slept!

 

[richie9x]

I always thought it was a myth. I once talked to an anaesthetist about it from what I recall to have a knockout gas delivered like that by piping it into a room is very difficult to control how much dose each person gets. Some people will get too little and it will have no effect, some will get the right amount, while some will get too much and become sick or die.

 

[Mal]

One may believe they were gassed but rather were robbed through usual means.

Its a bit like people claiming their drinks were spiked. Hard to prove, many investigated cases point to other reasons causing the effects.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using AustFreqFly

 

[rechoboam]

One may believe they were gassed but rather were robbed through usual means.

Its a bit like people claiming their drinks were spiked. Hard to prove, many investigated cases point to other reasons causing the effects.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using AustFreqFly

It's rubbish (in terms of gas etc). Aerosolised anaesthetics are likely to kill (as happened in the Moscow theatre situation). Safe ones need to be applied directly to the face. Date-rape drugs are possible- you can take an antidote in advance if concerned.

They would have simply crept in and pickpocketed. Simple and quick- I have seen it happen with my own eyes - eg a kid helped an old man lift a suitcase onto a rack, wandered off- wallet passport all gone. In literally two seconds.

Edit: I read the rest..if you were "gassed" you wouldn't feel normal on waking. I wonder if they had been drinking (I had before I took the same train!). How long would it take to infiltrate liters of gas through a 2mm gap under a door??

 

[maninblack]

It's rubbish (in terms of gas etc). Aerosolised anaesthetics are likely to kill (as happened in the Moscow theatre situation). Safe ones need to be applied directly to the face. Date-rape drugs are possible- you can take an antidote in advance if concerned.

They would have simply crept in and pickpocketed. Simple and quick- I have seen it happen with my own eyes - eg a kid helped an old man lift a suitcase onto a rack, wandered off- wallet passport all gone. In literally two seconds.

Edit: I read the rest..if you were "gassed" you wouldn't feel normal on waking. I wonder if they had been drinking (I had before I took the same train!). How long would it take to infiltrate liters of gas through a 2mm gap under a door??

Absolutely correct. Credibility of SMH and Lonely Planet publishing this nonsense :?:

 

[ReLoad]

I dunno, I once flew UA to LAX in whY and the guy next to me let off some incredibly powerful gases that knocked half the plane out. :shock:

 

[straitman]

I dunno, I once flew UA to LAX in whY and the guy next to me let off some incredibly powerful gases that knocked half the plane out. :shock:

But he didn't sneak it under a door though :!: :shock:

 

[ReLoad]

But he didn't sneak it under a door though :!: :shock:

He certainly snuck it from somewhere.........

 

[casanovawa]

Sleeping gas or not, on some of those routes you are going to get robbed while you sleep!Keep your passports/iPad/iPod/iPhone/Camera/Cash in your underwear!!!!A friend of mine recently came back from an overnight train and the majority of people were robbed of cash/cards/devices while they slept!

Hmmm, you'd want to be wearing some pretty roomy jocks!!!! But i was actually thinking of taking such a train trip in June, maybe i might think a bit more about it... Wonder if the handles on the door would have any capability to be padlocked shut for greater security???

 

[loobloke]

I caught this train just a few weeks ago.

They have locks on the door ... which only the conductor can unlock.

There are several types of seats you can buy, we got a private cabin with 6 bunk beds. If you choose to sleep in the open carriage on the chairs ... you are a muppet for like 30 euro more you get a bed.

 

[harvyk]

It's rubbish (in terms of gas etc). Aerosolised anaesthetics are likely to kill (as happened in the Moscow theatre situation). Safe ones need to be applied directly to the face. Date-rape drugs are possible- you can take an antidote in advance if concerned.

They would have simply crept in and pickpocketed. Simple and quick- I have seen it happen with my own eyes - eg a kid helped an old man lift a suitcase onto a rack, wandered off- wallet passport all gone. In literally two seconds.

Edit: I read the rest..if you were "gassed" you wouldn't feel normal on waking. I wonder if they had been drinking (I had before I took the same train!). How long would it take to infiltrate liters of gas through a 2mm gap under a door??

I agree, a few things I can think of, first is to fill a room with a sleeping gas will take time, standing outside a cabin "for no reason" when are later robbed is not a good way of getting away with your crimes. You also have the problem of entering the room without the gas knocking you out as well, plus the problem of ventilation, either too much ventilation when gassing the room, or not enough when leaving. Plus I would imagine it would take time to get enough gas into a room to knock everyone out.

Where as simply watching which pax are likely to watch their belongings like a hawk, and which pax are likely to doze off once the train starts moving would be a far easier way to rob them. Quick \ easy \ and if you make a mistake and enter a cabin where the occupants are still awake you can easily pretend you've entered the wrong cabin.

 

[rechoboam]

I agree, a few things I can think of, first is to fill a room with a sleeping gas will take time, standing outside a cabin "for no reason" when are later robbed is not a good way of getting away with your crimes. You also have the problem of entering the room without the gas knocking you out as well, plus the problem of ventilation, either too much ventilation when gassing the room, or not enough when leaving. Plus I would imagine it would take time to get enough gas into a room to knock everyone out.

Where as simply watching which pax are likely to watch their belongings like a hawk, and which pax are likely to doze off once the train starts moving would be a far easier way to rob them. Quick \ easy \ and if you make a mistake and enter a cabin where the occupants are still awake you can easily pretend you've entered the wrong cabin.

true "sleeping gas" could be manufactured but really is far more suited to Get Smart than reality. As far as I am aware nothing like this has ever been done; and the alternatives I mentioned above ie Moscow require cylinders to deliver, not pellets etc.

The key word here is PUBLIC transport. If you take expensive stuff on board you may have trouble. Passport and wallet next to your underwear would generally be OK. If the whole thing freaks you out hire a car or take a day train. You can't lock the doors. You can lock your case to the rack if that helps but it probably won't. If you want serious security perhaps hang something extremely loud on the door handle to come off when it moves I guess like a bag of marbles...

 

[11sjw]

Hmmm, you'd want to be wearing some pretty roomy jocks!!!!

Nah I've got plenty of roo...D'oh!!:mrgreen:

But i was actually thinking of taking such a train trip in June, maybe i might think a bit more about it... Wonder if the handles on the door would have any capability to be padlocked shut for greater security???

Possibilty of stopping it being slid open by jamming something in the right spot perhaps?

 

[Simo]

true "sleeping gas" could be manufactured but really is far more suited to Get Smart than reality. As far as I am aware nothing like this has ever been done; and the alternatives I mentioned above ie Moscow require cylinders to deliver, not pellets etc.

The key word here is PUBLIC transport. If you take expensive stuff on board you may have trouble. Passport and wallet next to your underwear would generally be OK. If the whole thing freaks you out hire a car or take a day train. You can't lock the doors. You can lock your case to the rack if that helps but it probably won't. If you want serious security perhaps hang something extremely loud on the door handle to come off when it moves I guess like a bag of marbles...

Hang a cow bell on the door handle.

It does seem like a myth to me, a heap of gas would be needed to fill the room.

You would think train staff would ask questions if someone had a huge gas bottle with a hose going under the train door.

 

[leemin]

I caught this train just a few weeks ago.

They have locks on the door ... which only the conductor can unlock.

There are several types of seats you can buy, we got a private cabin with 6 bunk beds. If you choose to sleep in the open carriage on the chairs ... you are a muppet for like 30 euro more you get a bed.

I caught it with two friends in December. We had a 3-bed sleeper. No issues either. The door locks and AFAIK the conductor was awake the whole time and is in the same carriage.

 

[medhead]

The doors have locks IME. Berths are available in 2, 3, 4 and 6 I believe. Pay for first class and get the berth with the right number of beds for people in your group. I did Munich Budapest in a 6 berth cabin once 2 guys on the bottom bunks with 2 complete car wheels each. Me and mum in the middle bunks. My bro and a backpacker on the top bunks. Cosy.

Worst bit was mum shut the window at some time in the night. That gas wasn't coming in under the door.

If you have to take a 6 berth cabin go for the bottom or top bunks. Luggage can be stored under the bottom bunk or in the area above the corridor next to the top bunk. Middle bunk has no real storage area beside the floor under the window.

I'm pretty sure something like this happened on the oz version of the amazing race.

Nah they just got robbed, not gassed.


Sent from the Throne (80% chance) using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[Warks]

Thanks for the replies. The more I think about the more I realise it has always been complete twaddle. I couldn't believe it was being perpetuated after all these years in such an august journal. Maybe LP was being tongue-in-cheek but the Herald wasn't.

I remember travelling in the equivalent of a dog-box overnight and we used to tie the doors closed to prevent unwanted visitors. Then the conductor would come along and try to get in. When he couldn't he bashed the door loud enough to wake the dead!

Ah memories! 47 hours and three trains to get from Istanbul to Belgrade back in about 1990. Never again...:mrgreen:

 

[AVC]

It's rubbish (in terms of gas etc). Aerosolised anaesthetics are likely to kill (as happened in the Moscow theatre situation). Safe ones need to be applied directly to the face.

+1
There's actually a fine line between being unconscious and being dead. Many of the Moscow fatalaties were from simply having a compromised airway. So the gas knocked them out, but then they suffocated as there was no airway management.

And for that matter how much gas would you need? A "C" size cylinder only holds 300 litres. Remembering you have to flood the entire compartment, not just a mask and a pair of lungs.