I'm running out of cellar space

[Deleted member]

I have a "modest" collection of reds in my (large) Vintec wine cellar. However my latest splurge ( thanks to Buzz and his wine tour) means I am about to hit maximum capacity.
I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the smaller fridges ( like the ones in the Penfolds promotion) which don't appear to be as sophisticated ( humidity control etc) for long / longer term storage.
I have two of these, one Mrs GPH has reserved for champagne storage, the other I have into boardroom at the office, I tend to keep a range of wines, beer etc in there .
I must confess I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be better to move the cellar collection to the office to take advantage of tax deductible power costs. And maybe bring the smaller one home for storage of immediate drinking reds.

 

[Deleted member]

Further to this. Does anyone have an opinion on larger storage like cold room panels and air con units? I'm not keen on spending large amounts to enlarge storage, nor am I interested in increasing ( too heavily ) my already higher than average power bills if I can avoid it

 

[Geoffm]

Further to this. Does anyone have an opinion on larger storage like cold room panels and air con units? I'm not keen on spending large amounts to enlarge storage, nor am I interested in increasing ( too heavily ) my already higher than average power bills if I can avoid it

I constructed my cellar by converting a room - insulated the walls and ceiling and applied 2 layers of water resistant plasterboard. Solid core door with door seals all round.
Has a small split system aircon which keeps a constant 16.5 degrees - condensate drain to a vessel inside the room to maintain some humidity. (1500 bottles in rack plus carton storage space)

 

[Deleted member]

That sounds brilliant.
Problem is I'm not allowed to convert any more rooms. (Garage is already a Billiard room, cars live in carport.)
I do have large storage space at the office.
Does the A/C unit drag much power?

 

[Geoffm]

Just a small hitachi 2.5Kw runs 24/7 - not sure on the actual consumption though. I know its a lot less than the larger ducted system through the house that makes the meter spin like a Frisbee!

 

[Hvr]

Another example of where you need to think differently.

Have an AFF wine event, drink a lot of wine and then restock paying with your credit card and earn lots of points meaning you can fly again.

Win/Win/Win.

 

[TomVexille]

I have a "modest" collection of reds in my (large) Vintec wine cellar. However my latest splurge ( thanks to Buzz and his wine tour) means I am about to hit maximum capacity.
I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on the smaller fridges ( like the ones in the Penfolds promotion) which don't appear to be as sophisticated ( humidity control etc) for long / longer term storage.
I have two of these, one Mrs GPH has reserved for champagne storage, the other I have into boardroom at the office, I tend to keep a range of wines, beer etc in there .
I must confess I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be better to move the cellar collection to the office to take advantage of tax deductible power costs. And maybe bring the smaller one home for storage of immediate drinking reds.


View attachment 46361

I constructed my cellar by converting a room - insulated the walls and ceiling and applied 2 layers of water resistant plasterboard. Solid core door with door seals all round.
Has a small split system aircon which keeps a constant 16.5 degrees - condensate drain to a vessel inside the room to maintain some humidity. (1500 bottles in rack plus carton storage space)

I am available to help you two create space...

 

[MadMick10]

Hey GPH.
I've had my wines stored in a number of different ways in the past. I've had a few dozen of my top quality wines "for investment purposes", stored at a wine storage facility; I've had some wines stored in a wine fridge and I've had some wines stored in a basic insulated cupboard. I tend to keep my everyday drinking wines in the cupboards in my home bar - which fortunately for me doesn't fluctuate in temperature too much - primarily because the bar is made of bricks and has double thickness wooden doors on slate tiles.
My wines in the wine storage facility had been stored there for over 8 years, and I basically moved them out because I couldn't justify the cost of keeping all my wines in there long term, and also because I wanted the ability to take one or two out at a time rather than having to take out an entire case or mix and match cases when I did so. With this in mind I decided to buy a wine fridge, and I explored the EuroCave range, Vintec/Transtherm range and other cheaper models such as Delonghi, Kogan and Hisense.

The EuroCave "fridges" are phenomenal - however so is the price, so based on the price factor I stayed away from them. Transtherm/Vintec for me was the next best model and was more reasonably priced. The Hisense model was also quite good, but in the end I chose the Vintec model for my home storage.

I'm pretty sure that the Penfolds fridge as part of their promotion is the same small sized Vintec fridge that I bought for my bar - so I think it's a good option if you don't want to purchase a bigger wine cabinet with dual climate control. There is an issue with some of the older Vintec small bar model, because you cannot put them under a cabinetry as they need adequate space behind and above to dissipate heat. Due to this, you also have to be careful if you store other wines in crates/boxes next to the fridge. I think the newer models have been designed better and don't suffer the same issues.

In the end it comes down to cost, space and purpose. Cellars are expensive to install and run. Wine fridges are a cheaper option over a cellar, however you might have to prioritize which wines are stored in the wine fridge for long term storage, and which one's need to be stored in a less efficient and cheaper way - i.e. cupboards, under the bed wrapped in newspaper. Polystyrene boxes!!!

 

[TheRealTMA]

It will be heresy to some, but just a note that you do not need to be too obsessed with keeping everything in a wine fridge at 14-16 C, especially with most wines in screw caps these days. It's a folk tale with little science behind it.

Yes it's not good to store them under the bed or on the kitchen bench, especially in the tropics but the important thing is to try to keep wine at a moderate temperature that does not vary too widely too quickly, and out of the light. Red wines will age nicely at 24C without problems. Wines will actually age faster at 24C than 14C and the final component mix and chemistry will be different but not necessarily worse or better. Wines with cork are more of an issue with cork expansion and contraction potentially letting in oxygen and changing the maturation process. Screw caps resolve this nicely, if they stay intact.

The polystyene boxes entioned by MadMick10 is also a useful suggestion to moderate the tempoerature changes.

By all means get a new wine fridge for your long term cellaring of expensive wines (or if for investment then store them in a commercial wine vault). Sometimes one finds wine fridges on eBay and the auction sites and I got a nice 250 bottle one from a HN 50% off sale a few years back.

Without a $2-3000 fridge, maybe try an area under your house if you have one (or in the basement of a multi story building) and create a closed area and insulate it with readily available insulation panels. That will keep the temperature extremes away and the wine in very good condition for 10+ years in Brisbane climates.

Another alternative if you are super keen on a special storage area (which some friends our have done) is buy a small used cold room from a defunct restaurant or shop and install that under the house. A/C is not needed but optional.

 

[burmans]

Totally agree, consistency is more important than temperature though I would be preferring to aim at consistently under about 20 degrees. Beyond that it starts to get expensive, each degree cooler costs progressively more to achieve.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Totally agree, consistency is more important than temperature though I would be preferring to aim at consistently under about 20 degrees. Beyond that it starts to get expensive, each degree cooler costs progressively more to achieve.

Well said, and I agree, but where's your scientific evidence that storage needs to be under 20C?

Too much myth, superstition and hearsay in these discussions. The French say reds should be drunk at 15-17 C (room temperature) but that's rubbish for Australian wines - 20-25C is fine. Drop in some ice cubes if at 39C!

 

[burmans]

Well said, and I agree, but where's your scientific evidence that storage needs to be under 20C?

Too much myth, superstition and hearsay in these discussions. The French say reds should be drunk at 15-17 C (room temperature) but that's rubbish for Australian wines - 20-25C is fine. Drop in some ice cubes if at 39C!

No scientific evidence but then where's your evidence to the contrary?

For me all about experience/experimentation over many years (i.e. 20 plus). As noted previously as you get hotter the wine ages much faster, I was finding at around 24C (in summer months) the window between the wine being "ready" and being stewed was quite small and drinking stewed/cooked wine is never fun so sought to increase the margin for error. Having installed some (cheap) insulation and cooling it definitely considerably improved the wine by slowing the maturation and hence the drinking window when I got it down to under 20C, I haven't had one of these "stewed" wines in years.

I then went a bit further with my cooling and insulation, this reduced to 18C. I wouldnt say there is no difference but dont think this has extended the "good" drinking window much as this small variation came at a reasonable cost. I have friends who have a range of cellaring options down to 12C and after extensive experience of tasting bottle from under the hall to expensive cellars have come to the conclusion that a small amount of cooling certainly does have some value but then beyond that the cost to benefit ratio declines rapidly. Your experience may differ.

 

[Deleted member]

Many great options here.
I have seen some examples of glass walled cellars that "look" great, but I do wonder how efficient they are.
Anyway I don't have the right place or space for that. I do have small warehouse space in my office.
Second hand cool room panels and an A/C unit would work, or even an old cold room as mentioned above. In any event I shall just have to be a little more discerning in my future acquisitions. And start drinking some

 

[MadMick10]

I have seen some examples of glass walled cellars that "look" great, but I do wonder how efficient they are.

Yes I agree they look fantastic, but the cost alone in order to ensure it stays at a constant temperature (i.e. sealing the space around the glass, cost of double glazed doors, cooling/humidity control and insulation) is quite expensive.

If money wasn't a factor, then there's some fantastic cellars ideas out there.
Pre-cast spiral in ground "safe" cellars ($20,000 to $45,000) Yikes!:shock:

Glass walled cellars:

And my favorite - the under the stair case cellar.

I can only dream of having a cellar like one of these!

 

[Deleted member]

I'm thinking it's worth putting a second story on, just to have the under stair cellar !!!

 

[TomVexille]

I want one of the Spiral ones

 

[Deleted member]

Yep. In one of those really tall towers !!!

 

[Steady]

Maybe I could hide a few dozen in a corner somewhere (of the cave - not the toilets) and come back to collect it in 20 years

 

[TheRealTMA]

Maybe I could hide a few dozen in a corner somewhere (of the cave - not the toilets) and come back to collect it in 20 years

Na! Too cold and humid plus bat droppings! Not to mention that you've given the game away now, Bru!

 

[penegal]

I have taken one for the team and am clearing cellar space tonight. 2 down, a few thousand to go...