In London and trying to second guess what qantas might do

[Fleetz]

Actually we are not stuck yet as we are not due to fly out for 12 days however I am trying to second guess the situation here. The volcano ash seems to continuue to spew out with no end in sight. That said the backlog here is huge.

We hold PE seats on Qantas to travel in 12 days time however given these are unique circumstances I am wanting to find out what is likely to happen to our booking should say flights return in say a weeks time. Would our booking still stand or would Qantas allocate our seats to folks that have missed earlier flights when their flights were cancelled.

The concensus here is it is likely to take around 10 days to return to normal service if the ash stopped today which is not going to happen. So it will not be long that the disruption to services will be in our time space.

If the flights are eventually lifted and our flight is not cancel can Qantas bump us from our seats?

Thanks,

Fleetz

 

[Blackadder]

I would imagine if necessary to accomodate those travelling on dates before you, you may be bumped and re-allocated to a later flight.

 

[ejb]

I would imagine if necessary to accomodate those travelling on dates before you, you may be bumped and re-allocated to a later flight.

I would disagree due to something I have read on AFF before.

I think it was serfty who commented (in another thread a few weeks ago)that airlines would rather alter travel plans for 1 pax than shuffle the loads and alter lots of plans.

I would think (and I am guessing) that airlines will run extra services out of EU/UK until the backlog is cleared whilst keeping to the original schedule for current flights.

I am however no expert..........

ejb

 

[Mal]

I would imagine if necessary to accomodate those travelling on dates before you, you may be bumped and re-allocated to a later flight.

I also disagree. Those stranded have to make do with any left over seats... which will be a long wait.

In practice, this is likely what will happen:
- Qantas will try to put on bigger capacity planes (eg A380 or perhaps 2 class 747).
- For every flight, they will be offering probably about 600 pounds in travel vouchers if you choose to not travel.
- They will extend the waiver for changing flights to try and get people to cancel/defer travel.
- They may add extra flights, but are slot constrained at Heathrow, so would need special permission (which may not come).
- BA for example, will probably cancel some domestic flights etc and use their slots for additional long haul to SIN/BKK/HKG etc, which will also add some capacity.

If you are bumped, then Qantas would be on the hook for Denied boarding compensation per EU rules.

PS - if my ex-LHR flight actually leaves on Sunday, then I'll get an insight into what they are planning!

 

[munitalP]

And I would hazard a guess there is a good chance quite a few people will experience flying QANTAS on other carriers metal as well

Mr!

 

[Fleetz]

Thanks Mal,

Goodluck with your Sunday flight. Indeed you will know what the policy is as there has to be lots of cancelled flights that would see people wanting your seat. Please let us know how it all went.

Regards,

Fleetz

I also disagree. Those stranded have to make do with any left over seats... which will be a long wait.

In practice, this is likely what will happen:
- Qantas will try to put on bigger capacity planes (eg A380 or perhaps 2 class 747).
- For every flight, they will be offering probably about 600 pounds in travel vouchers if you choose to not travel.
- They will extend the waiver for changing flights to try and get people to cancel/defer travel.
- They may add extra flights, but are slot constrained at Heathrow, so would need special permission (which may not come).
- BA for example, will probably cancel some domestic flights etc and use their slots for additional long haul to SIN/BKK/HKG etc, which will also add some capacity.

If you are bumped, then Qantas would be on the hook for Denied boarding compensation per EU rules.

PS - if my ex-LHR flight actually leaves on Sunday, then I'll get an insight into what they are planning!

 

[Blackadder]

Of course those delayed would have to be moved to what ever spare seats exist after pre booked passengers.
However can't see Airline having spare aircraft to operate extra services on all routes in addition to there usual operational requirements.

Edit in the Case of QF, would lean towards two class 747 if any additional services are flown unless they remove the A380 from the prime Transpacific route.

 

[docjames]

One wonders if QF might elect to put a few pax on BA/AA to JFK and then on QF108?

 

[Dave Noble]

If you are bumped, then Qantas would be on the hook for Denied boarding compensation per EU rules.

Eu rules would only cover for hotels/incidentals and not the payouts for denied boarding I would think; I would say that it would be pretty reasonable of them to claim exceptional situation

 

[Mal]

Eu rules would only cover for hotels/incidentals and not the payouts for denied boarding I would think; I would say that it would be pretty reasonable of them to claim exceptional situation

I don't agree. You have a confirmed booking. Qantas can't deny you based on "stranded passengers" and claim it as an exceptional situation.

 

[Dave Noble]

I don't agree. You have a confirmed booking. Qantas can't deny you based on "stranded passengers" and claim it as an exceptional situation.

I think that they can quite reasonably claim this to be an exceptional situation and I would be surprised if they were to pay out for denied boarding on an oversold flight

 

[straitman]

One wonders if QF might elect to put a few pax on BA/AA to JFK and then on QF108?

Though BA/AA may not have any spare seats as they will have the same issues.

 

[straitman]

Eu rules would only cover for hotels/incidentals and not the payouts for denied boarding I would think; I would say that it would be pretty reasonable of them to claim exceptional situation

I don't agree. You have a confirmed booking. Qantas can't deny you based on "stranded passengers" and claim it as an exceptional situation.

I think that they can quite reasonably claim this to be an exceptional situation and I would be surprised if they were to pay out for denied boarding on an oversold flight

Why would you think that Dave :?:

I'm not disagreeing, just asking you to explain your logic.

 

[Dave Noble]

Why would you think that Dave :?:

I'm not disagreeing, just asking you to explain your logic.

Um. I think that the whole of the UK airspace being closed for several days and so there being a huge overload in pasengers wanting to get away would be a textbook example of an exceptional situation and I could not see how anyone would succeed arguing in a submission to a court that it is otherwise

Even so, the passengers would be entitled to accommodation et al, but cannot see them getting the EURxx payouts

 

[docjames]

Though BA/AA may not have any spare seats as they will have the same issues.

But with a lot more slots/flights per day (admittedly with thus a lot more pax awaiting flights also). But thinking laterally they could shuffle pax onto an a/c that had to be in NYC anyway....

 

[straitman]

We seem to ahve wandered here a little. Maybe the best answer would be, closer to the date, to actually ask QF and see what their response is.

 

[Fleetz]

Just wondering if Qantas flights out of the UK are obliged under the EU rules???

Fleetz

I also disagree. Those stranded have to make do with any left over seats... which will be a long wait.

In practice, this is likely what will happen:
- Qantas will try to put on bigger capacity planes (eg A380 or perhaps 2 class 747).
- For every flight, they will be offering probably about 600 pounds in travel vouchers if you choose to not travel.
- They will extend the waiver for changing flights to try and get people to cancel/defer travel.
- They may add extra flights, but are slot constrained at Heathrow, so would need special permission (which may not come).
- BA for example, will probably cancel some domestic flights etc and use their slots for additional long haul to SIN/BKK/HKG etc, which will also add some capacity.

If you are bumped, then Qantas would be on the hook for Denied boarding compensation per EU rules.

PS - if my ex-LHR flight actually leaves on Sunday, then I'll get an insight into what they are planning!

 

[Fantic125]

I also disagree. Those stranded have to make do with any left over seats... which will be a long wait.

Have had it happen twice to me out of Heathrow. Once with an engine malfunction (arrived home 2 days later, with a 24 hr stopover in KL). Another time was due to flooding overnight, followed by a bomb threat next morning with flight to Hamburg cancelled. I was given the option of taking the next available flight (3 days after my scheduled flight!) or making my own way there.
Love customer service.

 

[Mal]

Just wondering if Qantas flights out of the UK are obliged under the EU rules???

Yes they are due to leaving ex-EU.

 

[Mal]

Um. I think that the whole of the UK airspace being closed for several days and so there being a huge overload in pasengers wanting to get away would be a textbook example of an exceptional situation and I could not see how anyone would succeed arguing in a submission to a court that it is otherwise

Even so, the passengers would be entitled to accommodation et al, but cannot see them getting the EURxx payouts

I've been having a good look at the legislation, and still cannot see a get-out clause for "extraordinary circumstances" in the cases of downgrading and refused boarding.

There is however the get-out clause for Cancellations caused by extraordinary circumstances etc - which as we all know has been applied during this ash event.

So, I believe both the compensation and also the "right of care" clauses take place. For a flight LHR-SIN, LHR-BKK or LHR-HKG, as they are > 3500km, then the full compensation of Euro600 would apply, plus hotel and food etc etc. Of course, if they manage to put you on another flight which arrives within 4 hours, then that gets reduced by 50%.

Can you point me to some legislation which shows that Denied Boarding and/or flight Downgrading are subject to the extraordinary circumstances rule?