Insurance Claim - loss of points

[SandyS]

Interested to know your thoughts on the following -

Delayed 24 hours in Helsinki due to mechanical failure of plane which Finnair states is Extraordinary Event
Paid $360 change fee to Qantas to reschedule flights
Lost our Business upgrade from SIN to MEL (80,000 points)
Qantas and Finnair refused any sort of recompense, after several attempts as they were separate tickets
Qantas eventually gave me 10k points as a goodwill gesture because of all the stress and time contacting them but emphasized this was not compensation


So I claimed my travel insurance and they asked me to get a quote from Qantas for the value of my points. Qantas replied there was no value but gave a list of the prices of economy flights that day and the cost of business class flights that day.

Travel Insurance have said that I can't claim both additional costs and unused prepaid costs as that would be profiting. They are paying me for my points, using value to purchase stated, on the Qantas website minus the $360 I had to pay in change fees and minus the 10k points Qantas gave me as a goodwill gesture. Also minus the $100 excess on my policy - so $1917.

 

[Himeno]

Wasn't there a court case last year that said mechanical failures are known possibilities in the course of the operation of an airline and as such are not extraordinary events for the purpose of EC261/2004. I remember seeing something about it in the EC261/2004 thread on FlyerTalk.

 

[aussiel]

Wasn't there a court case last year that said mechanical failures are known possibilities in the course of the operation of an airline and as such are not extraordinary events for the purpose of EC261/2004. I remember seeing something about it in the EC261/2004 thread on FlyerTalk.

I seem to recall someone saying the same thing, and also having to fight Finnair fairly vigorously to receive compensation.

If you could get $1917 from your insurer, I'd take it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Interested to know your thoughts on the following -

Delayed 24 hours in Helsinki due to mechanical failure of plane which Finnair states is Extraordinary Event
Paid $360 change fee to Qantas to reschedule flights
Lost our Business upgrade from SIN to MEL (80,000 points)
Qantas and Finnair refused any sort of recompense, after several attempts as they were separate tickets
Qantas eventually gave me 10k points as a goodwill gesture because of all the stress and time contacting them but emphasized this was not compensation


So I claimed my travel insurance and they asked me to get a quote from Qantas for the value of my points. Qantas replied there was no value but gave a list of the prices of economy flights that day and the cost of business class flights that day.

Travel Insurance have said that I can't claim both additional costs and unused prepaid costs as that would be profiting. They are paying me for my points, using value to purchase stated, on the Qantas website minus the $360 I had to pay in change fees and minus the 10k points Qantas gave me as a goodwill gesture. Also minus the $100 excess on my policy - so $1917.

Check your PDS, but the general principle that applies is that the insurance company will look at the value of the fare had you purchased it using $$, and then refund you those $$.

The current issue is slightly complicated because it's not a straight-out airfare purchase - it's an upgrade. Which is kind of a supplement and therefore difficult to price.

There were a couple of ways the points could have been priced. The difference between the economy and business class fare would have been one way, but probably a more accurate compensation would be the way they have done it - using the 'top up' price. This allows you to sort of 're-buy' the points (not exactly because top ups have certain terms and conditions - but you haven't lost under the deal)

However - you can use the $1917 to buy United Miles, or Lifemiles, or AA miles and get yourself a free return business class ticket from Australia to anywhere in Asia for the money. A much better deal than your QF points! (and little difficulty getting availability!)

 

[Pleb Status]

If you are receiving $1917 net for 70000 QF points net, this is a refund of 2.738c/pt.

If you have an Amex Platinum Charge, you can buy the QF points back at 2.5c/pt (or VA/SQ points etc on any Amex card with MR).

 

[UP4014]

Take the insurance money, money in your pocket now is better than maybe and $500 at sometime in the future maybe......

And thanks for the warning on Finnair, there seems to be a theme so they are crossed off my list of airlines.


Matt

 

[SandyS]

I have another thread on the Finnair Fiasco, so I won't go into it all. Basically they said it was a brand new plane and therefore its "extraordinary".
As for the insurance claim, I'm not unhappy just confused at the how they say I can't be compensated for both my points and the $360 change fee. I lost both, so I'm not in any way profiting.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have another thread on the Finnair Fiasco, so I won't go into it all. Basically they said it was a brand new plane and therefore its "extraordinary".
As for the insurance claim, I'm not unhappy just confused at the how they say I can't be compensated for both my points and the $360 change fee. I lost both, so I'm not in any way profiting.

I can see where the insurance company is coming from, but I don't think they have considered the issue properly here.

As a general principle they are right - additional coasts and pre-paid costs might be excluded in ordinary circumstances. An example might be this... your flight is delayed and you lose your first night's hotel for which you paid $100. Because your flight is delayed you now need a hotel at your departure point.

Insurance will pay you one or the other of those - they won't give you both. The $100 you lost at your destination is a night's accommodation that you would have had to pay anyway.

However - this situation is different. It's two separate events which are unrelated. The upgrade may be 'loss of pre-paid' but that's unrelated to the flight change fee.

 

[serfty]

... Basically they said it was a brand new plane and therefore its "extraordinary". ...

Rubbish! ... All they are banking on is lack of knowledge and/or ability to properly prosecute.

 

[serfty]

As others have said, take the money ....

I would still be pursuing the € as a separate matter.

 

[muppet]

.....<snip>

Qantas replied there was no value but gave a list of the prices of economy flights that day and the cost of business class flights that day.

</snip> ...

I find that interesting .... Could be very handy knowing that's available - given the fare difference is not available when revenue pax are downgraded from J to Y.

 

[SandyS]

I can see where the insurance company is coming from, but I don't think they have considered the issue properly here.

As a general principle they are right - additional coasts and pre-paid costs might be excluded in ordinary circumstances. An example might be this... your flight is delayed and you lose your first night's hotel for which you paid $100. Because your flight is delayed you now need a hotel at your departure point.

Insurance will pay you one or the other of those - they won't give you both. The $100 you lost at your destination is a night's accommodation that you would have had to pay anyway.

However - this situation is different. It's two separate events which are unrelated. The upgrade may be 'loss of pre-paid' but that's unrelated to the flight change fee.

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[SandyS]

Rubbish! ... All they are banking on is lack of knowledge and/or ability to properly prosecute.

Correct! They are like a naughty child just constantly saying "NO" whatever I had said to them. Its obviously their tactics.

 

[JohnK]

Airlines seem to get most things their way. In saying that though $1,917 is a very good valuation of 70,000 QFF points.

 

[trooper]

So it doesnt matter that this "cosequential" loss was on a separate ticket?

 

[serfty]

So it doesnt matter that this "cosequential" loss was on a separate ticket?

Seems not ... I do suspect though there was a CiC oneworld agreement in place at the time. (Changed June 1st this year.)

 

[serfty]

Correct! They are like a naughty child just constantly saying "NO" whatever I had said to them. Its obviously their tactics.

Did you try one of the Companies as you indicated back in May?

It's €400 per pax.

If they take you on they'll keep about 30%.

Here's two links:

Flight Delay Compensation - The UK Leader | Bott & Co

EU Regulation 261/2004: What are your rights? | EUclaim

 

[SandyS]

I have contacted one of those companies. They have contacted Finnair who have failed to respond, so now they are assessing if its worth pursuing.

I will definitely post the outcome.

 

[SandyS]

Both Finnair and Qantas clearly stated that no Oneworld agreement made any difference....several times.

Seems not ... I do suspect though there was a CiC oneworld agreement in place at the time. (Changed June 1st this year.)