International Business - Qantas uncompetitive?

[trigger]

Hi,

I've been keeping a casual eye on the forums for a while now and was hoping to pose a genuine question.

I am flying to Europe return in June (into London, out of Frankfurt via Hong Kong - stopover). This should give me sufficient status to be Gold. I'm reasonably loyal to Qantas principally because I flew internationally a lot when I was very young and grew up with them. Essentially, they are fondly programmed into my subconscious (Max Altitude pack anyone?)!

I am not hugely concerned with cost, but I am concerned with value. My flights run 9.2k with Qantas (A380 outbound, 747 inbound via HKG). I have never flown business internationally (only PE, and domestic business).

From what I've read I can earn the exact same points/status with Cathay Pacific for $8.5k (I've never really taken advantage of the OneWorld stuff). Cathay Pacific seem to have 2 business class products, I can't tell if the "new" one is actually in service?

Now, for all my loyalty every other business class seat I see appears to offer better space, more privacy, and more comfort.

For interest sake I priced a flight LHR > MEL > LHR and found out that for 9.2k I could buy a First Class ticket. Now obviously Qantas has the right to price their routes the way they want, but this ground a bit of salt into the wound.

So what (if any) justification exists for me to fly this route with Qantas? Does this route on this carrier offer the best value?

 

[samh004]

Because Qantas is a member of OneWorld, you should feel free to choose the CX option, and if you can get it in F, other than missing out an the A380 I’d go for it as it’s the best value for money, and will offer you more, while still working nicely with your Qantas account.

Oh, and welcome to AFF!

 

[Alanslegal]

Firstly I would say price comparisons based on any given day is not a precise reflection on historical occurances. Just because on Day 1, X cost more than Y does not neccessarily meant X will always cost more than Y down the track. The market is the market and prices fluctuate daily, and across all carriers.

Secondly, if CX First was available for the same price as QF J ... I know which one I'd be taking! I have travelled in a CX F suites and I like them very very very much - and the on-board mood lighting they have is sexy!

Thirdly, comparing apples to apples, I would say that the QF A380 J is probably the best OW J product out there. I then rate CX J second and BA CW third amongst OW carriers [ and as we know different flyers will rate them differently.]

Fourthly, once you have status, you then earn bonus status miles when flying QF, in the case of a SG member its 50% extra points so a return trip to London will get you quite a number of bonus points (and if you make WP, then you get double the base points).

Those are just some of my quick observations.

 

[awilcockson]

Fourthly, once you have status, you then earn bonus status miles when flying QF, in the case of a SG member its 50% extra points so a return trip to London will get you quite a number of bonus points (and if you make WP, then you get double the base points).

My only comment is to remember that if you have status with QF, then you only get the status bonus (100% for platinum) if you fly QF, BA or AA. Up to you whether the extra points outweigh the cost/quality of seat.

 

[Leumas]

I don't think you earn cabin bonus on CX though. However, if you can get CX F, I'll definitely take that!

 

[UP4014]

Everyone looks at the 'value' differently in line with their specific situation.

For you it might be CX is the better the deal but if I book next week I might weigh it up and say QF.

 

[pshepvic]

I don't think you earn cabin bonus on CX though. However, if you can get CX F, I'll definitely take that!

You do earn the Cabin bonus, just not the status bonus:

Frequent Flyer - Earning Points - Fly - Airline Partners

The flag carrier of Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific flies to more than 70 destinations in 30 countries in the Asia-Pacific region, Europe, North America and Africa.
When flying on eligible Cathay Pacific fares and flights with a CX flight number, you can:

• earn points,
• earn Status credits on eligible booking classes, and
• earn a Cabin bonus.

 

[ozmille]

If we talk about Skybed M1 I would prefer BA's CW offer any day. I have not flown on QF A380 yet as they don't go via BKK so can't comment.

I have just done a quick check and BA in June is 8600 and on BA you get status bonus.

-edit-

Or you can nhave a look at the AY offering. BA to BKK AY to HEL and on to LHR comes in at 6576. And if you book the BA flight numbers to BKK you get the status bonus on these legs as well. I have flown them a couple of times to Europe and very happy with service and the transfer through Helsinki is a breeze

-edit-

 

[pshepvic]

JAL have a companion fare at the moment (available through their website - only condition is 2 people have to book) which is $6800 return SYD-LHR, in J. Not a bad price for a pretty good service. Their seats are probably on par with QF SkyBed Mk1, although a little hard (ask for an extra couple of blankets to lie on). As with QF, the seats are angled on the 777's from here to Tokyo and for anyone over 6' tall you can't stretch out completely. Their new seats are also angled, although are longer, and I think they are on the aircraft from NRT-LHR.

QF A380 SkyBeds are definitely better, but IMHO not worth an extra $2,400. F on CX however may be...

 

[serfty]

Of course, if you were flying ex LHR, the "same" flights can be had on Qantas from around £4110 (~AU$6,400)

 

[gumpy]

If you jump on to webjet and have a look at the J offerings to LHR and there are some really good deals there though the hard product isn't always the same. But in general I must say QF are on the expensive side.

For me the next time I fly to LHR on my own money it will be on the angle flat beds on air asia for 2k one way...

 

[trigger]

Wow, thanks for all your responses, most appreciated.

Firstly, just to clear up some confusion - First class is really not an option. My comment was that for 9.2k I could buy a ticket with Qantas UK in First Class (where as with Qantas AU that only buys me Business Class). Again, 2 different countries, so not really comparable, but did make me wonder...

So the choice is really Business Class with CX or QF. CX gives me slightly worse routing but is $1000 cheaper. If they were both the same product I would think the saving was worth it, but if QF is superior then I would think not.

Alanslegal: it is reassuring to hear that the A380 QF J is highly regarded, what about on the 747 where I have 2 legs (as I come back via HKG?).

Serfty: yes, this was my point about the tickets being cheaper ex-LHR. But not much you can do about that.

Ozmille: Finnair adds another leg to my trip which is not particularly desireable, and I thought their older business class offering looked poor. However, your point about BA is interesting, the seats offer more privacy and the routing would be reasonable too. I would lose the frequent flyer points I gain when purchasing via Qantas (branded credit card), but perhaps it would be worth it?

Can anyone else compare the QF vs BA business class products?

 

[serfty]

...
Serfty: yes, this was my point about the tickets being cheaper ex-LHR. But not much you can do about that. ...

Actually there is a lot you can do; especially if you travel to LHR regularly.

Say you need to be back in LHR in October and then February after your June trip.

Get to LHR on a one way basis then book LHR-\\-MEL-\\LHR outbouind on your planned June return dates and inbound on your planned October date.

Do the same for October and February; wash, rinse repeat!

Be aware that for some of these fares, changes are not permitted.

 

[gumpy]

Wow, thanks for all your responses, most appreciated.

Firstly, just to clear up some confusion - First class is really not an option. My comment was that for 9.2k I could buy a ticket with Qantas UK in First Class (where as with Qantas AU that only buys me Business Class). Again, 2 different countries, so not really comparable, but did make me wonder...

So the choice is really Business Class with CX or QF. CX gives me slightly worse routing but is $1000 cheaper. If they were both the same product I would think the saving was worth it, but if QF is superior then I would think not.

Alanslegal: it is reassuring to hear that the A380 QF J is highly regarded, what about on the 747 where I have 2 legs (as I come back via HKG?).

Serfty: yes, this was my point about the tickets being cheaper ex-LHR. But not much you can do about that.

Ozmille: Finnair adds another leg to my trip which is not particularly desireable, and I thought their older business class offering looked poor. However, your point about BA is interesting, the seats offer more privacy and the routing would be reasonable too. I would lose the frequent flyer points I gain when purchasing via Qantas (branded credit card), but perhaps it would be worth it?

Can anyone else compare the QF vs BA business class products?

Hey click on the link to my one and only blog posting on AFF. There I flew QF, BA, CX and AA J on the DONE4.

If your flight on CX has the new seats I would definately go CX over any of them.

I personally would rather fly BA over QF (747) if you can get BA upper deck because the service is excellent and the seats go fully flat. QF A380 is excellent except there are 71 other J seats and you can get lost in the crowd... It's also so quiet you can hear people snore...

 

[burrco]

Actually there is a lot you can do; especially if you travel to LHR regularly.

Say you need to be back in LHR in October and then February after your June trip.

Get to LHR on a one way basis then book LHR-\\-MEL-\\LHR outbouind on your planned June return dates and inbound on your planned October date.

Do the same for October and February; wash, rinse repeat!

Be aware that for some of these fares, changes are not permitted.

That's what I recently did - used points for a one way and now pick up a J class ex-Germany for about 5k. If you book from say Berlin you can fly LHR on the A380 or via FRA on the 747.

 

[gumpy]

That's what I recently did - used points for a one way and now pick up a J class ex-Germany for about 5k. If you book from say Berlin you can fly LHR on the A380 or via FRA on the 747.

Like wise, all my DONE4's are booked ex AKL, I leave the final leg open from SYD to AKL and then start it all again from there...

 

[JetLagged]

When I looked at a J class booking in Sepotember to LHR, found that Singapore was the dearest, then Qantas, with Emirates only about $500 cheaper than Qantas. AND, if I wanted to fly on the A380 with Singapore, they were about $1500-2000 dearer than Qantas on their A380. So really not sure about Qantas being uncompetitive, at least on that small samplying.

 

[pshepvic]

When I looked at a J class booking in Sepotember to LHR, found that Singapore was the dearest, then Qantas, with Emirates only about $500 cheaper than Qantas. AND, if I wanted to fly on the A380 with Singapore, they were about $1500-2000 dearer than Qantas on their A380. So really not sure about Qantas being uncompetitive, at least on that small samplying.

It all comes down booking class availability (which is determined by supply and demand for the particular date you are looking at). So sometimes QF will be competitive, other times it won't.

 

[trigger]

Hi again,

The booking of a second set of flights ex-UK is tempting, but unfortunately unrealistic as I cannot plan that far ahead (and the cheap deals have a no changes, no refund policy).

I looked at BA flights but outbound from Melbourne I am codesharing on Qantas aircraft anyway. I have included a couple of additional internal flights and the price with Qantas is still 9.2k vs 11.5k with BA.

Jetlagged - I guess my real question was that whilst Qantas may be $500 cheaper than Singapore, the Singapore product looks like a much better. One seat near the window compared to 2, for example. But that's why I ask if anyone has flown them back to back!

Gumpy - took a look at your blog, a good read! I have been pre-seated upstairs (13K) on the 747 for the way home (QF, of course, but still a nice spot?).

 

[gumpy]

Hi again,

The booking of a second set of flights ex-UK is tempting, but unfortunately unrealistic as I cannot plan that far ahead (and the cheap deals have a no changes, no refund policy).

I looked at BA flights but outbound from Melbourne I am codesharing on Qantas aircraft anyway. I have included a couple of additional internal flights and the price with Qantas is still 9.2k vs 11.5k with BA.

Jetlagged - I guess my real question was that whilst Qantas may be $500 cheaper than Singapore, the Singapore product looks like a much better. One seat near the window compared to 2, for example. But that's why I ask if anyone has flown them back to back!

Gumpy - took a look at your blog, a good read! I have been pre-seated upstairs (13K) on the 747 for the way home (QF, of course, but still a nice spot?).

Upper deck QF J is good. Good service, seats are sloped but fine. I secretly prefer these seats to A380 J due to the much more personal service level. Enjoy =)