Is there a velocity equivalent of qantas jasa flights ???

[sumthinfornuthin]

The headline sums up my query please

 

[leemin]

If you mean, in order to earn SC using points, unfortunately, no.

 

[bodog]

unfortunately, no.

Virgin FAIL then

Wonder if they'll introduce it to help burn up some of the points liability sitting in Velocity Rewards?

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Opportunity lost for them then in my opinion. These QANTAS JASA flights are the best thing since sliced bread.

Using them I have just got silver last week, will be GOLD in August and will be PLATINUM in October. I'm stoked !!

 

[lovestotravel]

Really failing to see how this is a "FAIL" or "opportunity lost" for Virgin by not having this.

For the FF who wants to "artificially" increase their status, yes it would be annoying

 

[bodog]

Really failing to see how this is a "FAIL" or "opportunity lost" for Virgin by not having this.
For the FF who wants to "artificially" increase their status, yes it would be annoying

I have 600,000+ Velocity points - I'd use them for JASA type flights - like I said its a lost opportunity to for Virgin to reduce their liability against outstanding points.

 

[nlagalle]

Qantas ASA's started out by not earning SC's or points.. took more than a year if i recall to change them.. Best move though!

 

[lovestotravel]

I have 600,000+ Velocity points - I'd use them for JASA type flights - like I said its a lost opportunity to for Virgin to reduce their liability against outstanding points.

So without a JASA option, you will never use the points.. I find that hard to believe....

 

[RB]

I have 600,000+ Velocity points - I'd use them for JASA type flights - like I said its a lost opportunity to for Virgin to reduce their liability against outstanding points.

Were these points while you were aware of the conditions of the scheme?

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Artificially or not it is still bums on seats and business for Qantas and I see it as a win/win and all my cards sweep to Qantas as such it definitely works for them. Velocity would pick up qantas defectors if they offered the same ASA deals on Virgin.

It's a no brainer in my opinion and they are missing out.

 

[yohy?!]

i still think the number of award tickets purchased as ASAa vs Classics is low - when I've spoken to colleagues about them they have the impression they are millions of points and a waste of time.

Not being in the 'AFF-circle' I think that is the way the general public see them which is likely why virgin hasn't bothered with them yet...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Really failing to see how this is a "FAIL" or "opportunity lost" for Virgin by not having this.

For the FF who wants to "artificially" increase their status, yes it would be annoying

Risking a major hijack here, but is it "artificially" increasing status? Wouldn't it be just another tool in the overall loyalty scheme. In fact, to call these loyalty schemes frequent flyer schemes could be called "artificial" as well. By that I mean someone who flys infrequently may indeed have higher status than another who flys far more frequently, but does not/can not direct their travel budget to the expensive fare buckets (not to mention so called targeted SC promos that seem to, in at least some cases, favour those with higher status though not necessarily the frequent flyers). So the term "frequent flyer" is indeed subjective in itself and if one were to replace the term "frequent flyer" scheme with the term "loyalty" scheme, then SC earning ATAs (or JASAs) is certainly not artificial. Bring it on, I say .

 

[muppet]

I really like that Velocity hasn't done this yet (I presume they will eventually).

There are too many muppets who hardly ever fly with high status at Qantas now. Virgin too due to the status match - but they'll start to drop off in September.
At least previously the credit card churners could only use all the award seats, but they couldn't bring every man and his dog in the the lounge - now with JASAs that I think are of questionable financial value to QF, all these high credit card users are allowed into the F and J lounge on their JQ runs. Also I think it's lost opportunity as in the past those who wanted to do a status run had to actually buy a fare, now they're just using points that Qantas already has the revenue for.

Back on the Velocity - as a shareholder, I don't think they should offer this, awards and paid travel should be separate. Also, there is NO benefit to them "reducing points liability" via this method. Velocity points appear to be held in some kind of trust separate to the company balance sheet. They've already booked the profit, so redeeming them as low yield fares would be a bad decision.

However, that said, I fully understand how those on AFF love them - they're great value!

 

[markis10]

ASAs were introduced to overcome the scarcity of awards under the classic system, and DJ have had them put in place for the same reason, there is a trend to make rewards the same experience as paying cash across the various hospitality program's, no doubt ASAs will one day get SCs and points.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Also I think it's lost opportunity as in the past those who wanted to do a status run had to actually buy a fare, now they're just using points that Qantas already has the revenue for.

Qantas already has the cash, but under the accounting rules the value of the points sit on their balance sheet as a liability and aren't recognised as revenue until you redeem the points for a Classic, ASA or Partner award.

Also, there is NO benefit to them "reducing points liability" via this method. Velocity points appear to be held in some kind of trust separate to the company balance sheet. They've already booked the profit, so redeeming them as low yield fares would be a bad decision.

Based on Virgin Australia's 2011 accounts, the value of the points is deferred as a liability on Virgin's balance sheet and recognised in the profit and loss statement when redeemed. Their Unearned Revenue note says that they have $539.2m of Unearned Passenger Revenue (which is probably the value of tickets people have paid them for but not yet flown) and the value of Other Unearned Revenue (a liability on their balance sheet) of $160.7m is their assessment of the value of the unredeemed Velocity points out there. If they were to institute ASA and everyone with Velocity points instantly redeemed them for ASA awards, only then could they transfer that $160.7m to the income statement as revenue.

ASA awards, Points + Pay, whatever you call it, is a good way (from an airline's perspective) to reduce the liability on their balance sheet for unredeemed points. Qantas had to give people points and SCs to encourage them to do this though.

 

[pat25d]

And what need is there for Velocity to reduce their liabilities?

 

[muppet]

Qantas already has the cash, but under the accounting rules the value of the points sit on their balance sheet as a liability and aren't recognised as revenue until you redeem the points for a Classic, ASA or Partner award.



Based on Virgin Australia's 2011 accounts, the value of the points is deferred as a liability on Virgin's balance sheet and recognised in the profit and loss statement when redeemed. Their Unearned Revenue note says that they have $539.2m of Unearned Passenger Revenue (which is probably the value of tickets people have paid them for but not yet flown) and the value of Other Unearned Revenue (a liability on their balance sheet) of $160.7m is their assessment of the value of the unredeemed Velocity points out there. If they were to institute ASA and everyone with Velocity points instantly redeemed them for ASA awards, only then could they transfer that $160.7m to the income statement as revenue.

ASA awards, Points + Pay, whatever you call it, is a good way (from an airline's perspective) to reduce the liability on their balance sheet for unredeemed points. Qantas had to give people points and SCs to encourage them to do this though.

The best way to reduce the liability is for them to expire.
The second best way is to allow them to be redeemed at low value - ie classic awards during low season.
The worst way is to allow them to be redeemed and comparable to high value fares - ie JASAs.

They can't be recognised as profit until redeemed - however they have the CASH. They're objective should be to get more cash. (without unnecessary brand damage ie cancelling all points) I accept that only profits can be paid as dividends, but a large cash balance prevents negative shareholder value, like Virgins last capital raising.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

And what need is there for Velocity to reduce their liabilities?

The liability represents the value of points (or other redemptions) for which the airline has already received the cash (up to some years ago, depending on how long individual members have been accumulating the points), but from the airline's perspective, whenever you redeem they then have to spend the cash (fuel, staff costs etc) to fulfill the flight. As an extreme example, if one year an airline carried no passengers other than those who redeemed points from the airline's program, they would record revenue in their books, still have to spend all the cash to service the flights, but have no cash inflows. Of course an airline doesn't allow that to happen (which is why FF seat availability is limited) but it is in their interest to keep the liability at a manageable level.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

The best way to reduce the liability is for them to expire.
The second best way is to allow them to be redeemed at low value - ie classic awards during low season.
The worst way is to allow them to be redeemed and comparable to high value fares - ie JASAs.

They can't be recognised as profit until redeemed - however they have the CASH. They're objective should be to get more cash. (without unnecessary brand damage ie cancelling all points) I accept that only profits can be paid as dividends, but a large cash balance prevents negative shareholder value, like Virgins last capital raising.

From an airline's perspective, letting them expire is one of the best ways, but classic awards are the worst way to reduce the liability. This is why since the first FF program was started in 1981 by AA, the points requirements for flights continue to be increased and other options such as ASA awards, points + pay, and redeeming for merchandise or hotels etc have been introduced. One of the ways to reduce the liability is to simply devalue the points by inflating the award charts.

If you redeem a classic award for say 100,000 points, they can only reduce the value of their liability by the value of those points. But if you redeem for an ASA award at say 500,000, they get to reduce the liability by 5 times as much.

Of course they still want you to continue earning them (particularly from partners, where it is cash in the door rather than an allocation of the price you paid for the ticket) but it is in their interest to have you redeem them as quickly and at as high a level as possible.

 

[samh004]

So without a JASA option, you will never use the points.. I find that hard to believe....

Less likely to. I’m in the same boat. I’d class m remaining Velocity points as a last resort if all other options were out. If I could use them and earn some back, I’d look at them differently.

The liability represents the value of points (or other redemptions) for which the airline has already received the cash (up to some years ago, depending on how long individual members have been accumulating the points), but from the airline's perspective, whenever you redeem they then have to spend the cash (fuel, staff costs etc) to fulfill the flight. As an extreme example, if one year an airline carried no passengers other than those who redeemed points from the airline's program, they would record revenue in their books, still have to spend all the cash to service the flights, but have no cash inflows. Of course an airline doesn't allow that to happen (which is why FF seat availability is limited) but it is in their interest to keep the liability at a manageable level.

But then surely QF has seen an increase of award tickets from those in the know when they said ASA’s can earn points/SC? That would create more liability?