Issue with QF on-line booking engine?

[taswegian77]

Hi all,

I booked a multi city trip yesterday with the specific intention of ensuring I secured a Super Saver ticket so I could apply for upgrades. The routes were MEL-AKL-SYD-SIN-SYD-MEL. This booking incorporated a BA flight so i could obtain the bonus 5000 points on offer with the current promotion and came to a cost of $1850. The screen clearly stated it was a Super Saver Fare as below the booking prior to payment it displayed other red e-deals which were cheaper. I paid my money and when I received the confirmation email and then logged in to request all my upgrades I was shocked to find that the MEL-AKL and SYD-SIN legs were not upgradeable.

I immediately contacted QF and after waiting for at least 15 minutes they told me that it was a glitch in the system and somehow the system got confused. They told me they reported the issue to their IT guys but for me to obtain the correct fare class I would have to pay an extra $185. As I wanted the ability to apply for an upgrade I reluctantly paid the difference and they re-issued my ticket but I was very unhappy to be treated this way.

My question to everyone or anyone who might know is did QF have the right to charge me the extra considering I entered into an agreement with them and paid for the original ticket on the basis it was a Super Saver fare. I feel ripped off by QF and plan on taking the matter up with their customer service team. I wonder how many other people have been affected by this so called glitch. I have proof of the original booking, the screens showing the super saver terms and conditions on my original booking and I feel they should have been obliged to fix the error at their cost.

I look forward to getting some responses prior to me seeking compensation from QF. Am I unreasonable here?

Cheers,

 

[JohnK]

I think these type of glitches have been around for some time. One of the common glitches is the international red-deals can book into a number of higher classes including S and V class.

I don't think you are being unreasonable and in my opinion you should not be charged extra to receive what you believed you will be receiving when you made the booking. If the booking engine has a glitch, as opposed to keying errors, then QF should take the blame. Since you have proof of screen shots I would take the matter further with QF customer care.

 

[Timtammi]

I agree with John on this one. I think you have a good case and I would like to see someone take QF on on this one. I have had this happen to me too. To be fair, its gone both in my favour and against in the past and I haven't done anything about it because I simply couldn't be bothered and just gave up on the idea of being able to upgrade. I think QF need to be a lot more transparent about what booking class you are booking into before you commit your dollars as I think many FF like to use points to upgrade and this may well be a deciding factor in which flight/fare to book. If they want to limit the upgradeability of fare types then they owe it to their customers to make it very clear what they are buying upfront.

Good luck, and let us know how you go!

Cheers

 

[Dave Noble]

The rules for upgrades is that it cannot be in E, N, O or Q class .

For domestic upgrades the description is

Flight Upgrade Awards are not available on airfares booked in E, N, O or Q class, which includes some Red e-Deal fares.

There is no mention of the term red-e-deal for international nor that all super savers are eligable for upgrades only that you cannot upgrade E,N,O and Q

When you called they allowed you to pay the additional amount for a fare where upgrades are permitted without, it would seem, making you pay a change fee

I cannot see that you have any grounds for compensation since you have just paid that which is required to be eligable to upgrade

if you had decided that you didnt want to pay the $185 and had then tried to get a refund back down to a cheaper fare or even cancel completely, I would have thought that that would be a reasonable request too

What do you think that you are owed compensation for given that you have not been overcharged or penalised unfairly from what I can read

Dave

 

[NM]

The rules for upgrades is that it cannot be in E, N, O or Q class .

Other fare classes that cannot be upgraded include X, U, Z, P, A, F and R

 

[Dave Noble]

Other fare classes that cannot be upgraded include X, U, Z, P, A, F and R

Actually, I have seen nothing in the rules that states that R,F,A and P are ineligable to upgrade though I have had trouble requesting upgrades online from F

I was trying to keep the reply simple and relevent

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

Qantas could avoid all this by simply displaying the actual fare class somewhere along the line, even if at the final review stage before you pay up. Hiding behind abstract names that may or may not include upgradeable fares is just annoying.

Would it kill them to say SuperSaver (V) or whatever on the confirmation page?

 

[JohnK]

Would it kill them to say SuperSaver (V) or whatever on the confirmation page?

That would be the desired result but in this case taswegian77 booked a super saver itinerary (which should in theory be upgradeable) and found 2 non-upgradeable flights in the booking. If a booking involves mixed classes then QF should not advertise/display the higher class description which in this case is Super Saver. It is clearly misleading as some people only purchase the higher class airfares to be able to upgrade the flights.

If I were taswegian77 I would take the matter further with QF customer care especially the screen shots as evidence. I would not be concerned about any compensation other than the additional money paid to make the other 2 flights upgradeable.

 

[Dave Noble]

If I were taswegian77 I would take the matter further with QF customer care especially the screen shots as evidence. I would not be concerned about any compensation other than the additional money paid to make the other 2 flights upgradeable.

On what gounds? That he was charged the correct fare for a ticket so should get compensation?

Dave

 

[Dave Noble]

That would be the desired result but in this case taswegian77 booked a super saver itinerary (which should in theory be upgradeable) and found 2 non-upgradeable flights in the booking. If a booking involves mixed classes then QF should not advertise/display the higher class description which in this case is Super Saver. It is clearly misleading as some people only purchase the higher class airfares to be able to upgrade the flights.

QF does not state that super savers are upgradeable, just that E,N,O and Q are NOT upgradeable

If purchasing specifically for the purpose of upgrading , then would be wise to verify fare bases before purchasing ... e.g. by phone

Dave

 

[Flashback]

Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Flight Upgrades - About Flight Upgrades

You can use your points for a flight upgrade on Qantas domestic and international flights.
Flight upgrades are available on:

• Discount Economy^ (excluding E, N, O or Q class) to Premium Economy*
• Full Economy to Premium Economy*
• Discount Economy^ (excluding E, N, O or Q class) to Business,
• Full Economy to Business
• Premium Economy* to Business
• Business to First.

 

[JohnK]

On what gounds? That he was charged the correct fare for a ticket so should get compensation?

I did not mention compensation! Why would you advise someone not to complain to QF customer case for being charged extra to receive what they should have received in the first place when clearly they have a very good case?

As far as I am aware a Super Saver itinerary is upgradeable and taswegian77 has screen shots that prove a purchase of a Super Saver airfare yet 2 flights were not upgradeable. Then called QF and was told that there is a known glitch in the system and could pay another $185 to be able to upgrade the other 2 flights.

In my opinion that is clearly grounds for taking the matter further as there appears to be some sort of deception, false advertising or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Dave Noble]

I did not mention compensation! Why would you advise someone not to complain to QF customer case for being charged extra to receive what they should have received in the first place when clearly they have a very good case?

As far as I am aware a Super Saver itinerary is upgradeable and taswegian77 has screen shots that prove a purchase of a Super Saver airfare yet 2 flights were not upgradeable. Then called QF and was told that there is a known glitch in the system and could pay another $185 to be able to upgrade the other 2 flights.

In my opinion that is clearly grounds for taking the matter further as there appears to be some sort of deception, false advertising or whatever you want to call it.

I quote

"I would not be concerned about any compensation other than the additional money paid to make the other 2 flights upgradeable"

That specifically references compensation

They have no case. The person purchased a fare for which some segments are in either N,O,E or Q class. As such they are ineligable to upgrade those segments

In order to get the remaining segments into a class where upgrades are permitted, they had to pay the appropriate fare difference. It matters not whether it showed it as being a supersaver or red-e-deal, what matters is what booking classes were used.

There is no compensation due

Dave

 

[JohnK]

QF does not state that super savers are upgradeable, just that E,N,O and Q are NOT upgradeable

Not quite true Dave. If you click on Super Saver then this text appears

Super Saver

Travel Class

• Economy.

Minimum Stay

• Nil

Maximum Stay

• 12 Months

Stopovers

• 1 stopover permitted (additional charges and taxes may be payable), and
• 1 additional stopover permitted for payment of A$100 plus any additional charges and taxes.
• Exception:
• For travel to Jakarta, Depnasar and Manila 1 stopover permitted at a charge of A$200.
• Note: If this fare is combined with another fare the most restrictive stopover conditions apply.

Booking Changes

• Before and after departure:
  • Return booking changes can be made online at qantas.com/yourbooking. To make changes to one-way bookings, multi-city bookings, or to make changes via phone, call 13 13 13. For changes made over the phone you must pay the service fee applicable as at the date of the change.
  • Itinerary changes permitted. At the time of making the change, you must pay (per person per change):
    • the itinerary change fee applicable as at the date of the change (no charge for infant paying 10% of the fare)
    • any fare difference
  • If this itinerary contains Jetstar domestic flights, additional change fee may apply.

Name Changes

• Not permitted.

Cancellations (including no show)

• Before departure (Not applicable to Qantas Any Seat Awards):
  • A cancellation fee of A$275 per person applies. Except if upgraded to a higher fare. (no charge for infant paying 10% of the fare)
• After departure (Not applicable to Qantas Any Seat Awards):
  • The refund will be the difference (if any) between the fare paid and the applicable fare for the journey travelled, less A$275 per person applies. (no charge for infant paying 10% of the fare)
• Qantas Any Seat Award:
  • If this fare is a Qantas Any Seat Award, this fare is not refundable.
• This fare may be used as credit towards the payment of any higher fare from the point of origin, provided the new fare conditions are met. A reissue fee of A$50 per person applies. If the new fare is cancelled the original fare cancellation conditions will apply.This credit must be used within 12 months of the original tickets date of issue.
• Note: If this fare is combined with another fare the most restrictive cancellation conditions apply.

Children / Infants

• Discounts apply for infants (under 2 years) and children (2 to 11 years). Discounts are based on the fare type and the fare amount (excluding surcharges, fees and taxes) paid by the adult travelling and, for infants, whether they occupy a seat. Surcharges, fees and taxes that apply are then added. The exact total will be quoted once you have selected your flights.
• Infants must be accompanied, with a maximum of one infant per adult travelling.

Qantas Frequent Flyer

• Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award.
• Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights.
• Points and Status Credits are not earned when travelling on Qantas Any Seat Awards. Classed as Discount Economy when Status Credits are earned on this fare.
• Points and Status Credits are not accrued when travelling on Qantas codeshare flights operated by Jetstar.

Other Information

• For bookings made through Qantas Telephone Sales, Airports and Qantas Travel outlets, a booking fee of A$50 per passenger applies for bookings made until or on 16 February 2009, and A$60 per passenger on or after 17 February 2009.

Take Note of 'Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award'. That is about as clear as it gets and again in my opinion very good grounds to take the matter up with QF customer care.

 

[Dave Noble]

Not quite true Dave. If you click on Super Saver then this text appears


Take Note of 'Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award'. That is about as clear as it gets and again in my opinion very good grounds to take the matter up with QF customer care.

and a flight upgrade was available on the eligable flights in the itinerary.

If he had decided not to want to pay the extra and wanted to downgrade to the cheapest fare, then Iwould have supported that he should be allowed to do that.... he has suffered no loss other than having to make a phone call to pay the appropriate fare for the journey to be undertaken

Dave

 

[JohnK]

and a flight upgrade was available on the eligable flights in the itinerary

The text says 'Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award' followed by 'Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights'. Now clearly this is not an Any Seat Award.

Is my understanding of English different to yours? Nowhere does it say eligible flights, it says 'upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare'. Now assuming that taswegian77 purchased a Super Saver and is not trying to upgrade the BA flight then all other flights on this itinerary should be upgradeable. If they are not then this is QFs problem not taswegian77s.

If there is a screen shot that mentions the words 'Super Saver' along with the text I posted earlier then it is very good grounds for making a case against QF. Why am I repeating what is so clearly obvious?

 

[Dave Noble]

The text says 'Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award' followed by 'Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights'. Now clearly this is not an Any Seat Award.

Is my understanding of English different to yours? Nowhere does it say eligible flights, it says 'upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare'. Now assuming that taswegian77 purchased a Super Saver and is not trying to upgrade the BA flight then all other flights on this itinerary should be upgradeable. If they are not then this is QFs problem not taswegian77s.

If there is a screen shot that mentions the words 'Super Saver' along with the text I posted earlier then it is very good grounds for making a case against QF. Why am I repeating what is so clearly obvious?

AKL-SYD and SYD-MEL *were* upgradeable

You make out that it is obvious but you seem oblivious to the fact that he has only been charged what he should be charged for a fare in an eligable class. Whether it said super-saver or not is irrelevent...he had purchased a ticket that was in E,N,O or Q for some of the sectors

Those sectors were ineligable

One of SYD-SIN-SYD was on BA and so obviously was ineligable

Overall 2 of the 3 QF sectors were eligable to be upgraded, the 3rd one wasn't

Dave

 

[trooper]

So you go online.... as the airline invites (and wants?) you to do.... Book a ticket that is described as "Super Saver" (rather than listed by fare class etc) ....which fares are defined as being upgradeable..

..BUT then you must CALL to make sure?

What's the point of being able to book online then? Isn't that just a tad ridiculous?

That would drive me nuts.. (not a very long trip I must admit..) so I am glad that with NZ ALL fares are upgradeable (including awards) on a standby basis, and those eligible for confirmed upgrades are clearly defined online!

 

[opusman]

You make out that it is obvious but you seem oblivious to the fact that he has only been charged what he should be charged for a fare in an eligable class. Whether it said super-saver or not is irrelevent...he had purchased a ticket that was in E,N,O or Q for some of the sectors

This is getting rather pedantic

His actual complaint, then, should be that he was sold a Super Saver fare that in fact was not a Super Saver fare on all of the segments. Qantas do not market their fares online as N, O, Q, E, F, J or anything else. They are marketed as red e-deal, super saver, full economy, business and first. Irrespective of upgrade eligibility, he would seem to have a claim under basic consumer rights legislation on the basis that he booked and paid for what was advertised as a Super Saver fare and turned out not to be.

 

[Dave Noble]

This is getting rather pedantic

His actual complaint, then, should be that he was sold a Super Saver fare that in fact was not a Super Saver fare on all of the segments. Qantas do not market their fares online as N, O, Q, E, F, J or anything else. They are marketed as red e-deal, super saver, full economy, business and first. Irrespective of upgrade eligibility, he would seem to have a claim under basic consumer rights legislation on the basis that he booked and paid for what was advertised as a Super Saver fare and turned out not to be.

Regardless.... the sectors to be upgraded have to be in an eligable booking class

Other than perhaps feeling misled at time of booking, he has suffered no loss. He has been able to change the ticket to one that is fully upgradeable with no penalty

It is not as if he has been overcharged for the ticket or as if he thought he had been misled and not allowed to downgrade the ticket to one fully non-upgradeable or charged a change fee on top of the fare difference

There has been no loss by the customer to ask for compensation against

Dave