J Class for DJ?

[Deleted member 29185]

Warning....confused post ahead!

With rumour of a DJ, J class, I thought I might seek the combined wisdom of the forum.

Firstly......why? What's the big attraction with J over PE?

DJ PE (from rumour) is scheduled to be bannished, so I ask why would they consider J to work when PE has failed?

Admittably, I don't regularly fly Premium Economy (not even sure which class it is), but I certainly have done so when it suits me. Also, blind Freddie can see the PE seats are usually mostly empty, so I can disgruntedly accept the decision to abandon PE, but why does anyone think putting up a curtain between zoo and business will work?

I would have thought abandoning PE is counter-productive. I can't imagine them fitting in another row of seats without cramping up the rest further , so what's to gain? Surely, it must be a case of simply finding a fare that the punters will pay repeatedly for the extra space. The exit rows fill every plane (@ what, $25 extra) so surely the price is somewhere between that and the $100-$300 or so extra for the PE. Alternatively, leave it as is, and upgrade the Gold and/or Silver flyers to vacant PE seats, so the extra zoo seats can be placed on the market.

Why is J so much better?

Please help......

Very confused

 

[pshepvic]

Yeah it's interesting. I think the problem with PE is that it's not really PE. It's the same uncomfortable seats, with a drinks tray shoved in between. You don't really have much more room or comfort. The food is not really a PE (or above) standard - it's the same pre-packaged rubbish that's available to the rest of the plane, rather than being anything better, you just don't pay for it. And on the corporate fares that we pay, it's only about $40 more than the Corporate Plus fare, although that's still not worth in IMHO.

If they provide a proper J class, then I think it may attract more people, and would be another way for people to burn through points for upgrades, which is a cheap way for the airline to get people to use them.

I like the Virgin America model - F class only has 8 seats, which are extremely comfortable, and the food is excellent. Their next option is Main Cabin Select - almost as good as DJ PE, except they don't block out the middle seat. It still has more legroom, and includes the IFE and food (same offering as Y, but included), and is for the front row of Y and exit rows. Then they could abolish blue zone seating, and have a simpler model. Any exit or front rows unallocated, offer paid/points upgrades at the gate, or provide complimentary to Gold & Silver.

 

[ric_melb]

Firstly I think they need to move to J class as PE is not really PE.
Secondly if you look at the alliances they have formed with Delta, Air New Zealand and Etihad they need J class for connections from J class on those airlines.
Can be more reasons, but there are two.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

So what's the running for the layout of the J class? Same as the current PE but with comfier seats and better food? I suppose I should check the opposition, but what kind of $$$$$$ do you think the J will command?

With the case of Corporate Plus fares......I can never really work out why anyone would choose it. Flexibility sure, but with a price tag that doesn't compute (for me at least). Say I buy the GO! fare for say BNE - MKY at $79 as opposed to fully flexible Corporate Plus at $459. At that difference, I could forfeit and rebook five times before I'm behind the eight ball, I could get the same seat, the same food, the same drinks, I'm a lounge member anyway and I could pay the extra $90 if I needed the extra 9kg of luggage allowance (I usually don't have any luggage at all).

So in a return BNE-MKY flight, the difference in fares represent an extra $760 which could a) buy a year membership to the Lounge (including the application fee), b) pay for an additional 5kg of luggage each way, and c) allow the forfeiture and rebooking of one of the two flights........and still be in front! Am I missing the point? Is there another reason to pay through the nose for essentially the very same product?

 

[nlagalle]

With the case of Corporate Plus fares......I can never really work out why anyone would choose it. Flexibility sure, but with a price tag that doesn't compute (for me at least). Say I buy the GO! fare for say BNE - MKY at $79 as opposed to fully flexible Corporate Plus at $459. At that difference, I could forfeit and rebook five times before I'm behind the eight ball, I could get the same seat, the same food, the same drinks, I'm a lounge member anyway and I could pay the extra $90 if I needed the extra 9kg of luggage allowance (I usually don't have any luggage at all).

not really. You can cancel but have to pay the price of the ticket that is available. And on the day, the Go! fare may not be available - and quite often isn't. so you could well end up paying much more.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

not really. You can cancel but have to pay the price of the ticket that is available. And on the day, the Go! fare may not be available - and quite often isn't. so you could well end up paying much more.

True. Maybe I've just been lucky. I've had to forfeit and rebook many times, but only ever once have I had to take the Flexible fare (never Corporate Plus) with the vast majority either Go! or Blue Saver.

 

[pshepvic]

So what's the running for the layout of the J class? Same as the current PE but with comfier seats and better food? I suppose I should check the opposition, but what kind of $$$$$$ do you think the J will command?

With the case of Corporate Plus fares......I can never really work out why anyone would choose it. Flexibility sure, but with a price tag that doesn't compute (for me at least). Say I buy the GO! fare for say BNE - MKY at $79 as opposed to fully flexible Corporate Plus at $459. At that difference, I could forfeit and rebook five times before I'm behind the eight ball, I could get the same seat, the same food, the same drinks, I'm a lounge member anyway and I could pay the extra $90 if I needed the extra 9kg of luggage allowance (I usually don't have any luggage at all).

So in a return BNE-MKY flight, the difference in fares represent an extra $760 which could a) buy a year membership to the Lounge (including the application fee), b) pay for an additional 5kg of luggage each way, and c) allow the forfeiture and rebooking of one of the two flights........and still be in front! Am I missing the point? Is there another reason to pay through the nose for essentially the very same product?

For my personal travel, I'll always book a cheaper fare, as I can plan ahead and not need the flexibility. And yes, if I do change it, the cost is usually minimal (mind you I'd book QF for personal travel).

But for work, I often am booking only the day before, and for the required flight times I can only get corporate plus (sometimes even a week before that is the case). So it's not a matter of choice. I can change the flights on the day as well, which you can't with a Go fare.

The other benefit is that if I get to the airport and have missed the flight (which happens frequently), they'll move me even after the original flight has departed. They won't do that for the less flexible fares - they'll make you buy a new one, and chances are that on the day there will only be corporate plus fares left. So the $400+ you have "saved" is wiped out, and you've lost the original airfare as well!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The other benefit is that if I get to the airport and have missed the flight (which happens frequently), they'll move me even after the original flight has departed. They won't do that for the less flexible fares - they'll make you buy a new one, and chances are that on the day there will only be corporate plus fares left.

Fare enough.......er, fair enough!

I'm not complaining mind, you troopers who pay through the nose are nicely subsidising us paupers. Without your generous philanthropy, I just might have to pay more :shock:.

Keep up the good work and roll on J.

 

[pshepvic]

Fare enough.......er, fair enough!

I'm not complaining mind, you troopers who pay through the nose are nicely subsidising us paupers. Without your generous philanthropy, I just might have to pay more :shock:.

Keep up the good work and roll on J.

Oh, not my philanthropy ... it's more a courtesy of the company I work for!

If I'm paying, the cheaper the better!

 

[SeaWolf]

I think a lot of the reason that DJ is introducing J class has to do with getting large corporate contracts, which is an area of the market they are aiming at. These days most normal staff will have to fly in Y, but the execs that tend to be the ones making these deals still often fly in J. Since there's no J on DJ they're less inclined to bother with a corporate deal with them.

 

[oz_mark]

I think a lot of the reason that DJ is introducing J class has to do with getting large corporate contracts, which is an area of the market they are aiming at. These days most normal staff will have to fly in Y, but the execs that tend to be the ones making these deals still often fly in J. Since there's no J on DJ they're less inclined to bother with a corporate deal with them.

For the Perth trans-con, some of the mining companies have OH&S policies that require J travel on that length of flight.

 

[stuartfaz]

I think, as some have said, having PE instead of J has stopped DJ getting a fair few corporate contracts, for the simple reason that these policies will stipulate J for certain types of travel (often the travel concerning those approving the policy!), and PE ≠ J.

Having a J class will also allow for easier integration with an alliance, whenever that happens for DJ.

 

[SeaWolf]

For the Perth trans-con, some of the mining companies have OH&S policies that require J travel on that length of flight.

I think the mining companies are the exception, rather than the norm. I know we're all required to fly in Y, even if we're flying to New York, the only exception is the CEO and since he never travels anywhere it's a moot point.

 

[dk4]

Secondly if you look at the alliances they have formed with ... Air New Zealand ... they need J class for connections from J class on those airlines.

Interesting, as NZ has done away with J on (single aisle) Tasman flights and as part of the joint venture appliction included "metal neutrality"; Virgin in the Pacific will need to align their product with NZ's Tasman offer, so interesting to see if Virgin in Australia takes a different approach?

 

[pauly7]

I think the mining companies are the exception, rather than the norm. I know we're all required to fly in Y, even if we're flying to New York, the only exception is the CEO and since he never travels anywhere it's a moot point.

I wouldn't go as far as exception to the norm... All companies I have worked for have pretty much been J for all international, and J for domestic over 4 hours (some 3).

But then again our CEO flies in one of the corporate jets and F commercially - personally I'd take the F option

 

[pshepvic]

I wouldn't go as far as exception to the norm... All companies I have worked for have pretty much been J for all international, and J for domestic over 4 hours (some 3).

But then again our CEO flies in one of the corporate jets and F commercially - personally I'd take the F option

Hmm maybe a few years ago, but I think the GFC and budget cutting by a lot of organisations has changed this. Our rules are Y for ALL domestic (and that's kind of been enforced anyway, as our airline is DJ) and only J for international over 5 hours! (So NZ is still Y!)

 

[StevePER]

Our travel policy allows for flights over 5 hours to be in J for evening/night flights, but of course this doesn't include SYD-PER (5h05).

 

[Moopere]

Our travel policy allows for flights over 5 hours to be in J for evening/night flights, but of course this doesn't include SYD-PER (5h05).

I think ours is >=6 hours to get out of paying domestic J. Internationally >6 hours is always J and is QF more often then not. I suspect senior management flys J regardless of travel distance.

I really do think its a corporate account thing as others have suggested. Whilst we may all be happy to personally spend hours carefully planning good value flights, I don't see the same level of detail going on with corporate planning. DJ doesn't get included much by us because they are not full service and therefore are a 'hassle' to deal with when you need J seats.

 

[Justchecking]

The failure of PE was related to the fact that it wasn't really a much, much better seat but the cost was exponentially more than an economy blue zone fare. That coupled with the likelihood of scoring a PE seat anyway if the flight was full, or having to sit next to an economy pax if the flight was full just made it a product not really worth paying for. It was just a very expensive Y class product with the 'sometimes' perk that you won't have anyone sitting right next to you.

I imagine the idea behind a full J class product is that it's worth paying extra for. In J class on most airlines you get, a dedicated cabin, dedicated crew trained in better service than most, your own toilet, better food and a much, much nicer seat.

 

[JohnK]

For the Perth trans-con, some of the mining companies have OH&S policies that require J travel on that length of flight.

Oh the poor mining workers. After drinking themselves silly in the the lounge before a flight they need some where comfortable to sit/sleep on the flight. Lucky how OH&S covers their drinking habits....