Jetstar Hong Kong- A Stronger Qantas?

[farmer]

Hi all,
Well today the truth is out. The Board of Qantas is to be renamed the "Jetstar " Board. In August last year we were promised a "stronger " Qantas. Routes were to be restructed and a new premium airline launched in Asia to help stregthen mainline Qantas international operations.

What did we get!!! Despite repeated earlier denials- now Joyce is saying the new Qantas Premium international airline- Red Q or whatever is dead. Was it ever real or just a giant smoke screen that we would fall for while the real plan was being implemented.

Instead did we get more investment in new planes for Qantas domestic and international- some 787's or 777's ???? No ----we get a $200M investment in Jetstar Hong Kong!! What did Qantas get- oh yes some refurbished 20 year old 747's that Singapore and their competitors have just got rid of-wow!!! What excitement.

All Qantas Frequent Flyers can look forward to is redeeming rewards on older and older Qantas aircraft or BA planes overseas. You could of course travel in bright shiny planes on Jetstar. I love buying my food and wine on Jetstar- such quality- such a reaonsable price.

I can hardly wait for the next instalment of the " Last Days of Qantas"-What a story- What intrigue- What a pack of lies.


Farmer

 

[mannej]

Sorry, but the refurbished 747's are hardly 20 years old. Even the Refurbished RR 747's are the younger 3 of the fleet from memory.

 

[farmer]

Sorry, but the refurbished 747's are hardly 20 years old. Even the Refurbished RR 747's are the younger 3 of the fleet from memory.

Hi Manneji,
The CASA Aircraft register as of today lists 13 Boeing 747 aircraft with Qantas as the registration holder and operator. Their year of manufactuer is as follows;

OJC. OJB , OJF, OJE,OJA- 1989- 23 years old.

OJD- 1990- 22 years old.

OJM, OJL, OJN- 1991-21years old.

OEE, OEF-2002-10 years old.

OEJ, OEI- 2003- 9 years old

The total age of the 747 fleet is 238 years or an average of 18.3years.

You need to critically assess the spin coming out of Qantas management these days.

Farmer

 

[oz_mark]

Hi Manneji,
The CASA Aircraft register as of today lists 13 Boeing 747 aircraft with Qantas as the registration holder and operator. Their year of manufactuer is as follows;

OJC. OJB , OJF, OJE,OJA- 1989- 23 years old.

OJD- 1990- 22 years old.

OJM, OJL, OJN- 1991-21years old.

OEE, OEF-2002-10 years old.

OEJ, OEI- 2003- 9 years old

The total age of the 747 fleet is 238 years or an average of 18.3years.

You need to critically assess the spin coming out of Qantas management these days.

Farmer

You're missing a whole bunch of aircraft. How about, just as examples

VH-OEG 2002
VH-OEH 2003

VH-OJS, OJT, OJU 1999

You'll find that there are 9 in the fleet that have build dates from 1999 onwards.

 

[simongr]

I also think the A380s are fairly new...

 

[TheInsider]

You need to critically assess the spin coming out of Qantas management these days.

Farmer

You are critising the age of the refurbished 747's

oh yes some refurbished 20 year old 747's

Simply none of the A380 style B747's are the 'old' aircraft. Your argument is not valid.

I love buying my food and wine on Jetstar- such quality- such a reaonsable price.

You are travelling on a LCC, what do you expect. Also Jetstar's food prices are quite reasonable compared to some airport outlets and other LCC's (and even 'Full Service' airlines) around the world

 

[mannej]

Sorry farmer but check the 9 747's that are getting the make over and get back to me.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Now, now, folks, don't let the facts stand in the way of a good anti-QF conspiracy theory!

Oh, and Allan Joyce shot JFK ..... that's why he likes Dallas .......

 

[dk4]

Obviously the view from the Qantas boardroom -

moving a lean/mean Jetstar to the front, and leaving old/overburdened Qantas in the background

sit back, relax and ENJOY a new Flounge in HKG soon when connecting with Jetstar...

 

[JohnPhelan]

And by the way, QF currently operates 23 B747s.

 

[dajop]

Obviously the view from the Qantas boardroom -

moving a lean/mean Jetstar to the front, and leaving old/overburdened Qantas in the background

And not too mention China Eastern in the middle....

(was this just a coincidence? Or did you deliberately choose to have MU pictured as well, with Jetstar HK being a JV between MU & QF ?)

 

[dk4]

China Eastern - A Stronger Qantas?

And not too mention China Eastern in the middle....

You know, the most interesting quote, that I have found in all this, is what China Eastern (“the Company”) told the HKEX - http://www.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2012/0325/LTN20120325212.pdf -

The establishment of the Joint Venture by the Company and Jetstar, a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas, will deepen the corporation relationship between the Company and Qantas which will lay a good foundation for building an extensive mutual trust and establishing a comprehensive and broad corporation for both the Company and Qantas in the future.

Now allowing for poor English translations confusing "corporation" and “cooperation”, one wonders what “comprehensive and broad” action is in the "future", given that this is only the "foundation"?

What is clear, is that QF didn’t get what it wanted from CX (if it really ever wanted anything other than a fight). Presumably they always needed a mainland ally (and one fully supported by Beijing) rather than a marginalised player encumbered by the out-of-favour Swire Group.

Beijing obviously sees some value hitching up (in our region) with an Australian carrier on multiple economic (and political) levels, and it’s also interesting that a Shanghai based business has been allowed to do it. (Whereas the Beijing based airline has been tasked with more closely controlling the Swire Group.) AND the testing ground chosen for the first step, has been decided as Hong Kong.

A seating for two, with a view to Hong Kong.

 

[simongr]

sit back, relax and ENJOY a new Flounge in HKG soon when connecting with Jetstar...

Or connecting to a QF flight to SYD/MEL or connecting to a BA flight to Europe or connecting to a CX flight to everywhere...

 

[yo yo ma]

Instead did we get more investment in new planes for Qantas domestic and international- some 787's or 777's ???? No ----we get a $200M investment in Jetstar Hong Kong!! What did Qantas get- oh yes some refurbished 20 year old 747's that Singapore and their competitors have just got rid of-wow!!! What excitement.

The sharemarket liked the news - QAN put on over 2% in a down market.

All Qantas Frequent Flyers can look forward to is redeeming rewards on older and older Qantas aircraft or BA planes overseas. You could of course travel in bright shiny planes on Jetstar. I love buying my food and wine on Jetstar- such quality- such a reaonsable price

Luckily we live in Australia and you are not forced to redeem anything. I use my points (YMMV) for international flights on the new A380, so please don't speak for "all QFF". I haven't purchased food on JQ but don't have a problem purchasing it. Again, you have a choice to BYO food, not buy it or to fly another carrier.

 

[oz_mark]

The sharemarket liked the news - QAN put on over 2% in a down market.

Not surprising really. The problem with a catchphrase of "a Stronger Qantas", is to figure out which Qantas is being talked about. There is Qantas the company, and there is Qantas the airline. The announcement was good for Qantas, the company, not so good for Qantas, the airline.

 

[farmer]

Not surprising really. The problem with a catchphrase of "a Stronger Qantas", is to figure out which Qantas is being talked about. There is Qantas the company, and there is Qantas the airline. The announcement was good for Qantas, the company, not so good for Qantas, the airline.

You have hit the nail on the head. When Joyce last year was talking about building a stronger Qantas we thought he was talking about a stronger "Qantas" airline.

It now appears he was talking about a stronger company Qantas by investing almost exclusively in Jetstar the airline offshore.

The facts can't be avoided. The old Board ordered 20 A 380's to renew the international fleet. The current Board cut this to 12 and subsitituted 8 older ( 10-20 years ) refrubished 747's. Yesterday Singapore Airlines flew its last 747 to Australia. Why becuase they are not fuel efficient and have higher maintenance costs. This makes Qantas International less competitive because they are still using 747's that can't compete on operating costs.

The 787's originally ordered for Qantas International are going to - you guessed it Jetstar. More fuel efficient, lower operating and maintnence costs.

I wonder why Qantas International is not cost competitive??

Farmer

 

[TheStudent]

As far as I understood - Qantas the company was trying to capitalise on using Jetstar in Asia and Qantas the airline everywhere else. The only problem is that in recent times all the growth in the world’s airline industry has been in Asia. I don't think that its wrong of Qantas company to try to cash in on this.

That said it’s disappointing to see management just let the Qantas airline international fleet fall behind all those of its competitors, and the decision to use 747’s when presumably A380’s are more profitable is certainly odd. Sometimes I wonder if Qantas the company is using Qantas the airline to try and make money, or if they want it to fall behind Jetstar so that they have ammunition to use in an eventual challenge to the Qantas Sale Act. Its recent actions would almost suggest that is it

 

[farmer]

Hi All,
This statement from a contributor to comments on Plane Talking says it much clearer than I have.
hudson fysh
Posted March 27, 2012 at 12:59 am | Permalink
Qantas has in effect subsidised the startup of every Jetstar franchise from Australia, Singapore, Japan and now Hong Kong.
That is why the average age of the Qantas mainline fleet is approximately fifteen years old and Jetstar’s is only four. It has been a slow ten year diversion of capital away from Qantas to Jetstar.
It is why Qantas International finds itself in the position it is ultimately in now.
Singapore airlines just flew their last 747 service as they replace them with new 777 aircraft that burn 40% less fuel and with a new product offering.
Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, Cathay and Singapore all share this advantage.
Whilst to be fair they have a tax and depreciation advantages, their fleet age, efficiency and newer product are the key.
Meanwhile Jetstar have a fleet of new A320′s and will soon have new 787′s, handing back the older A330′s back to Qantas mainline just as heavy maintenance is due.
If Alan Joyce has managed to convince the media and investors in Australia that Jetstar’s franchises make money from very little capital invested, then perhaps China Eastern have bought it hook line and sinker. Perhaps they will ultimately provide much of the capital and risk, just as Qantas has done.
In Australia Jetstar has been fortunate to not compete with Qantas on many routes that were previously flown by Qantas mainline.Qantas no longer flies to many destinations that are now only flown by Jetstar.
Passengers simply have no choice than to fly with Jetstar if they are Qantas frequent flyers or have a Qantas corporate account.
Jetstar also benefitted from significant feeder traffic from Qantas International and domestic. Turn on nine news at 6pm or pick up the Telegraph and you see Jetstar advertising and not Qantas.
The question remains given the alternatives such as Cathay, Dragonair and Hong Kong Express, will Jetstar Hong Kong really enjoy the same competitive advantages that it has in Australia. "


It the mean time Qantas the airline is cannabilised and dies.

Farmer.

 

[yohy?!]

China Eastern have bought it hook line and sinker. Perhaps they will ultimately provide much of the capital and risk, just as Qantas has done.

Highly unlikely that MU is the stooge in this equation, they are effectively getting QF to subsidise their price war with the other mainland Chinese Carriers, CX/KA and Hainan Group.

 

[oz_mark]

Highly unlikely that MU is the stooge in this equation, they are effectively getting QF to subsidise their price war with the other mainland Chinese Carriers, CX/KA and Hainan Group.

Can't really see MU ceding routes to Jetstar in the same way that Qantas handed routes to Jetstar here.