Middle exit seats in PE on A380 - child??

[Katie]

Hi,

We have our PE A380 seats allocated already, even though we're not ticketed yet. Yay! for PS FF status.
Will be ticketed by the end of the week. We've been allocated row 35 over and 36 back, DEF (2 adults and Miss 3yo). I was hoping to try to get 38 DEF, but at the moment it's showing up blocked on the QF website. (to LAX on 30/4, home on 14/5). The whole row is classed as an exit row, I believe.

I know for the Y exit row payment scheme, QF won't allow a child or infant under 15 years to sit in those seats. But does anyone have experience of a child in row 38 of the A380 - it's the middle of the plane, so no assistance required to open doors, etc, as the window-side seats are there. I was hoping for the extra bit of leg room. I'm ery greedy for leg room, but too stingy to pay J prices.

Although the window side seats might be good for Miss 3, she's an extroverted, exploring type, and will want to meet & greet the entire plane personally. I figure the middle three seats are better for us, and it'll be 'easier' to keep her contained to her seat ... although if we apply for J upgrades and a miracle happens and we score them, we'll be in some kind of 2-1 config anyway.

Mr Katie is QP-NB, I'm QP-PS, and Miss 3 is just NB. I will ring QF to ask, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone had seen a child in this row before.

 

[jsd]

Thats a really tricky one to give a definite answer to. The question remains as to whether you would be relied upon to open the left hand side door or not or if this would be left up to whoever is seated in row 36 (which i doubt), In all honesty i would call QF and ask them for their opinion, the main problem is that there is no seats in front of the left door so i dont know who has to open the door

See for yourself:

SeatGuru Seat Map Qantas Airways Airbus A380-800 (388)






Cheers,

Josh

 

[markis10]

CASA advise airlines that passengers should not be under 16 in any part of an exit row, regardless of whether its near a window or not, and that all passengers must listen to the special briefing and acknowledge they understand, which legally you cannot do if you are under 16.

The Middle Rows are still an exit row as one exit may not be usable.

 

[milehighclub]

Unfortunately she cannot sit there, as she is too young, and exit row restrictions apply too all seats in an exit row.

Same applies for row 24 in business class as well - no one under 16

 

[737]

Hi,

Markis10 is correct... The middle section is still considered the exit row. Qantas Standard Operating Procedures state that if your row of seats is in what is to be considered the crossover for the exits, or directly next to the exits (which 38D,E,F are in the crossover) then they must satisfy the exit row requirements, which of course the young one does not.

The only way you could get extra room would be to pick a bulkhead seat that is away from an exit, whether they are open to you or not is another thing :?:

You will notice dedicated flight attendants for those doors, and there won't be a briefing for any passengers in the exit rows, however all passengers in those rows need to satisfy the exit requirements.

Sorry to bring you bad news.

 

[Skoogle]

I would call Qantas. I recall hearing about the A380 exit rows may be different, where pax are not responsible for providing assistance.

CASA does not currently have any regulations, (other than for passengers who are handicapped and for infants), specifically related to who may be seated at an over-wing exit row on an aircraft.

CASA does, however, recognise that a passenger seated in an emergency exit row may be called upon to assist crew members in the unlikely event of an emergency evacuation and provides advice to airlines on the criteria for appropriate passengers to be seated in over-wing exit rows.


This includes:

• able-bodied
• a minimum of 15 years old
• can understand and converse in English
• are not travelling with an infant
• are not travelling with someone who requires their assistance in an emergency
• are willing to provide assistance to cabin crew and other passengers in the event of an emergency.

Cabin crew can move a passenger if they do not meet the criteria and passengers can also asked to be moved to another seat if they are uncomfortable with the requirements of being an over-wing exit row passenger.


CASA is currently drafting new regulations in Part 121, which will contain specific regulations regarding exit rows.

 

[markis10]

I would call Qantas. I recall hearing about the A380 exit rows may be different, where pax are not responsible for providing assistance.

Whether the passenger is expected to be called on to render assistance or not is irrelevent, an exit row has special requirements for its occupants in that there is an expectation that they will be able to clear the area quickly to allow for the maximum egress rate of passengers.

The loss of US 1493 in LA in 1991 is a clear example of why such rules are in place where many fatalities could have been prevented by having an extra clear exit row, in that case it was two passengers arguing but you can see the point.

 

[milehighclub]

As 737 mentioned passengers are not required to provide assistance as all doors have flight attendants and as such the passengers are not briefed, but they are still exit rows.

And even though CASA does not have any official policy - only advice, Qantas has made it a legal policy and as such the Qantas policy will always apply when it is stricter than a CASA policy

 

[Skoogle]

Whether the passenger is expected to be called on to render assistance or not is irrelevent, an exit row has special requirements for its occupants in that there is an expectation that they will be able to clear the area quickly to allow for the maximum egress rate of passengers.

I didn't read that in the CASA regulations.

 

[markis10]

I didn't read that in the CASA regulations.

CASA dont have any such regulations as you posted in an earlier post, they are yet to put into law the same requirements the FAA put into FAR Part 121:

"The person is less than 15 years of age or lacks the capacity to perform one or more of the applicable functions" & " Pass expeditiously through the emergency exit"

Given the OP is travelling to LAX the FAR's would apply equally as much as the local CAR's, that FAR was changed in 1995, 4 years after the LAX incident, locally we are still waiting.

 

[737]

I would call Qantas. I recall hearing about the A380 exit rows may be different, where pax are not responsible for providing assistance.

A380 Ops Manual states that on a "Wide Body Aircraft with Crossover Aisle Between Doors" the exit row restrictions apply to all seated in that row, so the A380 isn't different to any other aircraft in the QF fleet.

As mentioned above as well, row 24 in Business is the same.

Not sure whether these are CASA rules or whether they are Qantas enforced, but this is what the Ops Manuals says for us C/C. Airports have these flagged in their system, so they 'should' not assign these seats to someone who doesn't fit the requirements.

 

[Skoogle]

A380 Ops Manual states that on a "Wide Body Aircraft with Crossover Aisle Between Doors" the exit row restrictions apply to all seated in that row, so the A380 isn't different to any other aircraft in the QF fleet.

Thanks for the clarification. As Part 121, referred above, seems to exclude middle seats as an exit row by the action of entering an aisle.

(i) Exit seat means --
(A) Each seat having direct access to an exit; and,
(B) Each seat in a row of seats though which passengers would have to pass to gain access to an exit, from the first seat inboard of the exit to the first aisle inboard of the exit.
(C) A passenger seat having "direct access" means a seat from which a passenger can proceed directly to the exit without entering an aisle or passing around an obstruction.

 

[Katie]

Thank you all, I might call and ask, and expect to be turned down. I might then ask for row 34 if there isn't an infant on the flight.

I also hadn't realised that row 38 doesn't have A/B seats, thanks for pointing that out.

I have had differing exit row experiences in the past on a QF 747 BNE-LAX-BNE. I found out I was pregnant with Miss 3 while in the US for work, and was able to use "I'm pregnant, higher risk of DVT, please give me an exit row" for my flight home. Tried to request an exit row 8-10 weeks later on my next US trip, and was told I couldn't sit there because I was pregnant and therefore obviously not able to open the door.
But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

 

[markis10]

Thank you all, I might call and ask, and expect to be turned down. I might then ask for row 34 if there isn't an infant on the flight.

I also hadn't realised that row 38 doesn't have A/B seats, thanks for pointing that out.

I have had differing exit row experiences in the past on a QF 747 BNE-LAX-BNE. I found out I was pregnant with Miss 3 while in the US for work, and was able to use "I'm pregnant, higher risk of DVT, please give me an exit row" for my flight home. Tried to request an exit row 8-10 weeks later on my next US trip, and was told I couldn't sit there because I was pregnant and therefore obviously not able to open the door.
But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Did you need an extender seat belt, they are not permitted in exit rows!

 

[Katie]

Did you need an extender seat belt, they are not permitted in exit rows!

Nope, the first flight I was 5 or so weeks pregnant, and the second set of flights I would have been somwehere around the 12-15 week mark. My tummy didn't pop out until we went to Singapore for the Last Trip Before Child, which I think was around 20ish weeks (BA J on reward). Checking in at Singapore, my tummy was apparently large enough that the J check-in CSR wanted to know if my doctor had given me permission to travel. I told him I wasn't that pregnant yet, and there'd been no questions 5 days earlier when we flew to Singapore. I guess I probably looked huge compared to local women, as I'm rather tall. But I think even on those flights, I didn't need a seatbelt extender.