Needed to be said….Mentour Pilot discusses the fall of QF

[jb747]

On of the best of the aviation youtubers turns his attention to Alan Joyce, and his “legacy”.

 

[RooFlyer]

Pretty good coverage, but he overlooked the Frequent Flyer program shortcomings and also Joyce's instant fleet grounding, one of the most compete legal acts of coughry against customers I can think of.

 

[offshore171]

Joyce's instant fleet grounding, one of the most compete legal acts of coughry against customers I can think of.

The grounding was one of the few things I didn't have a problem with.

The public were subjected to years of repeated CFMEU style tactics, usually targeting holiday seasons or long weekends. Enough was enough.

It was a dramatic move, but it brought an end to years of this idiocy.

 

[Himeno]

On of the best of the aviation youtubers turns his attention to Alan Joyce, and his “legacy”.

are you "boeingdriver29" over in the comments on that video?

 

[RooFlyer]

The grounding was one of the few things I didn't have a problem with.

Depends I guess if you were one of the thousands on the taxiways and were just dumped back in the terminal, say at LAX, with no prospect of onward journey. I wasn't - I was flying United that day, but 10 of the Aussies I was at a conference with were.

 

[drron]

Though those of us who were directly affected by the instant fleet grounding are a bit ambivalent about the grounding. Agree that it did generally reduce the frequency of union stoppages but on the other hand causing chaos for passengers affected. Fortunately we have a very competent TA who had organised a substitute flight before we had heard about the grounding. My feelings about Qantas were already a bit negative but this event moved me from the avoid if possible camp to the never again camp for international travel.

 

[Gold Member]

Pretty good coverage, but he overlooked the Frequent Flyer program shortcomings and also Joyce's instant fleet grounding, one of the most compete legal acts of coughry against customers I can think of.

The video is well done but overlooks a lot more than that (perhaps for the sake of brevity and target audience) which we’ve all suffered from in some shape or form.

We have overwhelming evidence of Qantas’ corporate greed, corruption, coercion and other unconscionable and disgusting behaviours. Qantas’ reputation has rightfully been shattered and now ranks as the second least trusted brand in Australia. And yet we still have a number of seasoned travellers and “Commentators” here on AFF that sing Qantas’ praises and defend them with full knowledge of the situation. We can’t all be cozied up Australian Government sponsored Chairman's Lounge members barred from speaking the truth about Qantas here on AFF, can we? There’s a clear disconnect for some of us.

 

[robolb]

Very good video. A sad story........

 

[elanshin]

His overall gist was on point, a few minor details ofr but grand scheme of things I'd say on point.

With that said, this is sort of a look and see period for QF. Will they change course with VH (or the next CEO)? It's still too early to tell but if it is QF turning a leaf then this would generally be the best "honeymoon" period.

 

[CaptJCool]

16 million members.
26 million in Australia
5 million under 15 years of age
That’s a pretty whooping % of the Australian Adult population enrolled all vying for those 2 F seats a day on the A380 to London

 

[robolb]

16 million members.
26 million in Australia
5 million under 15 years of age
That’s a pretty whooping % of the Australian Adult population enrolled all vying for those 2 F seats a day on the A380 to London

I think he underestimated the number of overseas members.

But Yes...........it's a bit of a lottery.

 

[CaptJCool]

I think he underestimated the number of overseas members.

But Yes...........it's a bit of a lottery.

What’s the likely overseas members volume ?

 

[elanshin]

I think he underestimated the number of overseas members.

But Yes...........it's a bit of a lottery.

What’s the likely overseas members volume ?

There's probably not as many overseas members as people think. There are however lots of Aussies holding QFF accounts that don't have very much activity on it.

You get it for free from various sources, for access to something or family member told you to sign up so you did.

Active engaged members is likely one stat we'll never get.

 

[robolb]

What’s the likely overseas members volume ?

Hard to tell. But as a 'reverse' example, I'm sure many members here have overseas memberships.
I have Emirates, Thai, Malaysian, (I think), Iberia......probably some others.

Of course a lot of them might no longer be alive!
Might be total memberships ever issued as opposed to 'active' memberships.

Then there are family members who don't actually buy tickets.
My wife, kids, niece are all QF members, so they can scrounge my points

 

[moa999]

It's a national sport to bag Qantas and it's Execs. And for the media anything, positive or negative, about Qantas get clicks and interactions.
And Joyce being short, gay and Irish copped far more than anyone else.

At the time Joyce took the reigns at Qantas and Borghetti moved to Virgin, Qantas was bloated and high cost and Virgin growing quickly and starting to take corporate share.

Over a decade later, Borghetti is gone and Covid sends Virgin into insolvency with shareholders losing everything (thankfully due to a quirk of its structure, FFs didn't). While Qantas survives.

Certainly don't agree with everything under his reign but overall think he ran a fairly steady ship through some pretty troubled times. For me the outsourcing of the call centre to unempowered agents was the worst and the NP food continues to go downhill .. personally was disappointed to lose the JASAs but I can see why they were removed.

But ultimately airlines need to be profitable to invest in new aircraft.. and we are finally seeing this domestically with the 220s and coming 321XLRs, plus the Sunrise 350s.

This week Qantas share price topped $7 for the first time ever, so the market has made a pretty clear judgement over Joyce and Hudson.

 

[Human]

I avoid Qantas whenever I can and in fact I don't think I've paid them for flight for almost a decade (though I've flown many times with them using points and/or when someone else has paid). But every now and then the highly uncomfortable thought occurs to me...

What if Joyce did the right thing by putting shareholders first and treating customers and employees like scum? What if he did exactly what was needed for Qantas to survive?

I repeat: because of the above I avoid Qantas as much as possible. But I can't help but wonder...

 

[oz_mark]

This week Qantas share price topped $7 for the first time ever, so the market has made a pretty clear judgement over Joyce and Hudson.

The market is not the customer base.
The problem overall was the focus on the market and boosting that as much as possible at the expense of their workers, their customers and their suppliers.

 

[jb747]

are you "boeingdriver29" over in the comments on that video?

No. And the chances are that anyone who claims to be a Boeing driver, isn’t.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The video is well done but overlooks a lot more than that (perhaps for the sake of brevity and target audience) which we’ve all suffered from in some shape or form.

We have overwhelming evidence of Qantas’ corporate greed, corruption, coercion and other unconscionable and disgusting behaviours. Qantas’ reputation has rightfully been shattered and now ranks as the second least trusted brand in Australia. And yet we still have a number of seasoned travellers and “Commentators” here on AFF that sing Qantas’ praises and defend them with full knowledge of the situation. We can’t all be cozied up Australian Government sponsored Chairman's Lounge members barred from speaking the truth about Qantas here on AFF, can we? There’s a clear disconnect for some of us.

Has anyone defended the corporate culture? Engineers, crews, operational and front line staff, yes. But i don’t think that’s extended to the leadership?

 

[moa999]

The market is not the customer base.

Agreed. But long term it judges on it.

If poor management angers passengers, or employees, they walk, and in a high fixed cost industry your profit and share price goes to the toilet very quickly.

The best airlines globally make a few cents per dollar over the long-term with ups and downs along the way. Many don't make that and end up disappearing when a bad year comes along.